The Stine And Ramsey Friendship/relationship

Discussion in 'JonBenet Ramsey' started by ItzShea, May 30, 2018.

  1. SarahThePrincess

    SarahThePrincess Former Member

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    ... Dude!....Thank you for the greeting!!
    I missed you all!
    I got disgusted. Thinking it would never be solved.
    Well, I couldn’t stay away!
    Even knowing this case will never bring any sense of closure to anyone. Unless an insider in the case decides to make a un - or non? incriminating confession!
    Somebody wants Justice.
     


  2. SarahThePrincess

    SarahThePrincess Former Member

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    Burke said they both got bikes for Christmas that year.
    Bike marks in the snow indicate somebody rode Burkes’ bike away from the scene of the murder.
    Who is the only male who covered his face from the cameras? Who could have had scratch marks on his face from Jonbenet?
     
  3. UKGuy

    UKGuy Well-Known Member

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    SarahThePrincess,
    Could be. Now why would Burke say they both got bikes? Real mystery that one, although I read somewhere Patsy went down town Boulder the week before Christmas and picked the bikes herself.

    You have to wonder why the parents wanted that factoid buried?

    Was it BlueCrab who proposed the theory that Doug Stine returned back with the Ramseys then after JonBenet's death DS used a Bike, did he not suggest Patsy's Bike, to bicycle back home?

    If so this would explain lots of stuff, including the Ramsy/Stine Love In, yet why would Susan Stine then tell BPD that DS and BR were discussing JonBenet's death, etc?

    Tell you what is ironic: BR does Dr Phil to airbrush his image, then tells Dr Phil We both got bikes thereby revalidating an old if not the original BDI, Come On Down Burke Ramsey !


    .
     
  4. questfortrue

    questfortrue Active Member

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    LOL at the reference “Come on down!”

    JR and BR seem to have reached consensus, invalidating Patsy’s statements:

    1) JR and BR claim BR received a bike for Christmas, although there was no reference to a second bike hidden in Barnhill’s basement. IIRC, Patsy never stated they purchased a bike for BR for Christmas. Was a bike purchased supposedly for BR's birthday as JR originally said before changing his story? IDK.
    (When someone as gifted a ‘fantasiste’ as JR changes a story as he did in the ’98 interview, it’s for a reason.)

    2) BR claims to have been with JR when he broke the basement window to enter the home. Patsy claims the kids were with her in Charlevoix. Teleportation?
    (Well, I don’t believe this one for a second. For one: JR’s hip girth would never have allowed his entry through that window.)

    After seeing JR in the Dr. P interview, I imagined JR as the director impresario telling BR, as in an improvisation skit, “Just have fun with it.” Based on all the grinning, guess he did.
     
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  5. UKGuy

    UKGuy Well-Known Member

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    questfortrue,

    1.)
    The short answer is no, Patsy purchased a bike for Burke, see reasoning below:


    6/23/1998 BPD John Interview, Excerpt
    So That's two bikes, one for Patsy, one for JonBenet.

    6/23/1998 BPD John Later in Interview same day, Excerpt
    Now we are at three bikes.

    6/25/1998 BPD Interview Continued, Excerpt
    That's back to two bikes again.

    We Have Your Daughter by Paula Woodward, pp. 26
    That's back to three again.

    The Daily Camera, Boulder; By JULIE POPPEN, Camera Staff Writer; Friday, December 26, 1997; Excerpt
    Article from BoulderNews Ramsey Archive
    That's back to three bikes with a third party referring to this aspect prior to JR being interviewed !

    Also on Dr Phil we have Burke saying:
    Again that's three bikes.

    So if Julie Poppen's source is accurate then Burke and JonBenet were both given bikes, yet Patsy and John have tried to hide this?

    2.)
    I agree JR has made up the story to cover for an amended staging, e.g. open broken window, suitcase, etc.

    Looks like it, plus don't forget to tell Dr. Phil you snuck back downstairs since that will explain the stuff in the CBS Documentary !

    I'm content that there were three bikes and that Burke's bike has been played down, could be BlueCrab was onto something?

    .
     
  6. questfortrue

    questfortrue Active Member

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    Could be. I don’t totally discount three bikes. But there’s enough confusion over the subject to wonder. My question revolves around Barnhill’s statement. He only mentions JR taking JB’s bike from his garage/basement. There’s also JR’s statement to LS when being asked what happened to all the bikes, and he responds that they kept Patsy’s bike and gave JB’s bike away. (Why no mention of BR’s bike?)

    I also have to wonder who told Poppen about Patsy purchasing two bikes-the store, one of the Rs' or friends of the Rs'? No attribution in the article, but it’s interesting.

    The Rs have sewn enough doubt into their stories to bring JAR’s suitcase, semen stained blanket and Dr. Seuss book into the mix as well as to create confusion over bikes. Personally I go with an insight from cynic: "The classic MO of the Ramseys’ from day one has been to throw as much out there as possible and see what sticks."
     
  7. UKGuy

    UKGuy Well-Known Member

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    questfortrue,
    I'm with you on cynic's dictum, I term it as Smoke and Mirror's, since JR knows there is something to hide and we do not know what it is, hence all the Monkey Spanners.

    Initially this is what I thought the issue over the bikes was, e.g. JR oscillating randomly between recalled numbers, intending to obsfucate.

    Yet Julie Poppen's account complete with the shop name predating JR's mandatory ramnesia lends it a credence that corrects JR's later versions.

    In other words there is no reason for Burke to say he was given a bike if JR has the ramnesia loophole to account for the variance in numbers, leaving Burke agreeing with a news reporter who scooped his father.

    Meaning whether or not Burke's bike along with the trip downstairs and JR's reference to the flashlight might be smoke and mirrors, BlueCrab's theory is alive and kicking since by all accounts we have a missing bike.

    .
     
  8. questfortrue

    questfortrue Active Member

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    Meandering thoughts

    Well if the 3rd bike referenced wasn’t at Barnhill’s . . .

    And it was originally mean for BR birthday . . .

    Then we’d have to guess where the 3rd bike was hidden before Christmas or where it could have been discovered by a child getting into mischief the day before Christmas . . .

    ? ? ?

    upload_2018-10-3_9-36-48.png


    upload_2018-10-3_9-37-10.png
     
  9. questfortrue

    questfortrue Active Member

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    That's 'meant' (not 'mean') for BR birthday
     
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  10. UKGuy

    UKGuy Well-Known Member

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    questfortrue,
    Well the third bike appears to have existed, three people say it did. It could have been stored with Patsy's bike in the garage?

    It might be the bike has an innocent explanation, but having to explain it, could mean JR's role is revealed, as when he told Lou Smit that Patsy never knew what gifts were in the wine-cellar, I wondered how so?

    Maybe it was for his birthday but he found it when he was searching the basement Christmas Day? Did he take JonBenet down to look at his bike?

    So the third bike is an another anomaly, alike the missing Christmas morning photographs. Might be Burke bicycled somewhere Christmas night or as per BlueCrab DS bicycled back home, explaining why the Stines were not invited over by Patsy?

    Those soda cans in Burke's room, were they his, did he share a can with a friend? There appears to be enough unanswered clues to suggest there is more going on than a standard RDI would reveal?

    .
     
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  11. Cottonstar

    Cottonstar Victimologist

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    It always leads back to the bikes lol. I’ve spent so much time in the Ramsey bicycle situation rabbit hole that I could tell you what brand and model every bicycle in that house was. But still, where are all the freakin’ bikes? 400 plus crime scene photos and not a bike makes an appearance in any of them. For 20 years the Ramseys hid that Burke got a bike for Christmas that year. They never talked about it and left it out of all narratives. When asked about Christmas gifts in their interviews they always say JBR got a new bike for Christmas and never mention that Burke did, always mentioning his Nintendo and such.

    For some reason after 20 years in September of 2016, when Paula Woodward’s book came out and on Dr. Phil, all of a sudden John says Burke got a bike, even though when he summarizes events in his previous books(DOI-TOSOS) he never mentions Burke getting a bike. Then on on Dr. P, Burke says we both got bikes. The bikes do seem to play a role in what happened that day/night. It seems John is always trying to account for a missing bike.

    While in my rabbit hole I talked to Julie Poppen a little over a year ago. After a few emails, I asked her what her source was for Patsy buying two bikes at University bicycles before Christmas that year. She said she wishes not to answer.....typical.

    Btw, Burke did get a bicycle that year. You have to ask yourself why for 20 years did the parents hide this?
     
  12. EastCoast

    EastCoast Active Member

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    ok , I will think on that. Great point there. Thanks for the research.
     
  13. UKGuy

    UKGuy Well-Known Member

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    Cottonstar,
    The most consistent explanation, although maybe not the most satisfying, is that originally the R's wanted people to think the Intruder left using BR's bike?

    IMO, the missing bike links to the missing photographs, as it likely appeared in them?

    .
     
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  14. Cottonstar

    Cottonstar Victimologist

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    It’s important to note that the Ramseys didn’t stage the scene as an IDI(stranger). They went all in on framing LHP. That was their plan A. Both John and Patsy told the police numerous times the morning of the 26th and beyond, that they checked all doors and windows and that they were all secure. It’s easy to see the psychology of why they chose to say all doors were locked.

    As for the bike, I believe John may have been trying to account for a missing bike, if the crime scene photos showed there were only 2 bikes at the house on the morning of the 26th.
     
  15. FY1234

    FY1234 Member

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    What happened to Burke's bike?
     
  16. Cottonstar

    Cottonstar Victimologist

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    For the cover-up to have any chance of succeeding the Ramseys needed three things to happen right away. They needed their phone records to be sealed or erased. Same for their credit cards receipts/history. Also, the photos/videos from Christmas morning.
     
  17. FY1234

    FY1234 Member

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    Yes their phone records needed to be erased to not show any calls made the night of the 25th- they probably called family and/or attorneys etc, but what does Burke's bike have to do with anything?
     
  18. UKGuy

    UKGuy Well-Known Member

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    Cottonstar,
    I don't buy the LHP framing as its after the fact, i.e. its not implicit in the wine-cellar crime-scene, it can lead to the post hoc fallacy.

    Why does LHP need to ligature aspyxiate, sexually assault and inflict blunt force trauma on JonBenet, that's even wilder than BDI ?

    We have a missing bike and photographs, the thing is why would anyone need to hide they existed?

    The obvious answer is the bike never existed, its early spin from the Ramsey's via copy given to Julie Poppen so she file a good story on the JonBenet case, this might be why she is reluctant to talk?

    Yet BR alike his remarks about JonBenet walking into the house, tells us he did get a bike for Christmas, so invoking cynic's dictum this might be smoke and mirrors from JR via BR on Dr Phil, since JR is aware of BlueCrab's original theory, my understanding is that JR hired a PI to identify BlueCrab leading to him leaving the JonBenet boards?

    So the case might really be JDI with JR happy to spin anything that points away from him?

    All that said, hiding details about the bike including possible photographs can only mean it played a role in JonBenet's death or it was used to allow someone to bicycle home. This latter option can then be indirectly linked to the Stines and their subsequent employment by the Ramseys?

    .
     
  19. Cottonstar

    Cottonstar Victimologist

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    Because the ligature, sexual assault, and blow to the head were not staged. What’s done is done. This is the starting point of the staging. They had to play the hand they were dealt.


    The Ramseys did not stage the scene as IDI. They staged it as an “inside job”.

    If you look real close you can see how they tried to pin it on LHP from the get. They may even have staged some elements of the cover-up to point her way.
     
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  20. questfortrue

    questfortrue Active Member

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    Everything you mention may be true. But in keeping with the ‘system’ of throwing as much out as possible to distance the BPD from the family, it didn’t matter if it made no sense that LHP wouldn’t have enacted such a violent crime. The BPD was extremely quick to investigate her and her family, so the Rs apparently superbly convinced them it was worth pursuing immediately.

    I’m glad CS has followed the bike saga. I was not interested in going down another rabbit hole about bikes after I pursued the Rs’ many conflicting statements about whether JB road her bike on Christmas Day. Barnhill once stated in a newspaper: "I didn't see a lot of people over there Christmas Day," said Barnhill, who had hidden the bicycle JonBenet's father had bought his daughter. "I didn't see JonBenét with her bike, but I did see (her 10-year-old brother) Burke ride his bike down the lawn there." (Quote comes from a Daily Camera article on December 28th. Author Elliot Zaret.)

    As to the evolution of the connection between the Ss and the Rs, these are a few known facts and my apologies if you’ve already seen these.

    Back in the fall of 1997, SS lost her contract with the University. Sometime thereafter GS got into a spat with the University after he gave himself an $18000 bonus which was not authorized by the Board of Regents.

    Before JB’s death the Rs were becoming a star in Boulder’s community. Not only was AG doing well, but after Patsy’s cancer went into remission, she worked diligently to put JR and herself in the top echelon of the Boulder ‘social scene’ – joining the church of the more noted citizens, donating to different causes, holding a large holiday open house, volunteering at her children’s school. SS greatly admired Patsy and obviously cultivated her friendship. GS would have been very impressed by JR’s success. They took them into their home, likely also to provide some normalcy for BR.

    After JB’s death, JR had a big plan to buy AG from LM, who owned all the stock in the company. JR wished to take AG public, pay back LM and reap some great rewards $$$$. Although this plan flew in the face of LM’s objective to sell AG along with some other assets to GE, apparently JR was not deterred from the idea . . .until he lost his position with AG.

    When he lost that bid for wealth, JR started another company called Jaleo of North America, a software company originating in Spain. He did provide GS an executive position within the company, but unfortunately Jaleo went bankrupt in 1999.

    I’ve speculated about something quite easy to imagine. This is in regards to wealth. While the family was housed at the S’ home, I’m sure talk sometimes turned to business and wealth possibilities at the dinner table. Although GS earned a nice salary at the University, the possibility of earning much more by hitching his star to JR could have occurred to him. Moreover, GS had some knowledge of investments which JR may have sought out, even before JB’s death, since GS was responsible for managing the University’s endowments.

    One simple reason I don’t endorse the BlueCrab theory, although I can’t discount it, is because of Kolar. He only focuses on the minor in the home that night and doesn’t hint at any other guest.
     

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