The Verdict Waiting Room #2

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I'm having such a bad/sad day I wouldn't be surprised if he's acquitted just to add to today's crap.
One of my pets (aka best friend) died on the lounge next to me :'(
Oh Oddsocks I am so sorry for your loss. Pets are so special. Big cyber hug.
 

BJsleuth

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5 years 9 months and will be out sooner , bloody appalling , I was hoping 12 years no parole , that's only 1 year per charge and what about all the others
Yep. Met him once and he creeped me out the way he was looking young girls up and down. He looked up, saw me watching, gave me the look over and I gave him the knowing death stare and he scurried off quickly.
 

Amee

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Kate Kyriacou ‏@KateKyriacou 6m

I'm going to tweet the entire passage the judge read to the jury regarding circumstantial evidence, so stand by. #badenclay

Judge: As no one claims to have seen the accused kill his wife, this is a circumstantial case. #badenclay

Judge: Circumstantial evidence is evidence of circumstances that can be relied upon not as proving a fact directly... #badenclay

..but instead as pointing to its existence. #badenclay

Judge: It differs from direct evidence which tends to prove a fact directly. #badenclay

Judge: Typically when a witness testifies about something which that witness saw or heard. #badenclay

Both direct and circumstantial evidence are to be considered. It is not necessary for the facts to be proved by direct evidence. #badenclay

They may be proved by circumstantial evidence alone, by direct evidence alone or by a combination or direct and circumstantial. #badenclay

That is, both direct and circumstantial evidence are acceptable proof of facts. #badenclay

So you should consider all the evidence, including circumstantial evidence. #badenclay

Importantly, to bring in a verdict of guilty, based entirely or substantially on circumstantial evidence... #badenclay

guilt should not only be a rational inference, it must be the only rational inference that could be drawn from the circumstances. #badenclay

If there is any reasonable possibility consistent with innocence, it is your duty to find the accused not guilty. #badenclay

This follows from the requirement that guilt must be established beyond reasonable doubt. #badenclay

... And that's it. That was the full passage read by Justice John Byrne to the jury this afternoon. #badenclay
 

MadDoc

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I'm having such a bad/sad day I wouldn't be surprised if he's acquitted just to add to today's crap.
One of my pets (aka best friend) died on the lounge next to me :'(

Oh no!!! That's just awful!!
 

emirates1957

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07:32am :cuckoo:
Good morning, dear Websleuthers! I'm now here, finally. First I need :cup: or :coffeeup: or :coffeecup: or all together.

:rockon: :cheer: :rockon: :cheer: :rockon: :cheer: Sorry, but we have won the FIFA World Cup! Our fan-zone in Berlin: more than 250.000 fans;
in München and Hamburg about 50.000 fans; everywhere public viewing and high life!
The pics are showing you our goal scorer and our chancellor with the football team and of course once more our hot Neuer.
............... And now right away to Justice for Allison!
Congratulations FromGermany. My daughter's boyfriend is Argentinian…..and believe me (whilst not a follower) - I could hear the screams of defeat !!
 

amatteroftime

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I have followed this case from the beginning and have spent the last few weeks reading thousands of pages on this forum, I had a discussion with my husband last night , who happens to be a " black and with no shades of grey" type of guy. He asked me to summarise the evidence presented and see if I could convince him he was guilty...
1.The accused has called police early one morning reporting his wife missing
2. Police notice straight away the scratches on his face, accused gives long ramble about shaving cuts and owning a RE agency
3. Tells police she must have gone for a walk in the night or early AM, doesn't look for her before calling police, tells police she is fine and no reason for her to disappear
4. Soon it is shown he had been having affairs , one spanning several years, correspondence showing he said he was leaving his wife
5. Hires a lawyer the day his wife goes missing
6. Has a dodgy car accident on way to be interviewed by police, where he had his upper body injuries photographed
7. her phone is missing as are her Pjs
8. Body found under bridge, links to his background in scouting that he would of known of areas like this
9. Police seize car, find Allison's blood running down back door, only had car for 8 weeks
10. Changes story slightly , his family highlighting Allison is depressed to the worlds media days after she is missing
11. Never joins search for her
12. Issues with his phone being put on charge at 1.48am night she was missing despite him stating he was a heavy sleeper
13. SMS where are you, concerned not back from a walk at 6.30ish am
14. Mistress about to come face to face with his wife the next day at a conference, mistress angry the night before about this
15. Says he will be with mistress by July 1
16. Calling everyone asking for money as broke
17. Googles unusual things about 5th amendment etc prior to murder
18. Calls insurance company the day the body was found to start claim
These are only some things, but the jury only has to decide there is enough circumstantial evidence to prove guilt. My husband has cut himself at least once a month shaving, I showed him the photos of the scratches on his face and he stated "no way is that a shaving cut, no man could do that with a razor) Im sure lots of woman shave their legs and will agree also they have never cut themselves like that. What are the odds that the last person to see Allison alive at home, would cut his face up, have bruises and scratches over his torso he can not explain, crash his car into a pole that most believe was o purpose as it was so absurd, have his wifes blood all over a door in the back in a car they had for 8 weeks, have affairs and write emails saying he will be out of his marriage by 1st july, be broke, crying for money off people, hire a lawyer the day she went missing, not search for her as well as try and cash in an insurance policy the day her body was found.

Not t mention everything he has said and done to try and avert blame starting with the fairytale walk in the dark and trying t grow a beard that he had never been one to have a beard prior

Even my hard to crack husband says if he was on the jury, he would be going over the huge amount of coincidental items as well as his body language which is a science and made Alan Pease a millionaire, and said he would find it difficult to come up with anything other than pre meditated murder. What is the likelihood that someone happened by her house, kidnapped her off the couch, drove her to a bridge 13km away to not rape her and not rob her and go to so much effort to dispose of her if it was a random killing.

There is heaps of motive, but to me the one thing that stands out the most, is he didn't try and find her, and this is what my husband said. As much as I annoy him at times, if I, the mother of his children went missing, he would of been calling everyone while trying to find me and joining in on the search without rest..He would not of even thought about a lawyer or thought he needed one, he would of been doing everything in his power to find me....

Sorry for the long message, but sometimes when you fixate on something you can start to think things may turn out badly, from the perspective of someone like my husband who never follows media trials, even he thinks the amount of evidence is enough o convict of murder, so don't lose heart.. My heart goes out to the girls and the dickies, I can not say what I think of the BC's as I have read the rules on this forum but I do believe that what goes around comes around somewhere in the circle of life
 

MadDoc

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I so agree..but don't get me started on that one. Lets just say I was appalled at the sentence. Age should not come into it- he had a chance to live his life and continue abusing, while those he abused have had & will likely have a life sentence thanks to that abuse.

I agree that age should not come into it, but practically speaking, for an 84-year-old a 5 year sentence may well be a life sentence.
 

MsAnais

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Welcome amatteroftime!!

:welcome6:

Thank you for your thoughtful - and reassuring -post!!!
 

ollijack

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I just have to say you are all the nicest bunch of people. Poor Oddsocks is sad
And there is this wave of love goes out to her. I'm proud to be hanging
Out with you all xxxxxxxxxx
 

Oddsocks

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So sorry for your loss. At least you were together til the end?

Oh my this made me cry again. I soothed him and talked to him until I felt his breathing stop, even though I was highly distressed. I loved him and he loved me so much.

You guys might laugh or be repulsed when I tell you he was a big old black rat.
 

MsAnais

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Oh my this made me cry again. I soothed him and talked to him until I felt his breathing stop, even though I was highly distressed. I loved him and he loved me so much.

You guys might laugh or be repulsed when I tell you he was a big old black rat.

Not repulsed over here!! I LOVE rats!!

All animals are sacred!! Blessings to him *advertiser censored*
 

Tishy

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I'm having such a bad/sad day I wouldn't be surprised if he's acquitted just to add to today's crap.
One of my pets (aka best friend) died on the lounge next to me :'(

Ohhhhhhh Odd
So sorry
Biggest hug
 

FigTree

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Post #2 of todays Tweet & MSM threads continued…


• Jurors have been deliberating for more than 18 hours. Haven't heard from them yet today #badenclay @tennewsqld
• 18 hours, still no verdict @NewsTalk4BC #badenclay
• Jury deliberations in the #badenclay trial have entered their 18th hour @brisbanetimes
• The jury will usually deliberate until 4.15pm but can request to go later. #badenclay
• The jury has been deliberating now for around 18 hours. #badenclay
• ABC News 24 ‏@ABCNews24 2m
• As the jury deliberates a verdict at Gerard #BadenClay's trial, @francenenorton joins #ABCNews24 from outside courthttp://ab.co/abcnewsnow
• The jury is in Court 11 for another reading of summing up about circumstantial evidence #badenclay
• The jury in #badenclay trial has returned to the courtroom for the 5th time since deliberations began, another redirection @brisbanetimes
• #badenclay jury back in courtroom. No verdict though. @abcnews
• The jury is back in court. This is NOT a verdict. They have asked for the judge to repeat direction on circumstantial evidence. #badenclay
• The jury has sent a note to Justice Byrne, asking for more information about "circumstantial evidence". #badenclay
• Justice Byrne: "You should consider all the evidence, including circumstantial evidence". #badenclay
• Jury has been brought back into court. They have asked to be re-read judges direction on "circumstantial evidence" @9NewsBrisbane #badenclay
• To bring in a verdict of guilty on circumstantial evidence guilt should be the only rational inference, Justice Byrne #badenclay
• The jury has left the court, returning to deliberations #badenclay
• Justice John Byrne is re-reading parts of his summing up again, to do with circumstantial evidence.
• Justice Byrne: both direct and circumstantial evidence are to be considered. #badenclay @abcnews
• Judge: "If there is any reasonable possibility consistent with innocence, it is your duty to find the Accused not guilty." #badenclay
• Judge is reading instructions on circumstantial evidence to jury now #badenclay
• Jury back in #badenclay. Have asked for further reading of Judge's summary relating to circumstantial evidence. @abcnews
• Justice Byrne asks jury to return to deliberations. @abcnews #badenclay
• Judge says a case based entirely on circumstantial evidence means guilt should be only rational inference based on circumstances. #badenclay
• Justice Byrne asks the jurors to continue deliberating. They've been considering their verdict for more than 18 hours. #badenclay
• #badenclay jury just returned to courtroom to revisit part of the judge's summary that explained circumstantial evidence @NewsTalk4BC
• Jury in #badenclay trial asked for Justice John Byrne to re-read his directions about a circumstantial case @brisbanetimes
• Jury has left courtroom to continue deliberations @9NewsBrisbane #badenclay
• Jury has been sent back to continue with deliberations. #badenclay
• #badenclay jury requested: "Another reading of the application of circumstantial evidence to arrive at a verdict." @brisbanetimes
• The #badenclay jury returned to ask judge to re-read his summary regarding circumstantial evidence and verdict. @7NewsBrisbane
• Jury wanted to clarify meaning of circumstantial evidence @9NewsBrisbane #badenclay
• Jury has just been re-read section of Judge's summary relating to "circumstantial evidence & arriving at a verdict" #badenclay @tennewsqld
• #BadenClay jurors asks judge how they can use circumstantial evidence to reach a verdict. @7NewsBrisbane
• Jury continues to deliberate on day 20 of the trial of Gerard #BadenClay. The update on #TenNews 5pm
• #BadenClay jurors asks judge how they can use circumstantial evidence to reach a verdict. @7NewsBrisbane
• #BadenClay judge: "Both direct and circumstantial evidence are to be considered." @7NewsBrisbane
• #BadenClay judge: "It is not necessary that facts be proved by direct evidence." @7NewsBrisbane
• BadenClay judge: "They may be proved by circumstantial evidence alone, by direct evidence alone, or by a combination of direct and (cont)
• (cont) circumstantial: that is, both direct and circumstantial evidence are acceptable proof of facts." #BadenClay
• #BadenClay judge to jury: "So you should consider all the evidence, including circumstantial evidence." @7NewsBrisbane
• #BadenClay judge: "Importantly, to bring in a verdict of guilt based entirely, or substantially, on circumstantial evidence ... (cont)
• BadenClay judge to jury:"If there is any reasonable possibility consistent with innocence, it is your duty to find the Accused not guilty."
• #BadenClay judge: "It is not necessary that facts be proved by direct evidence." @7NewsBrisbane
• #BadenClay judge: "Both direct and circumstantial evidence are to be considered." @7NewsBrisbane
• #BadenClay judge: "They may be proved by circumstantial evidence alone, by direct evidence alone, or by a combination of direct and (cont)
• (cont) circumstantial: that is, both direct and circumstantial evidence are acceptable proof of facts." #BadenClay
• #BadenClay judge to jury: "So you should consider all the evidence, including circumstantial evidence." @7NewsBrisbane
• The jury will usually deliberate until 4.15pm but can request to go later. #badenclay
• For Justice Byrne's full redirection to the #badenclay jury on circumstantial evidence, check @australian website shortly. I'll tweet link.
• Jury gone home for the day. Back tmw #badenclay
• The jury has gone home for the day. Back again tomorrow. #badenclay
• That's it for the day. The jury has been sent home, will continue deliberations tomorrow #badenclay
• Jurors in Baden Clay trial end their third day of deliberations without a verdict.#badenclay
• Baden-Clay jury has been sent home they'll continue deliberations tomorrow @9NewsBrisbane #badenclay
• No #badenclay verdict today - jury has gone home @9NewsBrisbane
• Jury done for the day. Still no verdict. Back tomorrow for a fourth day of deliberations. #badenclay @abcnews
• We understand the jury has left the Supreme Court for the day. Deliberations will continue tomorrow from 9am #badenclay @brisbanetimes
• No verdict today. Jurors are done for the day in #badenclay trial. They'll be back tomorrow. @9NewsBrisbane
• No verdict today. The #badenclay jury has gone home. They'll continue deliberating tomorrow. @7NewsBrisbane
• No verdict today. 19 hours and counting #badenclay
-----------
Baden-Clay has pleaded not guilty in the Supreme Court in Brisbane.
The jury was given a redirection by Justice John Byrne at 3.51pm, after they had been deliberating for almost 19 hours.
The jury via a note asked for another reading to explain “the process, meaning and application of circumstantial evidence to arrive at a verdict”.
Justice Byrne reread to the jury a passage from his summing up.
“As no one claims to have seen the accused kill his wife, this is a circumstantial case. Circumstantial evidence is evidence of circumstances that can be relied upon not as proving fact directly, but instead as pointing to its existence,” he said.
“It differs from direct evidence, which tends to prove a fact directly, typically when a witness testifies about something which that witness saw or heard.
“Both direct and circumstantial evidence are to be considered. It is not necessary for a fact to be proved by direct evidence. They may be proved by circumstantial evidence alone, by direct evidence alone or by a combination of direct and circumstantial, that is, both direct and circumstantial evidence are acceptable proof of facts.
“So you should consider all the evidence, including circumstantial evidence.
“Importantly, to bring in a verdict of guilty based entirely, or substantially, on circumstantial evidence, guilt should not only be a rational inference: it must be the only rational inference that could be drawn from the circumstances.
“If there is any reasonable possibility consistent with innocence, it is your duty to find the accused not guilty. This follows from the requirement that guilt must be established beyond reasonable doubt.”
Justice Byrne asked the jury to return to its deliberations at 3.55pm.
The jury of seven men and five women retired to consider a verdict on Thursday at 11.10am.
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/q...-1226987798654


MSM TWEETERS
Kate Kyriacou ‏@KateKyriacou
Marissa Calligeros ‏@marissa_sc
Sarah Greenhalgh ‏@GreenhalghSarah
Jamie McKinnell ‏@jamie86
Tessa Scott ‏@TessaScott9
Sarah Elks ‏@sarahelks
Katrina Blowers ‏@katrinablowers
David Murray ‏@TheMurrayD
TimArvier ‏@TimArvier9
Ebony Cavallaro ‏@ebonycavallaro
Nine News Brisbane ‏@9NewsBrisbane
Triple M Brisbane ‏@TripleMBrisbane
Sky News Australia ‏@SkyNewsAust
Elizabeth Tilley ‏@liztilley84
7News Brisbane ‏@7NewsBrisbane
Michael Kersnovske ‏@MKersnovske
Emmy Kubainski ‏@emmykubainski
Francene Norton ‏@francenenorton


Full PDF version of Todays Tweets on the thread:
 

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Greg

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I have followed this case from the beginning and have spent the last few weeks reading thousands of pages on this forum, I had a discussion with my husband last night , who happens to be a " black and with no shades of grey" type of guy. He asked me to summarise the evidence presented and see if I could convince him he was guilty...
1.The accused has called police early one morning reporting his wife missing
2. Police notice straight away the scratches on his face, accused gives long ramble about shaving cuts and owning a RE agency
3. Tells police she must have gone for a walk in the night or early AM, doesn't look for her before calling police, tells police she is fine and no reason for her to disappear
4. Soon it is shown he had been having affairs , one spanning several years, correspondence showing he said he was leaving his wife
5. Hires a lawyer the day his wife goes missing
6. Has a dodgy car accident on way to be interviewed by police, where he had his upper body injuries photographed
7. her phone is missing as are her Pjs
8. Body found under bridge, links to his background in scouting that he would of known of areas like this
9. Police seize car, find Allison's blood running down back door, only had car for 8 weeks
10. Changes story slightly , his family highlighting Allison is depressed to the worlds media days after she is missing
11. Never joins search for her
12. Issues with his phone being put on charge at 1.48am night she was missing despite him stating he was a heavy sleeper
13. SMS where are you, concerned not back from a walk at 6.30ish am
14. Mistress about to come face to face with his wife the next day at a conference, mistress angry the night before about this
15. Says he will be with mistress by July 1
16. Calling everyone asking for money as broke
17. Googles unusual things about 5th amendment etc prior to murder
18. Calls insurance company the day the body was found to start claim
These are only some things, but the jury only has to decide there is enough circumstantial evidence to prove guilt. My husband has cut himself at least once a month shaving, I showed him the photos of the scratches on his face and he stated "no way is that a shaving cut, no man could do that with a razor) Im sure lots of woman shave their legs and will agree also they have never cut themselves like that. What are the odds that the last person to see Allison alive at home, would cut his face up, have bruises and scratches over his torso he can not explain, crash his car into a pole that most believe was o purpose as it was so absurd, have his wifes blood all over a door in the back in a car they had for 8 weeks, have affairs and write emails saying he will be out of his marriage by 1st july, be broke, crying for money off people, hire a lawyer the day she went missing, not search for her as well as try and cash in an insurance policy the day her body was found.

Not t mention everything he has said and done to try and avert blame starting with the fairytale walk in the dark and trying t grow a beard that he had never been one to have a beard prior

Even my hard to crack husband says if he was on the jury, he would be going over the huge amount of coincidental items as well as his body language which is a science and made Alan Pease a millionaire, and said he would find it difficult to come up with anything other than pre meditated murder. What is the likelihood that someone happened by her house, kidnapped her off the couch, drove her to a bridge 13km away to not rape her and not rob her and go to so much effort to dispose of her if it was a random killing.

There is heaps of motive, but to me the one thing that stands out the most, is he didn't try and find her, and this is what my husband said. As much as I annoy him at times, if I, the mother of his children went missing, he would of been calling everyone while trying to find me and joining in on the search without rest..He would not of even thought about a lawyer or thought he needed one, he would of been doing everything in his power to find me....

Sorry for the long message, but sometimes when you fixate on something you can start to think things may turn out badly, from the perspective of someone like my husband who never follows media trials, even he thinks the amount of evidence is enough o convict of murder, so don't lose heart.. My heart goes out to the girls and the dickies, I can not say what I think of the BC's as I have read the rules on this forum but I do believe that what goes around comes around somewhere in the circle of life

thats right he never tried to find her just wanted to get on with life and get his <modsnip> sister in front of the cameras every 2 seconds to tell everyone how A suffered depression......

GUILTY AS CHARGED!!!! <modsnip>
 

Anonthemouse

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Oh my this made me cry again. I soothed him and talked to him until I felt his breathing stop, even though I was highly distressed. I loved him and he loved me so much.

You guys might laugh or be repulsed when I tell you he was a big old black rat.

Small pawprints then :)
 

UnfoldingTruth

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I agree that age should not come into it, but practically speaking, for an 84-year-old a 5 year sentence may well be a life sentence.

Except he will be lucky to serve half of that. And I really still don't think it matters. But as I said, if i get started.. well... I have strong opinions on it and may be here for awhile!
 

DunnoZo

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Oh Oddsocks, so sorry for you. You would have been it's best friend too. I planted some sunflower seeds today, don't know if the season's right, but they can be in honour of your friend, WS style! you are really quite a nice bunch, imo.
 

Freya1977

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Oh my this made me cry again. I soothed him and talked to him until I felt his breathing stop, even though I was highly distressed. I loved him and he loved me so much.

You guys might laugh or be repulsed when I tell you he was a big old black rat.
Awww I used to have rats, and they are wonderful, loving pets. I had a couple of black ones, a white one and some hooded in different colours. I gave up keeping them as I found it so sad that they only live a few years and I seemed to always be saying goodbye. I sure do miss them though.
 

Smegal

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Oh my this made me cry again. I soothed him and talked to him until I felt his breathing stop, even though I was highly distressed. I loved him and he loved me so much.

You guys might laugh or be repulsed when I tell you he was a big old black rat.

No way, not at all, pets are pets and they come in all shapes and sizes! Big hugs
 
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