The Sidebar - Harris Trial #2

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Bently

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Looking for the pic

1:30 p.m. Persinger says Harris visited a website on May 9 , 2014 that held a checklist for a divorce. The website was titled, "Divorce, legal separation checklist." Persinger says the website was internal on the Home Depot website.

When you quit a job, it is called a separation from employment... just thinking as he at that time had just interviewed with CFA.

Question in general, if this case does NOT get the top three charges, will you feel that the jury did not do the right verdict and think of them as the jury with Casey Anthony that they couldn't add all the circumstances to add it all up to know of guilt? Is this going to be an outrage like FAC, or will more folks think it was "iffy: as to the outcome without outrage on the top three (only) verdicts.
 

Hope4More

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Not true, the ME said parking under the tree means he could have still been alive at that point.

And Ross who wanted his son to die in a hot car decided to park under a tree because....why?


One more of those "coincidences" too far. ;)
 

momoftwocrazies

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Clearly there's a point of contention in the jury room. Malace, ng, something is being debated. What is the thought regarding the longer the deliberations go?

I might go into withdrawals over the long weekend. Do you guys have any books to recommend that deals with jury deliberations, fiction or not. Thanks!
 

Hope4More

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That still leaves two witnesses though.

He had to have known he was on surveillance tape. Whoever did the retracing video of RH's drive from the Treehouse to the mall where RH pulled in said that the surveillance cameras were all over the Treehouse parking lot and very noticeable.
 

ScotAng

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That would be a delusional belief. Parents who leave their kids in the car to die are usually pretty despised.

And I don't think the sympathy would be worth losing everything and going to prison in any event. Do you?

That's not delusional. He was already thinking along those lines with his 'advocate' talk. His wife and family certainly didn't despise him. Then.

Besides, he DID get plenty of sympathy as said often enough before.

He didn't expect to go to prison. He asked Stoddard how long he'd be detained for not long into the interview. He asked how he'd get his vehicle back. He absolutely did not expect to even spend one night in jail, never mind prison.

The clients Dr Diamond testified for weren't despised, they had a lot a lot of support.
 

jbelle

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Big difference between the two. Jodi was crazy and her motive was crazy too. It's not like she tried to make it look like an accident.

Cooper's death was not the result of an emotional meltdown that had been building for months like Jodi did. It's the kind of death that has happened hundreds of times by accident. If the jury is going to find him guilty of murder, it's going to have to make sense to them. None of those motives make sense, and none of the surrounding actions and circumstances look like a guilty man trying to hide his crime.


Also, Arias had plenty of people come forward saying she was a crazy stalking weirdo. Not one person said anything like that about RH.

I can see someone horrible trying hot car death as a way kill a child and possibly get off, or face less of a sentence than other methods. I just do not understand why
he didn't just drive straight to work, and just go out to the car after work like normal. I also do not understand why he would not clear his phone history, even if he thought
he could get off, he had to know it wasn't just going to happen automatically and that his phone would be looked at.
 

Hatfield

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In that case why was he (apparently) making a huge effort to remain upright and not be seen bending over or looking into the car...

Assuming he did it on purpose I have to wonder if he thought the child would have already been dead and was ready to throw a fake scene right at that time. Maybe when he opened the door he heard the boy still crying and then quickly shut the door and left to wait for more time.

That could explain his upright stance if he started hearing the child when he got to the door.

The buying of the bulbs may have been an excuse to "find his child".

I know others have said he should have known how long it would take though. He may have gotten impatient and wanted to throw his scene at lunch.
 

momoftwocrazies

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And Ross who wanted his son to die in a hot car decided to park under a tree because....why?


One more of those "coincidences" too far. ;)

But he learned from the vet video that trees, wind doesn't protect the car from heating up. And we know he looked at the weather the day before. Hottest day of the year.
 

Hope4More

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What makes you think that no one ever really gets into trouble for it? IIRC more than half of the people who leave their kids in hot cars like this are charged with a crime.

All of these deaths are investigated, even if the involved parent isn't later charged with a crime.

As for wanting to kill Cooper for sympathy. Really? Who sympathizes with a parent who is responsible for their child dying a horrible, painful , and entirely preventable death? I'd bet the percentage of people who think it could NEVER happen to them tops 80-90 %. Believing that, why would those folks feel sympathy for a parent who somehow "let it happen," or worse?
 

jbelle

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When you quit a job, it is called a separation from employment... just thinking as he at that time had just interviewed with CFA.

Question in general, if this case does NOT get the top three charges, will you feel that the jury did not do the right verdict and think of them as the jury with Casey Anthony that they couldn't add all the circumstances to add it all up to know of guilt? Is this going to be an outrage like FAC, or will more folks think it was "iffy: as to the outcome without outrage on the top three (only) verdicts.

I think you were asking the "guilty" crowd, but I will answer as a "not guilty" of malice vote.
I will respect any decision the jury comes to. It was a tough case.

Here in Canada jurors can never discuss what went on in deliberations with anyone, ever. That leads to a lack of support for jurors after difficult cases, and many of them end up with sleep disorders, anxiety and depression etc. I hope the jurors in the US get much more support. I was upset just catching a glimpse of Cooper's little shoe while scrolling by very quickly. I couldn't take seeing those photos.
 

Hope4More

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But he learned from the vet video that trees, wind doesn't protect the car from heating up. And we know he looked at the weather the day before. Hottest day of the year.

Have you watched the actual video RH did? Am I going to really really regret it if I watch it? If not, I'd like to see for myself all the info RH saw on it.
 

Hatfield

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All of these deaths are investigated, even if the involved parent isn't later charged with a crime.

As for wanting to kill Cooper for sympathy. Really?
Who sympathizes with a parent who is responsible for their child dying a horrible, painful , and entirely preventable death? I'd bet the percentage of people who think it could NEVER happen to them tops 80-90 %. Believing that, why would those folks feel sympathy for a parent who somehow "let it happen," or worse?

A real accident then many people do sympathize and feel sorry for the parents. Just like in pool deaths. Sure people also wish and get angry that the person didnt take extra precaution but they also feel sympathy for the persons. A true accident is an accident and everyone knows that so they can and do forgive.

ETA Meant to add that I could see where he may have wanted to parlay this into some money making adventure by being an advocate going on tour around the country giving speeches or something.

Regardless of his guilt or not he comes across very arrogant to me so I would not put it past him if that was his motive.
 

BetteDavisEyes

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And Ross who wanted his son to die in a hot car decided to park under a tree because....why?


One more of those "coincidences" too far. ;)

Where did he usually park? Random space closer to entrance? Or, did Ross tend to park in the same general area of the parking lot? I have "regular" places where I park at venues I frequent. Maybe Ross had his own parking lot area at work. I don't know if the parking space and/or where Ross usually parked was discussed during trial. I'm a creature of habit, but maybe Ross wasn't.
 

momoftwocrazies

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Have you watched the actual video RH did? Am I going to really really regret it if I watch it? If not, I'd like to see for myself all the info RH saw on it.

I watched it... it's pretty bad to see what he goes through, what Cooper went through. Imagining what else he went through. I know it sounds crazy, but I wanted to share some of the awefulness with Cooper. Poor angel baby.
 

Hope4More

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Where did he usually park? Random space closer to entrance? Or, did Ross tend to park in the same general area of the parking lot? I have "regular" places where I park at venues I frequent. Maybe Ross had his own parking lot area at work. I don't know if the parking space and/or where Ross usually parked was discussed during trial. I'm a creature of habit, but maybe Ross wasn't.

RH is said to have been very much a man of habit, almost to the point of OCD. Plus, other Treehouse employees testified that many or most employees had their own preferred, regular spot.

One of the DT''s exhibits (think it was theirs) showed all of the places in which RH had parked over the previous month. He may have preferred one spot, but he didn't always park there, perhaps because of the number of times he arrived "late," as in, not in time to snag his spot.

Where he parked on the 18th (arriving late) wasn't where he usually parked, but neither was it (imo) conspicuously different from other times when he hadn't parked in the same spot.

It's objectively true that he could have chosen a spot away from the surveillance cameras, or in the same part of the lot closest to the entrance, but further back where there wasn't foot traffic, and where no one could possibly have seen Cooper in the car.
FWIW.
 

LyndyLoo

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But he learned from the vet video that trees, wind doesn't protect the car from heating up. And we know he looked at the weather the day before. Hottest day of the year.

Heat along with the mere fact Cooper was only 21 lbs. Most parent know full well fever/heat causes sweating..can see how that fever affects them..eyes looking wonky..and lethargy... But a child of that size would not take 8 hours to become dehydrated. Dehydration causes al sorts of problems..dysrhythmia ,,due to increase of Potassium.. Dehydration of child link and affects on their bodies!! Most parents know full well..That kids get sicker faster than adults..and that's why it's incumbent to treat fevers..or symptoms faster. The smaller the child..the faster parents have to respond!! In this case..most adults would have suffered...but may have survived..BUT a 21 pound youngster..NO way!! His stomach contents tells ya..Stomach content should have empty ( except bile) after 4 hours..yet still OJ and bits of potato only left. Meat or complex carbohydrates take longer. Yet I wonder why he still had OJ much less potato?? He at that stage should have had merely stomach bile/fluids left... I guess because I'm so entrenched in the HC industry..I know how this works....Maybe why I am so certain he was passed when RH opened that door in the car at lunch!

Heat Prostration is an awful thing for anyone to experience..BUT a 22 month old child must have been totally confused quickly!! Urine only in his diaper leads me to believe he had already had a Bowel movement before even leaving the house..otherwise..there should have been soiling in that diaper when rectal sphincter relaxed!!

http://www.hydralyte.ca/dehydration/dehydration-paediatrics/
Risk of dehydration in paediatrics
Infants and young children can lose a significant amount of fluid at a rapid rate.

Why?

Children have more water in the body than adults (70% in infants compared with 60% in adults)
Children have a faster metabolism
Children can lose more fluid through evaporation than adults due to their small size

Common signs of dehydration in paediatrics
Infants and young children will also experience the usual signs and symptoms of dehydration. Common symptoms of dehydration include:

Sticky or dry mouth
Increased thirst
Fatigue
Dizziness
Headache
Dark yellow or decreased urine output
There are a few more useful indicators of dehydration in paediatrics. These include:

Increased capillary refill – when you press the skin firmly, it takes more than 2 seconds for the white mark to disappear
Skin is less elastic
Breathing is abnormal.
Warning: Dehydration can become very serious in paediatrics at a rapid rate. Please seek medical advice if you are concerned about your infant or young child.
 

ScotAng

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When you quit a job, it is called a separation from employment... just thinking as he at that time had just interviewed with CFA.

Question in general, if this case does NOT get the top three charges, will you feel that the jury did not do the right verdict and think of them as the jury with Casey Anthony that they couldn't add all the circumstances to add it all up to know of guilt? Is this going to be an outrage like FAC, or will more folks think it was "iffy: as to the outcome without outrage on the top three (only) verdicts.

Legal separation would be related to divorce in that checklist.

If the top three charges were dismissed, I would totally feel it wasn't the right verdict. I find it hard to even talk abt the CA jury. That this jury didn't work on today points to them not being close to a decision. They're either having difficulty reaching agreement or are being thorough and reviewing the evidence meticulously. Or .....

Considering they've re-watched two longer videos and the short one today, taking breaks into account, actual deliberating hours haven't been that long. I'm satisfied they're taking it into next week.

I will be sick if all top three are dismissed, but I'll accept it. I don't think all three will be though, just throwing that in there. :) I definitely won't think it "iffy".
 

Hope4More

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I watched it... it's pretty bad to see what he goes through, what Cooper went through. Imagining what else he went through. I know it sounds crazy, but I wanted to share some of the awefulness with Cooper. Poor angel baby.

Do you know the name of the vet or of the video?
 

MsMarple

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I totally agree.

How many times has a murderer or criminal come right back to the crime seen to watch things unfold.

That is why LE always checks who attends funerals and missing person prayer events. LE knows that curiosity kills the cat.

The one that comes to mind is the fire starter guy who burned a whole bunch of places down and he videotaped himself in one scene where a house is burning in the distance with LE around keeping people back.

Or the kid who murdered Madyson Middleton. Not only did he pester searchers for news he went back to the recycle bin where he left her and checked on it. I'm surprised he didn't end up being the one who "discovered" her body.
 

gitana1

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If RH was the expert on hot car deaths you have asserted him to be, he'd have no reason to believe Cooper was alive at 12:45. ;)

How can anyone be sure, whether they knew about FBS or not, unless they are scientists? And I don't think he thought Cooper would still be alive. But I do think he would've been obsessing about it and wanting to make sure, like all murderers.
 
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