The Toddler - UP9704

Discussion in 'LISK Unidentified Victims' started by bessie, Apr 5, 2011.

  1. DQN

    DQN Former Member

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    I started one I put the link on the jane doe peaches site
     


  2. bessie

    bessie Verified Insider

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  3. koco80

    koco80 New Member

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    Hello, I thought the same question and did some digging to at least identify the styles of the mother's bracelet's. The one style is an "Omega" bracelet and the other is an "X" Link, both Yellow Gold. It doesn't seem as if these pieces were mass produced for a Jewelry chain like Zales, Kay, etc... Here are the links to the sites where I found similar style bracelets:

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/391618637096?clk_rvr_id=1155933711231&rmvSB=true#cvip_desc

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/14k-Italian...345725?hash=item33c6e6c97d:g:QSAAAOSwaB5Xtzs7

    I also like to note that I believe the jewelry found on the mother is Gold Plated since it appears to have little spots of silverish metal showing.


     
  4. DQN

    DQN Former Member

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    It was the jewelry of the times nothing special, Kmart quality. too bad it wasn't better jewelry and engraved.
     
  5. WesternArtist

    WesternArtist Active Member

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    Since there has been some speculation about what the actual race of Peaches and the toddler may be and the tattoo hasn't led to anything yet, I decided to look for missing mother/daughter duos from around the timeline. Here are the cases I found:

    http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/w/westford_tiffany.html Tiffany Westford/Marie Dominique missing from Amityville, NY since November 13, 1993 (I know this case has been discussed for a while here but since I do not see it as being submitted, and the evidence about Marie being in Haiti haven't been verified I'm posting it).
    http://charleyproject.org/cases/m/munoz_nathalia.html Nathalia Munoz/Patricia Echeverri, missing from Franklin Square, NY since August 24, 1996
    http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1634dffl.html Cynthia and Makri Pfenninger, missing from Coral Springs, FL since May 6, 1994
    http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1859dffl.html Vivian Trout/Marina Lopez, missing from Miami Beach, FL since April 6, 1997
    http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/2881dfok.html Angela and Lilia Burns, missing from Midwest City, OK since March 7, 1994
    http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1180dffl.html Kelsi and Kelli Krum, missing from Arcadia, FL since August 11, 1994
    http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1718dfnc.html Brenttany Hughes and Robby Ann Floyd Hughes, missing from Fayetteville, NC since December 1, 1996 (there were other children involved and there have been reports of the missing group also including adults relocating to Arizona and Alabama).
     
  6. Hotpotato

    Hotpotato Member

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    I thought Angela burns and her mom were a fantastic candidate. Then I found them on fb and it appears they're living in Mexico.
     
  7. Hotpotato

    Hotpotato Member

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    I also found Cynthia Pffeninger on fb and upon looking further realized she had also been officially located a few years ago
     
  8. WesternArtist

    WesternArtist Active Member

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    Thank you! You're apparently really good at searching fb -I might ask for some help with that in the future. So, that looks like it leaves:

    Tiffany Westford/Marie Dominique
    Nathalia Munoz/Patricia Echeverri
    Vivian Trout/Marina Lopez (IMO mother probably too old)
    Kelsi and Kelli Krum (It looks like the cousin might have been the perp and it looks like they're White)
    Brenttany Hughes and Robby Ann Floyd Hughes (IMO I doubt it's them because there's other kids and adults involved)

    So, it looks like the first two might be worth looking at more -they're also the ones who went missing from right on LI.
     
  9. Hotpotato

    Hotpotato Member

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    Tiffany has been talked about so many times I'm shocked she hasn't been submitted!!!! Let me know if you need anything! When I get a moment I'll look a little deeper on the web!
     
  10. WesternArtist

    WesternArtist Active Member

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    Me too! Thanks, I might PM you sometime when I'm sleuthing. I haven't had much luck on fb searches but I don't have anything specific I need help with at the moment.
     
  11. alawaysslueth

    alawaysslueth Member

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  12. Berurevue

    Berurevue New Member

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    It makes no sense... a mother and a toddler disappear and no one reports them missing?!
     
  13. Lilyflower

    Lilyflower New Member

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    This is what surprises me too. Sure the child probably wasn’t school age (so no head start teacher) but people tend to notice if a child disappears.

    My only thought can be that somehow they were entirely off the radar - so much so that this child might not have even had a birth certificate. I’ve heard stories of Home births for those who fear Child Services might take their child - especially in drug cases

    If there’s no official record of birth - it’s impossible to track if the person is missing


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  14. Claireishere

    Claireishere Well-Known Member

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    Can someone correct me here. I thought years ago police said they had a suspect in these murders. However he was presently in jail and they did not have the evidence available to charge him yet? Is this correct or was this a different case?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  15. deedee21

    deedee21 Well-Known Member

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    Im not sure of the question. You used the phrase "years ago" and term" presently".
    Are you referring to Burke?
     
  16. deedee21

    deedee21 Well-Known Member

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  17. guardian1234

    guardian1234 Member

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    my only thought about the police not wanting the help of the public is ??? This police dept has a lot of faults and now this is one more bad negative thing I have heard about this police department SAD
     
  18. coffeeandacig

    coffeeandacig ...

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  19. Sweetestsky

    Sweetestsky New Member

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    New here, I have been following the beach on podcast and killing season. I apologize if this has been asked. Was any DNA ever found on the toddler that was found? It seems as if you would have to do a lot of hands on with a toddler who was screaming or crying . If there was any found has it been ran through a current 2019 felony DNA data base. All convicted felons have to give blood to be kept on file. Thanks. And does the case from PA SUITCASE JANE Doe belong to the Gilgo Beach killing. Seems very similar.
     
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  20. Sallyla

    Sallyla Well-Known Member

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    I have a theory on this. Size. I think LISK began killing women of usual size. But he had some kind of problem which meant that he could not move the bodies in one piece to hide them. He couldn’t manage to dispose of them in one piece alone. I think the cutting up was a necessity for him to dispose of the bodies, rather than the bit he got the thrill from. Obviously that would have made a huge mess to clean, had lots of potential to leave forensic evidence behind and made the remains more risky to transport (smell, leakage) and travelling to multiple locations over a longer distance also would have increased the risk of police stops etc.

    I think the toddler is why his MO changed. He took her in one piece to the beach, probably in some sort of bag or using the blanket as a sling carrier of sorts. I think after he’d done it he thought how much easier it was not to dismember. No cleaning. No hard physical work butchering. Less driving. Easier to cleanse the bodies of forensic evidence.

    So I think after that, his MO was to find small, light women of less than 100lb. Use burlap sacks as slings to carry them. I think that’s how and why his MO changed for the final 4.

    Regarding Peaches. I remember in the Fred and Rose West case many early victims were partners and family members. If he knew Peaches well, if she was his partner, he may well have known that regardless of the tattoo nobody would come looking for her or recognise it. Maybe a recent migrant from a poor country lacking communications. That could be why he didn’t bother removing it as he had with others.

    LISK could have been her father. But also, going back to the West case, he could have been a stepfather in her life who chose to keep the child around to be abused and exploited like West did to his Stepdaughter Charmaine. But then when she became too much of a hassle or nuisance and a block to their offending Charmaine was murdered, possibly by Rose alone. Fred West also killed his first wife Rena who was Charmaine’s mother. They never killed any other child as young as Charmaine, who was 8. I wonder if this is similar.

    Someone mentioned Brewer having a female child with him for a while but I can’t find any info so if anyone could point me in the right direction for that, I’d appreciate it.

    I also think a personal relationship with Peaches is possible because a toddler would not have the language to explain that she had seen her mother killed or had gone to a party after which she could have disappeared. She could just have been dumped alive on a street corner. But she could have had enough language to say she had a Dada and police would have started looking for a man alone who had a child with him (possibly not the same race) whose child had suddenly disappeared. I also think it’s interesting the child was killed at an age when her speech would have been developing fast.
    Anyway, pure speculation. But that’s my theory.
     
    r00t likes this.

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