The Toddler - UP9704

Discussion in 'LISK Unidentified Victims' started by bessie, Apr 5, 2011.

  1. copperterra

    copperterra New Member

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    I was thinking that maybe it wasn't the mom and the baby who are of the religion that buries its dead with jewelry, but it's probably the killer. I have always felt that he was probably in a relationship with the mom and either was the father of the baby or considered her his daughter.
     


  2. Kodiak

    Kodiak Active Member

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    I, too, have come to same possible theory that the killer just might be the father of the child. In fact, I came here to post this theory and I see copperterra offers the same possibility. It was either the case that the child's mother brought her along for for a first time "service meet" or one of several with the mother and killer. Perhaps the last meet was to drop the bomb to the killer–that the child was his. And if the killer already has a family of his own, that would be an instant threat and a motive to get rid of the mother and child.
     
  3. Kodiak

    Kodiak Active Member

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    Also, on the child's NAMUS case profile, it lists the sex as "unsure." With the current advancements in DNA, I don't understand why the sex can't be determined. If the child was male, then there would be Y-DNA. If not, then it would be female. I also don't understand why the DNA can't pinpoint the top/main ethnicity of the child. Is LE DNA testing different or limited compared to public commercial testing like 23andMe, FTDNA, etc.?
     
  4. dotr

    dotr Well-Known Member

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    These mps and Carl's suggestion look very interesting, wonder if the have been compared yet?
    Tiffany Westford, Marie Dominique

    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?283333-The-Toddler&p=11892287#post11892287
    AMANDA AMGAD SALIB GARAS (Child) and SUZAN BOULES BESCKALES GERGES (Mother)

     
  5. rcoope23

    rcoope23 New Member

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    I haven't submitted Tiffany and Marie yet.
     
  6. LadyAstrid

    LadyAstrid New Member

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    I am Hispanic, Spanish, and native American and my family had my ears pierced within the first year of my life. I was also gifted necklaces and rings very young. I don't know why but this does seem to be a tradition in my family.

    Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
     
  7. Momoffourboys

    Momoffourboys Well-Known Member

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  8. lisalali

    lisalali New Member

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    I am Caucasian and my sister and I also had our ears pierced before we were one. The pediatrician actually pierced them for us . We also had gold jewelry before our first birthday . My dad is mostly Italian so that is possibly why my parents had us in jewelry.
     
  9. stillwatersc

    stillwatersc Well-Known Member

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    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/12/14/dna-discovery-reignites-long-dormant-serial-killer-case.html

    So we know 'Peaches' is the toddler's mom and they would have last been seen in 1997. Hopefully the pair can be identified now.
     
  10. stillwatersc

    stillwatersc Well-Known Member

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    https://www.longislandpress.com/201...ubbed-peaches-linked-to-gilgo-beach-killings/

    Peaches-696x388.jpg

     
  11. Dogface

    Dogface Well-Known Member

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    I was going to say Tiffany Westford should definitely be looked into more, then when down a rabbit hole looking for her mother Marie Catherine Dominique and think I may have found her...under the small snippet on charley project it mentions the mother was Haitian and may be out of the country. I found a woman, same age(48) and with an additional surname. What are the chances of someone having the same name, being the same age and living somewhere her Haitian Creole would be similar to the language spoken there?
     
  12. BigCityAccountant

    BigCityAccountant Well-Known Member

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    I can't seem to figure out how to copy over a post to a different thread. I know there is a way, I just can't remember how to do it. If someone knows and wouldn't mind sharing that would be great!!

    Anyway, I thought this might be a significant coincidence as someone else mentioned that their might be a a connection with Mickey Mouse as the LISK registered the tracer phone to Mickey Mouse.

    So, I found a post by a WSer referencing a Mickey Mouse blanket. (see post attached) I was also following a lead in an effort to identify Darling Doe and happened upon this. I thought it might be too much of a coincidence to not post. I haven't followed up on it yet to see where it goes~~it might be a rabbit hole, but thought it might be worth mentioning.

    April 21, 2008~~~FRANKFORT, Ky. — After the murder, the body was swaddled in bed sheets and a Mickey Mouse blanket. It was placed in a van, driven far from any road in rural Henry County and dumped in a narrow creek bed, just as another July day was dawning.

    http://www.doenetwork.org/media/news210.html

    [​IMG]
     

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    DakotaMayi likes this.
  13. BigCityAccountant

    BigCityAccountant Well-Known Member

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    .
    I went down that rabbit hole too...LOL
    I read somewhere else that she was located in Haiti and then went missing again or at least that is how I understood it.
     
  14. Dogface

    Dogface Well-Known Member

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    From my finding I found a person with the mothers name mentioned on the website for a newspaper circulated in Mauritius. On a side note, websleuth rabbit holes take up far more of my time than I am willing to admit to LOL.
     
  15. policyoftruth501

    policyoftruth501 Member

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    The one thing that keeps nagging at me is the toddler - and excuse me if this has been considered and dismissed in another discussion, I just haven't seen this possibility mentioned anywhere. Over time the presence of the toddler (and the talk of the party house) has made me change my thinking from girls having one fatal encounter with the killer to girls that were unknowingly in the killer's presence enough times, through trips to the "party house", that someone wouldn't question taking their child with them to meet this person. Just speculation, but as bad as all the murders are, the toddler has been the most haunting part of this entire case for me.

    As for the jewelry, I'm about as Anglo-Saxon as a person can get and my daughter's ears were pierced before she was two, but she only wore small studs. I know many Caucasians who have done the same. What struck me as odd about the jewelry is the size of the earrings. Children wouldn't normally wear earrings that size except in certain cultures. In addition to the other cultures that have been suggested, I will add that my cousin is married to a woman from India and this appears to be a common practice there from the pictures he has shown me. Also, for the jewelry to be discovered after being exposed to the elements for so long and not be green at all (or completely, as costume jewelry would be) leads me to believe it's actual gold, which would also be indicative of the cultural factor. Just my thoughts on the whole culture thing regarding the jewelry since I have seen similar but not exactly the same points offered.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  16. DaisyChains

    DaisyChains Active Member

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    It interests me that the toddler was not dismembered, but her mother was. Also the toddler was left with her blanket correct? These two things lead me to believe that the mother was the target and the toddler was collateral damage and viewed as a burden. It also tells me that possibly the killer wanted only to make an example of the mother, yet not the child, b/c the mother was dismembered. I kind of feel like the child was just "there" when the mother was murdered and the killer just had to rid of the child somehow. I've wondered often if the child was murdered before being left off the side of the road or if she passed away due to the elements :( How did the child die? This would tell us much about her murderer.

    Also, I'm not positive that peaches and the toddler are victims of LISK. I've been thinking more along the lines of a domestic relation or someone who was associated with the mother on a daily basis. Why would Peaches Doe be left with her tattoo (LISK presumably removes tattoos) and other items of evidence like the rubbermaid tub and pillow covers AND the toddler left with jewelry and a blanket, yet her killer made sure to obscure her identity by dismembering her? I think Peaches was intended to be found with some identifying features to leave an impression on those who knew her, but could not come forward. It could have been a pimp wishing to intimidate his other working girls or drug runners.

    I don't think LISK would be so disorganized to leave Peaches like that and also have the added burden of murdering her while her child was with her. Also LISKS proven victim profiles are typically young women who appear to be caucasian (the 4 in burlap). *However he could have made exceptions to this early on with his first victims b/c he was less savvy and had to choose victims of opportunity/anyone high risk regardless of race.*

    as far as the race of the toddler and mother, I tend to think biracial black and white. JMOO :)
     
  17. policyoftruth501

    policyoftruth501 Member

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    I agree, it seems like the child (just like the mother) was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Since they've never released a cause of death on the child I keep going back to her being smothered. Once the body had decomposed, smothering wouldn't leave a trace to be able to determine the cause of death.

    What trips me up (and I don't want to get too deep in this discussion in this thread as it may belong elsewhere) is the child being so neatly and cleanly preserved like the first four girls, while the mother was potentially one of the girls that were dismembered. These are two completely different personalities that derive pleasure in completely different ways, so it would be odd to have someone kill by both methods. Even if someone wouldn't dismember a toddler, it would be strange for them to take the time to wrap and the body instead of just tossing it or putting it in a tub.

    Oh - and I remembered one other big lightbulb that turned on for me that may explain the death of the child as well as why some care seems to have been taken in how she was disposed. The question about why the child was killed kept nagging at me and wouldn't leave me alone, but earlier today it finally hit me. As has been speculated many times before, I really, really, really think this child knew the killer on a first name basis, for whatever reason (insert your own speculation - related, party house, friends, etc.), but the reason this would matter so much to the killer is since the child was old enough to be talking there's a really good chance she would be able to say the name of the person that killed her mother. Plus, after killing the mother this person couldn't very well suddenly have a kid - especially if the mother and the child were known acquaintances of the killer.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  18. jacobd83

    jacobd83 New Member

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    Is there anyway anyone can post a list of people that have been ruled out
     
  19. LetThemEatCake

    LetThemEatCake Member

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    How do you know LISK erased tattoos?
     
  20. DaisyChains

    DaisyChains Active Member

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    Didn't LISK try to cut off Jessica Taylor's tattoo, but there was enough left to make an ID of the tat? Wasn't Manorville Jane Doe missing a tattoo as well that the killer cut off?
    [FONT=&amp]
    "The skull of one of the victims of a [/FONT]
    likely serial killer on Long Island[FONT=&amp] has been identified as 20-year-old Jessica Taylor, a woman[/FONT] whose dismembered body was found in Manorville in July of 2003, with her head and hands missing, and a tattoo gouged off her hip, just off Halsey-Manor Road[FONT=&amp], Suffolk County police said Monday. "

    [/FONT]
    http://archive.longislandpress.com/2011/05/09/jessica-taylor-identified-as-skull-on-ocean-parkway/

    'This woman would have been last seen alive in the late summer/fall of 2000,' said Dormer, who added the woman probably had some kind of tattoo or identifying mark on her right ankle since that part of her was cut off by her killer." (LI Press)

    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-Doe-remains-locatedv-Nov-2000-amp-April-2011

    Yet whoever murdered Peaches did not cut off her tattoo! Which makes me think the Toddler and Peaches were victims of a whole other monster than LISK. Then again, maybe LISK realized he messed up with his disposal of Peaches and leaving the tattoo and decided to remove the tattoos from that point forward. Could be him, couldn't be him.
     

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