The Timing of the Chloroform Searches

[ThoughtElf]

Ok, let's think this through:
1. Anthony PC taken and cloned around the 16th of July - LE had logs files that early on - if search exists then, you can assume premeditation
2. Compaq laptop retrieved when LE impounded the car on July 16th - so if searches were on the laptop/ISP/Google log files at that time, also implies Casey & premeditation
3. Key-stroke programs likely installed before Computer returned to the Anthony's so if searches occurred at any time while Casey was in jail, then it was likely Geo, Cindy, or Lee - researching something they found or learned from Casey
4. if searches occurred any time while Casey was out on bond - could have been any (or all of them together) researching
5. If searches occurred after Casey was returned to jail and especially after last Wednesday - then it almost probably was Cindy

IMO - cops had the search logs very, very early on and ordered chloroform testing for that very reason.

Also, it will be fairly possible to determine WHO did do the searches, based upon other applications in use during the same on line session. Use of any applications like email, chat programs that require a password will determine who was on at the time. Likewise, visits to any sites that require passwords, like My Space, Aim, on line Banking, the infamous ATT on line record site, also all require passwords.

The likelihood of say responding to a chat at 23:01:31 then hitting a page from the google results at 23:01:49 being two specific and separate individuals in highly unlikely. Try it. See how fast you can get someone to sit in your puter chair and switch to any other app you have open.

Computer forensics are less complicated than it would seem.

 

[amethyst221]

Ok, let's think this through:
1. Anthony PC taken and cloned around the 16th of July - LE had logs files that early on - if search exists then, you can assume premeditation
2. Compaq laptop retrieved when LE impounded the car on July 16th - so if searches were on the laptop/ISP/Google log files at that time, also implies Casey & premeditation
3. Key-stroke programs likely installed before Computer returned to the Anthony's so if searches occurred at any time while Casey was in jail, then it was likely Geo, Cindy, or Lee - researching something they found or learned from Casey
4. if searches occurred any time while Casey was out on bond - could have been any (or all of them together) researching
5. If searches occurred after Casey was returned to jail and especially after last Wednesday - then it almost probably was Cindy

IMO - cops had the search logs very, very early on and ordered chloroform testing for that very reason.

Also, it will be fairly possible to determine WHO did do the searches, based upon other applications in use during the same on line session. Use of any applications like email, chat programs that require a password will determine who was on at the time. Likewise, visits to any sites that require passwords, like My Space, Aim, on line Banking, the infamous ATT on line record site, also all require passwords.

The likelihood of say responding to a chat at 23:01:31 then hitting a page from the google results at 23:01:49 being two specific and separate individuals in highly unlikely. Try it. See how fast you can get someone to sit in your puter chair and switch to any other app you have open.

Computer forensics are less complicated than it would seem.

Agree. We won't have a picture of Casey or whoever doing the search. But the timing, surrounding activities, and possibly even accounting for the whereabouts of others at the time of the searches, will lead toward the drawing of reasonable inferences as to who did the searching. It's like all potential evidence, you do the best you can with what you have. So if Casey did searches before Caylee disappeared, then it would still have to be related to the actual chloroform in the car evidence, whatever its context.

 

[s_finch]

Ok, let's think this through:
1. Anthony PC taken and cloned around the 16th of July - LE had logs files that early on - if search exists then, you can assume premeditation
2. Compaq laptop retrieved when LE impounded the car on July 16th - so if searches were on the laptop/ISP/Google log files at that time, also implies Casey & premeditation
3. Key-stroke programs likely installed before Computer returned to the Anthony's so if searches occurred at any time while Casey was in jail, then it was likely Geo, Cindy, or Lee - researching something they found or learned from Casey
4. if searches occurred any time while Casey was out on bond - could have been any (or all of them together) researching
5. If searches occurred after Casey was returned to jail and especially after last Wednesday - then it almost probably was Cindy

IMO - cops had the search logs very, very early on and ordered chloroform testing for that very reason.

Also, it will be fairly possible to determine WHO did do the searches, based upon other applications in use during the same on line session. Use of any applications like email, chat programs that require a password will determine who was on at the time. Likewise, visits to any sites that require passwords, like My Space, Aim, on line Banking, the infamous ATT on line record site, also all require passwords.

The likelihood of say responding to a chat at 23:01:31 then hitting a page from the google results at 23:01:49 being two specific and separate individuals in highly unlikely. Try it. See how fast you can get someone to sit in your puter chair and switch to any other app you have open.

Computer forensics are less complicated than it would seem.

Good points. I think the chloroform searches were probably already on puter when it was first confiscated, that's how they knew to test for it. I do believe LE is releasing little bits of info along and along to scare Casey into talking, but she's not gonna. She's too confident they won't find Caylee's body. Maybe she took notes from Melinda Duckett.

 

[ThoughtElf]

Agree. We won't have a picture of Casey or whoever doing the search. But the timing, surrounding activities, and possibly even accounting for the whereabouts of others at the time of the searches, will lead toward the drawing of reasonable inferences as to who did the searching. It's like all potential evidence, you do the best you can with what you have. So if Casey did searches before Caylee disappeared, then it would still have to be related to the actual chloroform in the car evidence, whatever its context.

So what are the possibilities there? If a search term was 'how to make chloroform' and the chloroform testing results showed it was 'homemade' then that would be linked context. Likewise, 'purchase chloroform on line' tied to a financial transaction they can subpeona, will also do the trick.

I think this might be a very important series of discoveries.

 

[amethyst221]

Think of the cases where the stupid defendant researches stuff like "how to stab yourself painlessly" or "how to kill with a knife." it probably won't be so explicit here. How many of us just did a search for "chloroform" today after hearing the news tidbit? It would be very important if someone read about dosing, use as an anesthetic. This just sounds like a made for TV kidnapping tool, though it clearly has been used in real life. Maybe people think it is less traceable than a prescription drug. Or that it won't show up in a later tox screen of the victim, IDK. A recent serial killer used it, and maybe people who read about them for pointers might think it was a good idea.

 

[ThoughtElf]

Think of the cases where the stupid defendant researches stuff like "how to stab yourself painlessly" or "how to kill with a knife." it probably won't be so explicit here. How many of us just did a search for "chloroform" today after hearing the news tidbit? It would be very important if someone read about dosing, use as an anesthetic. This just sounds like a made for TV kidnapping tool, though it clearly has been used in real life. Maybe people think it is less traceable than a prescription drug. Or that it won't show up in a later tox screen of the victim, IDK. A recent serial killer used it, and maybe people who read about them for pointers might think it was a good idea.

Agree 100% that if a search includes dosage terms, then that will be very telling. I'd also like to know if the search terms included 'kidnapping' - in case it was meant to be used as part of a cover-up plot.

 

[MD MOMMY]

I actually searched for chloroform and hair pulling because it's odd to me how in that video Caylee keeps pulling her hair. IMO if Casey used it on Caylee this time she may have used it before to make poor Caylee sleep.
My daughter wears a pony tail a lot and I just found it odd. I didn't come up with much on my search. So if I end up bald someone might search my computer and be like yep that is why LOL.

 

[ThoughtElf]

I'm having a lot of difficulty finding out HOW they test for chloroform. Chloroform appears to be used in a lot of forensic testing (i.e. pot will turn chloroform purple apparently). So I haven't even found anything yet that would tell us what test LE might have ordered to search for the presence of chloroform in the truck.

Anyone find links?

 

[Baznme]

I'm having a lot of difficulty finding out HOW they test for chloroform. Chloroform appears to be used in a lot of forensic testing (i.e. pot will turn chloroform purple apparently). So I haven't even found anything yet that would tell us what test LE might have ordered to search for the presence of chloroform in the truck.

Anyone find links?

My best guess is the chloroform was in the urine and skin samples. that poor baby had it in her system and possibly for a while. If the chloroform showed up in the hair shaft, she had been exposed to it several times.

 

[Brini]

My best guess is the chloroform was in the urine and skin samples. that poor baby had it in her system and possibly for a while. If the chloroform showed up in the hair shaft, she had been exposed to it several times.

Every time I think I've heard the ultimate bizzarness, aorund this case....

 

[sadieMA]

I'm not an expert but isn't chloroform, empty apartments, gas cans all used to make meth? IMO worth checking to see what she bought with those checks at Target??

 

[ThoughtElf]

My best guess is the chloroform was in the urine and skin samples. that poor baby had it in her system and possibly for a while. If the chloroform showed up in the hair shaft, she had been exposed to it several times.

So if it does turn out that there was chloroform in the dna/hair, then we could conclude the searches were done before June 15th, minimally.

I was thinking the chloroform was in the carpet fibers or something like that. You've made me rethink something here.

 

[Reannan]

I'm not an expert but isn't chloroform, empty apartments, gas cans all used to make meth? IMO worth checking to see what she bought with those checks at Target??

Does Target still sell Sudafed by the case??? All kidding aside, there has been something about this case that speaks of drugs from the beginning, but it isn't as obvious as they usually are. I guess I am just suspcious of every horrible crime involving drugs somehow. They usually do.

 

[BlondieOH]

I actually said timing is everything as far as when she searched on it on another thread. I think the 2 things possible is that she used it to put Caylee to sleep when it was convienant to her and gave it to her multiple times and it finally killed her or gave it to her one time in a big dose.

Maybe she also made some for Cindy and George so she could "get the house"

 

[bunnyphoenix1]

Ok, let's think this through:
1. Anthony PC taken and cloned around the 16th of July - LE had logs files that early on - if search exists then, you can assume premeditation
2. Compaq laptop retrieved when LE impounded the car on July 16th - so if searches were on the laptop/ISP/Google log files at that time, also implies Casey & premeditation
3. Key-stroke programs likely installed before Computer returned to the Anthony's so if searches occurred at any time while Casey was in jail, then it was likely Geo, Cindy, or Lee - researching something they found or learned from Casey
4. if searches occurred any time while Casey was out on bond - could have been any (or all of them together) researching
5. If searches occurred after Casey was returned to jail and especially after last Wednesday - then it almost probably was Cindy

IMO - cops had the search logs very, very early on and ordered chloroform testing for that very reason.

Also, it will be fairly possible to determine WHO did do the searches, based upon other applications in use during the same on line session. Use of any applications like email, chat programs that require a password will determine who was on at the time. Likewise, visits to any sites that require passwords, like My Space, Aim, on line Banking, the infamous ATT on line record site, also all require passwords.

The likelihood of say responding to a chat at 23:01:31 then hitting a page from the google results at 23:01:49 being two specific and separate individuals in highly unlikely. Try it. See how fast you can get someone to sit in your puter chair and switch to any other app you have open.

Computer forensics are less complicated than it would seem.

Excellent points!

 

[ThoughtElf]

Excellent points!

TY.

What I am impatiently waiting for is tomorrow, when a ton of reporters are following up on both the source of the chloroform trace results - and the timing of the searches. I'm betting we hear a bit more about one or the other and I have a hunch it's going to make many of us squemish.

 

[future criminologist]

I'm having a lot of difficulty finding out HOW they test for chloroform. Chloroform appears to be used in a lot of forensic testing (i.e. pot will turn chloroform purple apparently). So I haven't even found anything yet that would tell us what test LE might have ordered to search for the presence of chloroform in the truck.

Anyone find links?

I don't have a link, but I KNOW that I read in an article in the last couple days that one of the tests they did in the trunk was with a blacklight. and I remember thinking, blacklight? as in luminol? so maybe luminol can also test for chloroform?

 

[ThoughtElf]

Finally! I found a great site/file that outlines different chloroform testing methods in detail, yet still is still easy to follow. There are tests for air, blood, skin, urine, environmental (water, food, sediment, etc.) Includes testing methods and results

Start around page 2 of the pdf for a full listing of tests

http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/toxprofiles/tp6-c6.pdf

 

[monoxide]

Can't remember who asked but yeah chloroform and gas is used to make meth http://www.mappsd.org/Meth Ingredients.htm

 

[kpass]

I'm not an expert but isn't chloroform, empty apartments, gas cans all used to make meth? IMO worth checking to see what she bought with those checks at Target??

Great point! :waitasec: