The Skull Fracture

Discussion in 'JonBenet Ramsey' started by luthersmama, Sep 5, 2006.

  1. luthersmama

    luthersmama New Member

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    I didn't really follow this case for the past 10 years so maybe I'm missing something. Here's my question:

    How can the theory be supported that the murder was to cover up an accident and/or familial abuse? The skull fracture occurred first, but there was no cut. The killer could not possibly have known the extent of the head injury unless he happened to have a CAT scan machine in his pocket. She may have been unconscious, but a reasonable person might think that she had a concussion and would survive.

    But this killer went ahead and strangled her, with a garrote no less. Somebody really, really wanted her to be good and dead.

    I have seen somewhere a theory that the skull fracture may have occurred in the bathtub when Patsy was cleaning her up. Then she flipped out and committed the murder to cover up the accident and supposed abuse. Huh? The signs of abuse are apparently somewhat debateable and might not have been discovered if there wasn't a murder investigation. Why would Patsy leave blood on the body and undies if she was covering up the abuse?

    I have always been on the fence and still am, but the skull fracture confuses me. I had never realized how huge it was, yet totally invisible.

    I come to the conclusion that there was no accident in the whole thing and that she was deliberately and brutally murdered simply because somebody wanted her to be dead and set about to make that happen by whatever means necessary.
     
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  3. Pedro

    Pedro New Member

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    Reasonable is the operative word.
     
  4. Beyond Belief

    Beyond Belief New Member

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    Or it was thought she had broken her neck.
     
  5. gls

    gls New Member

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    "a reasonable person might think that she had a concussion and would survive."

    IMO that´s exactly what the parents thought. They did not see the fracture so they thought she was knocked out and would come to any minute. There probably was a large bump on JB´s head so they may have placed ice packs on the bump trying to control the swelling. But she was breathing and there was hope.

    However the parents with their children had to be at the airport to fly to Minnesota early in the morning. Everyone knew they were to leave in the morning. How would they explain JB being unconscious on the plane trip? If they decided to stay home because JB "was sick", how would they explain JB´s condition if she stayed in the coma for a few days or a week? Around 4:00 or 5:00 AM they must have realized JB was in a coma and they or no one could predict when she would come out of it.
     
  6. Chrishope

    Chrishope New Member

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    I agree that killing to cover up an accident doesn't really seem the most probable scenario.
     
  7. Charlie

    Charlie New Member

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    What 'experts' said the head blow came first and what 'experts' say the strngualtion came first? I wish we had one definitive answer we could agree on and then go from there.
     
  8. leighl

    leighl New Member

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    With regard to the initial post, I would also like to know how it is that such a big fracture could occur with no visible trauma/bleeding of the scalp.
     
  9. calus_3

    calus_3 Former Member

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    There is no clear answer as to whether the strangulation came first or the head wound......different experts differ.

    Cal
     
  10. Darlene733510

    Darlene733510 New Member

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    How that skull fracture happened is the mystery here.
    Some think it was caused by the maglite.

    I wonder if JB, after eating the pineapple, was put to bed, and when left alone, decided to do a little weaving on the loom. Perhaps PR caught her, and became angry. Could she have hit her with the loom, or something else that was near the bed that would have caused such an injury? I can't remember the pictures of JB's bedroom, but I remember it was crammed full - may have been something there that was
    used to hit her on the head.
     
  11. UKGuy

    UKGuy Active Member

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    luthersmama,

    Some people think her death was not intended, i.e. it was the result of some kind of rage.

    So its possible that while Jonbenet was being manually strangled the force of this caused her head to hit some household object, alternatively immediately after being strangled she fell down injuring her head as she fell?

    The above is what I would describe as the charitable explanation, since it portrays her death as a sequence of unintended consequences.

    Head bashing is the method of choice of most predators, its what they do to disable their victim. Was it Ted Bundy who used a plaster cast? If an intruder did it, then it would probably come first in the attack sequence.

    Previously JonBenet had suffered a head injury. Burke accidently whacked her with a golf-club, on this occassion she was immediately transferred to a hospital for medical attention.

    So if her head injury came first and it was accidental then there is no reason not to call for medical assistance.

    So with no call to the hospital, and no intruder its safe to assume that unless a Ramsey deliberately delivered a head blow first, that it did not occur first in the sequence.

    A scenario to consider is JonBenet being manually strangled say on top of a bed, once she is dead her killer tries to move the body, pulling her by the ankles which results in her head hitting the floor?

    Another scenario to consider is that the head bash is part of the staging, after manually strangling her, the stager placed a garrote around her neck, and whacked her on the head with say the flashlight, the violence intended to deflect blame away from the residents?

    Its notable that JonBenet's first staging was probably that reflecting a sexual predator, which incorporated a sexual assault, so postmortem injury is part of her killer's mindset.


    The blood spots on her size-12 underwear do not match any blood smears on her genitalia, which suggest she was wiped down after being redressed, probably not by Patsy.

    Patsy's initial response may have been to create a crime-scene that mirrored that of a sexual assault by a predator, this would include adding the garrote, and penetrating JonBenet either digitally or using the remaining end of the paintbrush handle, whether JonBenet was indecently posed or redressed in her size-6 underwear is open to debate?

    Later John removed the bloodied size-6 underwear including the remaining piece of the paintbrush handle. Using the size-6 underwear to wipe her down, he then redressed her in the size-12 underwear?

    Alternatively it was John who faked the sexual assault, then wiped her down, adding the duct tape, and wrist loops etc?

    JonBenet was wiped down, redressed in the size-12's, and a fake garrote applied, along with the duct tape and wrist loops, so its patently the case that the wine-cellar is a staged crime-scene.

    And you do not stage a crime-scene to hide an accident, since an accident can be explained away in any manner you wish, particularly if the victim is dead!



    .
     
  12. olive

    olive New Member

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    This is one of the only things I've read all day that makes any sense.
     
  13. PagingDrDetect

    PagingDrDetect New Member

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    Not necessarily. It depends on what is meant by "accident". If it was an act of rage it would be a manslaughter charge, and I seriously doubt the Ramseys see much difference between that and a murder charge... both require jail time.

    Even if it was an accident where JBR slipped in the tub, fell and cracked her head, it still doesn't mean that the parents would not be worried that LE might think it didn't happen that way. Parents always worry that if their child gets hurt in an innocent manner someone may believe the injuries occurred in a sinister way... particularly when there are no witnesses.

    If it was an innocent accident injury, there's still no way of knowing how the parents would react. It's evident the Ramseys are strange and narcissistic people... who knows what they're capable of even in a situation where such serious injuries occurs as an innocent accident.

    Whoever staged the crime clearly believed that the blow to the head was so serious that it did or would cause her death. I would imagine that a fracture that large and severe would have made a hideous sound. Perhaps JBR made horrible noises or went into convulsions. Whatever happened, it's evident that the blow to the head was so severe that it caused her death as according to the experts... without the strangulation they believe she would have died from the head injury anyway. They are of the belief that she would have died from EITHER the head injury OR the strangulation... so effectively she was killed twice.

    Personally, through the physical evidence I believe the blow to the head came first followed very soon after by the strangulation, which was either meant to finish her off or just purely for staging purposes.
     
  14. tumble

    tumble New Member

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    I really don't think this incident is at all comparable to the fatal head blow. The glof club incident caused a black eye that was all. Most people would not go to the hospital at all for that. PR even took JB to a plastic surgeon to look at that eye.

    Now what would she do if JB was comatose showing no signs of life after maybe several hours. The final ligature could actually been a mercy killing.

    Another thought along the mercy killing line,
    if JB was molested and PR found out maybe she thought, 'lets save her from this and take JB with me to heaven'. PR might thought she was about to die from the cancer and maybe she had her own scars from being molested.
     
  15. Toltec

    Toltec New Member

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    How do you explain away an eight-inch fracture? Parents would be arrested.

    The impact of the blow was at the back of the right side of her skull...crushed that part of the skull, causing an eight-inch fracture. The force of the blow was powerful. No accident there.

    Remember the brick taken into evidence? It had hairs on it but we do not know who's hair it was....same with the baseball bat, hairs on that too.

    If it was Burke who bashed JonBenet on the head, then it would make alot of sense for him to open the Butlers pantry door and throw the bat outside. That's what a kid would do. Then he would run upstairs and feign sleep.
     
  16. Camper

    Camper New Member

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    IF IF the artists rendering of JonBenet on autopsy table is correct there was a very LARGE pony tale that emanated at where I suspect the BLOW landed, and cushioned the skin.

    A mighty blow!!!!!! Someone very STRONG had to deliver it, IF IF the artist drawing is accurate.

    .
     
  17. UKGuy

    UKGuy Active Member

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    PagingDrDetect,

    The point being an accident is not a homicide, and is a better form of staging than that of staging a homicide. Notwithstanding forensic evidence, contusions, wounds etc, the Ramseys would have been free to say whatever they wanted regarding JonBenet's alleged accident. Whichever way they play it they have a dead body to explain away, by adopting a homicide staging they limit their scope.


    This is erroneous, there is no evidence to suggest her killer(s) had any knowledge of her head injury, Coroner Meyer never knew either until he did an internal investigation. Her head injury may be part of the staging, not her death.

    The two may have been simultaneous, occurring whilst JonBenet was deliberately and intentionally manually strangled to death.

    imo the head blow is either concurrent with her strangulation or is staging applied after being strangled.

    You just do not hide an accidental death from a head injury by a convoluted and complex homicide staging!


    .
     
  18. UKGuy

    UKGuy Active Member

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    tumble,

    Its not simply that its comparable, its also a precedent, something that is not always available in homicide cases.

    We know how they behaved on a previous occassion when an accident occurred!

    The final ligature is likely staging, JonBenet was dead after being manually strangled.


    .
     
  19. UKGuy

    UKGuy Active Member

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    Toltec,
    Of course there is no accident, JonBenet was intentionally killed.

    If Coroner Meyer could not immediately see any head injury, why should anyone else?

    If JonBenet suffered a head injury as the initial cause of death, then that could be explained away as an accident, there is no death penalty for an accident, regardless whether it was Burke, John or Patsy who yielded the lethal blow.

    Like the garrote, her size-12's, longjohns, duct-tape, and sexual assault, her head injury may be part of the staging?


    .
     
  20. tumble

    tumble New Member

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    The point was that the incidents was not comparable.
    If it's the wording that bothers you lets say the fatal head blow was not an accident but instead a not premediated killing.

    How can you be certain that she was manually strangled?
    I agree she could have been, but I don't see any conclusive evidence of it.
     
  21. s_finch

    s_finch New Member

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    However, if you look closely at the garrote, she wasn't strangled with it. It was for staging. The perp would have had to wind that ligature for forever (all 17 inches of it) before it would have gotten tight enough to strangle her and the knot immediately next to her neck appears to be a double knot, not the kind you would use with a garrote (if you knew what you were doing). Also, her hair is entangled in the garrote handle, so how would they have wound and wound it with her hair in it, plus I don't think her hair was long enough (considering it is in the garrote handle) for the garrote to be used in the manner the staging points to. IOW, the ligature couldn't have been pulled taunt as her hair wasn't that long.

    She was strangled manually, probably with her back to the perp. Look at the autopsy pictures.
     

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