The Roy Kronk Connection- Opening Statements-Kronk takes the stand 2011.06.28

Hot Dogs

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Kronk himself told LE that what he "found" in December was the same thing he saw in August.
 

juskiss

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I haven't read the entire thread so this may be repeating something already mentioned.

But I said before that if Kronk took the remains, kept them, and then planted them so he could then pretend to find them, then why did the expert botanist find that there were months worth of vegetation growing through the rib cage? And I don't know what Kronk would have had to gain by waiting instead of reporting it right away?

Doesn't jive.
 

DawnTCB

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OK I found summary here around 3382-3384. It's all coming back to me now.

The co-worker Chris did not recall anything about a conversation about skulls or bags. He did remember first talking about the missing child, MR saying this might be a good place to hide a body, and then MR going into the woods to urinate and sometime in there they found the dead snake. This is more in line with what I was recalling - first they talk about this being a good place to hide a body and then within minutes MR says he did...? No wonder the other coworker thought he was joking.

I think it is interesting on 3385 where it says "After not hearing anything about the discovery of a body on the news, " MR called back the next day. This is the part that bugs me. LE sent someone out to check out his tip within 30 minutes of his call. For all MR knew, it turned out to be nothing. I mean what are the odds that this thing that seemed "out of place" to him in the woods, woods he was seeing for the very first time, woods filled with trash and debris of all sizes and shapes, would end up being the remains of the child they were just talking about? Or remains at all, for that matter. He certainly did not seem confident in his first 911 call that it was a body. So he shouldn't have been surprised if it turned out to be nothing.

But he knew it was a skull. So he knew that if they checked his tip and didn't find anything odd, they were wrong and needed to check again.

So HD, can you refresh me on how you think he knew it was there on 8/11?
 

Hot Dogs

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So HD, can you refresh me on how you think he knew it was there on 8/11?


Because he told his coworkers that he is seeing a skull. Not just a suspicious or unusual thing... a skull.
 

DawnTCB

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No, I know that part. :)

Do you think he knew there was a skull there prior to coincidentally walking into the woods and seeing something he thought was a skull?

I do. I just haven't quite figured out how he knew.
 

Hot Dogs

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I think he was in those woods before August 11th and found Caylee there before August 11th.
 

DawnTCB

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I think he was in those woods before August 11th and found Caylee there before August 11th.

Me too. So do you think he found her before 8/11 by sheer chance or was he given a tip?
 

Hot Dogs

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I don't think he was given a tip, but I can't rule it out. I think it was by chance but the chances were improved because of the proximity to the Anthony house. Kronk himself said it was a likely place to put a body.

What is puzzling is why she was placed so close to the house and essentially very easy to find. Caylee wasn't buried and there was no outward attempt to conceal her other than the laundry bag. But a canvas laundry bag that is obviously stuffed with something is going to attract the attention of many people - even those who would not specifically be looking for a missing little girl.
 

Steely Dan

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Within minutes of going into the woods on August 11th with his coworkers nearby he said to them, "Hey guys. I see a skull in here." That is very specific and dramatic.

IMO, he already knew there was a body (with visible skull) there before August 11th. He pretended to discover it at that moment but he had already done so on a previous occasion.


Thanks for clarifying that. I must also tell you that your avatar is hysterical!!!
 

DawnTCB

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Well, now I have always leaned towards a tip.

I think you are correct that MR did not want to be the one to find Caylee, at least not without a witness. So it would make sense that he would go back later with his coworkers. And saying aloud to his coworkers that he saw a skull would provide him enough back-up that he could call LE and tell them he found the skull while with witnesses, not alone.

But I am very skeptical that the things he saw in August were the same things he “found” in December. The police officer was SIX FEET AWAY from his August find. It is hard to imagine a skeleton that is above ground and partially or barely covered by a bag that is six feet away could not be identified as a skeleton when he is being directed to look right at it. Yes, I know he was later let go over this incident. But I am sitting here looking at my coworker’s pile of belongings she is readying to take home that is right at 6.5 feet from me (don’t ask about the crazy looks she just gave me when I asked to measure it :rolleyes: ). There is a purse with a jacket over it. I can also see from here that the jacket is pushed out in the back more than just what the purse would do. There is something behind the purse which I cannot see from this seat. But from the shape of the jacket, I can tell that it is something cylindrical and about 8 inches in diameter and about 3-4 inches tall. Without going over there, I am assuming she has some kind of Tupperware to take home. I can also see a tiny silver tip poking out from behind her purse. I can tell from here that is a button to an umbrella, even though I can’t see any portion but the silver button. I have to think that if I was 6 feet away from an actual skeleton, even one partially covered up with a garbage bag and plant growth, I would be able to tell that it was a skeleton. Especially if I was there to look for a skeleton.

I don’t believe he was in the same spot, looking at the same bag and round white thing in August as he was in December. In December, he was alone and had more time to check multiple bags before he reported it. In August, he picked one he thought might be it, and it just wasn’t. MR himself said he could not be 100% sure it was the same spot and same items since the land was dry and looked different.

I believe, although it has been two years since I thought about this one, that we determined the skull would not have been “white” in August anyway. First it was covered in hair, and then skeletal remains only get bleached white after drying out for a long time in direct sunlight, which this area was not. I think he said what he thought would get LE there quicker… not unlike CA, now that I think about it :). And I think he thought he saw the actual bag, based on a tip about the pavers. In December, he had a chance to look around and found the real bag. And the real bag turned out to be neither gray nor metallic silver nor vinyl nor like a pool cover as he had previously reported, but it didn’t matter at that point because it was the right bag.

In the meantime, someone gave the same tip to the PIs. It could have been MR but I don't think so. I think both tips originated from ICA, but took two different paths to the final recipient.
 

Mariah

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MOO..could JB be planting the idea for appeal based on ineffective assistance of counsel? Despite the lawyers on various news channels saying otherwise I think JB's suggestions of what happened are like science fiction. True he doesn't have to prove anything....but this story only convinces me for sure ICA is guilty..why else would the DT tell such a wild tale? They have nothing else to go with. I don't believe it and I don't know anyone who would.
 

Steely Dan

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DawnTCB, you have to remember there was a lot more vegetation obscuring the bag back in August. Also, I think the bag moved during the tropical storm a bit. JMO
 

Hot Dogs

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But I am very skeptical that the things he saw in August were the same things he "found" in December. The police officer was SIX FEET AWAY from his August find. It is hard to imagine a skeleton that is above ground and partially or barely covered by a bag that is six feet away could not be identified as a skeleton when he is being directed to look right at it.

It was partially submerged in water and may not have looked like a body at all from 6 feet away. But I think that Kronk had already closely inspected it before August 11th and was 100% certain that it was a body. He knew that if the officer would wade out there and look straight down at it (and maybe also move a bag) he would also see that it is a body.

I don’t believe he was in the same spot, looking at the same bag and round white thing in August as he was in December. In December, he was alone and had more time to check multiple bags before he reported it. In August, he picked one he thought might be it, and it just wasn’t. MR himself said he could not be 100% sure it was the same spot and same items since the land was dry and looked different.

We have to disagree because I think he had actually seen Caylee's remains there before August 11th and that's why he told his coworkers that he can see a skull. If one of his buddies would have suddenly waded into the water where Kronk had indicated they would have found it right then and there... because he already knew it was there.

I believe, although it has been two years since I thought about this one, that we determined the skull would not have been “white” in August anyway.

I think the "round white thing" that he indicated to the dispatcher wasn't the skull. I think it was the Whitney Design laundry bag with the round wire rim. See below. He knew that if an officer found that laundry bag they would find Caylee.
 

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Hot Dogs

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Going back to when Kronk met LE at the swamp... IMO, the reason why Kronk "let" that officer blow it off and walk away was because he had only one other alternative at that moment. He would have had to say "Listen, I know there is a body in that water right where I am pointing. I've already walked out there previously and looked directly at it with my own eyes. I guarantee you will find it too if you just get your boots wet."

He didn't want to say that to the officer. So he let it go. Well, no he didn't let it go.
 

DawnTCB

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Well, the Crimeline summary says he reported something "little, white. and round". That laundry hamper seems kind of large for that kind of description to me. :waitasec: In my mind I was picturing something more skull-sized.

I wonder how obvious he would have been poking around in there prior to 8/11. I know I remember some folks up around the school who made the news around that time because they were suspicious. People were on high alert, looking for anyone out of place.

Then, of course, I wonder how he was so "lucky" to get trained on that route and happened to go on that route for the first time that day and they happened to have lunch in that exact spot. This makes me think he might have been selected for the tip because of his job in that vicinity.

I think this is all going to come out soon. I believe LE knows all about it through their talks with him after 12/11. I think they were able to corroborate his story very easily and that is why he was able to be cleared so quickly. Wonder how long until MR is being called to the stand. I guess nearer to the end if they are going chronologically.
 

KPCrimeNY

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Going back to when Kronk met LE at the swamp... IMO, the reason why Kronk "let" that officer blow it off and walk away was because he had only one other alternative at that moment. He would have had to say "Listen, I know there is a body in that water right where I am pointing. I've already walked out there previously and looked directly at it with my own eyes. I guarantee you will find it too if you just get your boots wet."

He didn't want to say that to the officer. So he let it go. Well, no he didn't let it go.

First off thanks Hot Dogs for you replies and your knowledge on this matter.

I feel that Roy Kronk just happening to go there and find the body is odd. Especially when other searchers have been in that area and then the PI's that went straight to that area.

I do have some issues though.
If I found that body and a sherriff came and looked from however far or did not want to get his boots wet. If I had nothing to hide I would have been insisting that he go and take the closer look that I had. Especially if I knew there was a body in that bag.

The other issue I have is that if the Anthonys had recieved a tip that the body was there from whomever. Why not march down there and get your grandkid. Again, with nothing to hide. Hell go get her!

All just my opinions here and not attacking anybody.
 

DawnTCB

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The other issue I have is that if the Anthonys had recieved a tip that the body was there from whomever. Why not march down there and get your grandkid. Again, with nothing to hide. Hell go get her!

I think CA & GA knew that if they found the body, it would implicate ICA. Since they supported her 100% (at least until this trial started) they could not do anything themselves with that information. I think they needed someone to go get it and chose the PIs, and chose at least one PI who would go along with the story of the psychic. I think they wanted the body out of those woods. But their house was under 24 hour webcam surveillance and people followed them everywhere... they couldn't very well just go get her without having to disclose where they got the information. There's a part of me that thinks (this is totally just an opinion and I am not sure about it in anyway, just a feeling) that they were told the location in the hopes they could arrange for the remains to disappear. The fact that ICA freaked out so bad when the remains were found felt to me like she really, really thought they would never show up, which would be pretty unlikely given she put them in that location to be found, like JB said. I think she thought that the remains had been removed.


As a side note, I think this was the hardest time for them. This was the timeframe of CA's "silent" interview... I think they were in deep grief once they learned they needed to give up hope for a live Caylee, and that her little body was so close but they would lose Casey if they told anyone. I think that is why they brought in the PIs on their own. It was the only thing they could think of to do.
 

KPCrimeNY

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I think CA & GA knew that if they found the body, it would implicate ICA. Since they supported her 100% (at least until this trial started) they could not do anything themselves with that information. I think they needed someone to go get it and chose the PIs, and chose at least one PI who would go along with the story of the psychic. I think they wanted the body out of those woods. But their house was under 24 hour webcam surveillance and people followed them everywhere... they couldn't very well just go get her without having to disclose where they got the information. There's a part of me that thinks (this is totally just an opinion and I am not sure about it in anyway, just a feeling) that they were told the location in the hopes they could arrange for the remains to disappear. The fact that ICA freaked out so bad when the remains were found felt to me like she really, really thought they would never show up, which would be pretty unlikely given she put them in that location to be found, like JB said. I think she thought that the remains had been removed.


As a side note, I think this was the hardest time for them. This was the timeframe of CA's "silent" interview... I think they were in deep grief once they learned they needed to give up hope for a live Caylee, and that her little body was so close but they would lose Casey if they told anyone. I think that is why they brought in the PIs on their own. It was the only thing they could think of to do.

Never got any good feelings from those PI's being in that area.
 

Ssejors

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Yer a smart cookie Dawn.. I like how you are thinking about this.


I mentioned something earlier about RK and how i wondered if he had witnessed something or had been black mailed or blackmailing the A's ...

Now i am seeing that this theory of him being given a tip on where to find Caylee is more likely the case.

I sure hope we get more clarification on this issue.
 

corq

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What is puzzling is why she was placed so close to the house and essentially very easy to find. Caylee wasn't buried and there was no outward attempt to conceal her other than the laundry bag. But a canvas laundry bag that is obviously stuffed with something is going to attract the attention of many people - even those who would not specifically be looking for a missing little girl.

I read a few too many criminal profiling books, so feel free to ignore me ;-) but I remember distinctly that body placement is significant in assessing the perp's relationship to the victim.

Couple things I think profilers assume:

Perp places body (somewhat) away from scene of crime b/c of guilty knowledge (not always guilty feelings, that's different -- especially for sociopaths)

BUT: perp wants the body nearby, relatively, so that perp can potentially "control" or survey whether or not there's some potential for discovery.

Anyway, for me, this explains why *Casey* would have done this. The maligning of Kronk in this, is totally off the wall for me, I'm more a believer in Occam's Razor.

Anyway, just my take on it.
 
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