Discussion in 'JonBenet Ramsey' started by madeleine, Apr 20, 2010.
Okay,so everybody's avoiding the Fleet W/John R issue.....maybe a poll will help me out here
I don't know anything about it. Is it that JR and FW were friends before but not now?
Well my problem here is...FW moved the suitcase up under the window...He thought JonBenet was hiding with a RN stating different...But the poll,I don't know how to honestly answer that cause I really don't know..But FW actions are strange...
Very convenient,what's the big deal,some friends breaking up.Only it wasn't like this.It started with a murder.
Q. Has Fleet White ever made any
23 statement to you about his opinion on who
24 killed JonBenet Ramsey?
25 A.(Steve Thomas) Mr. White has always been very
1 careful with his language around me, as is
2 his wife and I don't know that I could sit
3 here and say today that he has come out and
4 made a declaration as to who he believes
5 killed JonBenet Ramsey. But the tone and
6 inferences of some of these conversations made
7 it fairly clear to me. 8 Q. You think you understood from the
9 tone and inferences what he was trying to say
10 but not saying directly; is that your
12 A. I think I believe that I know who
13 Fleet has in mind as the offender in this
Q. (By Mr. Levin) Hang on. I
21 suppose what I'm -- I don't mean to cut you
22 off, Mr. Ramsey, obviously. But what I am
23 interested in, I mean, we had a list of
24 names that you provided early on, and I was
25 interested if there are recent people. I
1 mean, obviously we've looked at Chris Wolf
2 and we looked at Fleet and we've looked at
Q And generally speaking, what were you doing in Georgia?
20 A We went to Georgia to basically just do background
21 investigations. We got some information that there had been
22 a major fight in the house between Mr. Ramsey and one of the
23 other people that were there. I dont remember --
24 Q Does Mr. White ring a bell?
25 A White, thats who it was, Mr. White, and we had heard
LARRY MASON - DIRECT (JONES)
1 that there was problems there in the house, and we wanted to
2 find out what was going on.
Why did FW tease the cops,maybe I could tell you that the R's own high tech boots?It's in PMPT or ST's book somewhere,I quoted it not long ago.
You just nailed it, HOTYH. Before the killing happened, they were very close. After JB's death, their relationship not only dissolved but became very antagonistic.
It seems like FW may have wanted to just come out and SAY that he thought the Rs were involved in the death of their daughter, but my impression is that he knew that if he did, the Rs would be much more vocal in pointing a finger at HIM for the murder. The Rs were already making noise about things that "looking back on" they told LE were suspicious about the White's behavior Christmas Day. Of course, the "suspicious" things were nonsense- it was JR who ASKED that a plate of cracked crab be held out for JB. Yet he tells LE how odd he thought it was. No one in LE ever confronted JR about this either. And I'd bet NO one at the house in Atlanta was ever asked specifically about EXACTLY what words were exchanged between JR and FW.
FW was in the Boulder house the morning of the 26th, his prints were all over. He admitted moving the suitcase. He TOUCHED things related to the crime, including admitting that he picked up the tape that was on JB's mouth.
While those things may not have been enough to convict him, or even indict him, he doesn't match the touch DNA either, so it may not have gone very far.
BUT enough to destroy his life, a fact I am sure strongly pointed out to him by the R defense lawyers.
I think FW felt he really couldn't say what he felt happened. He hoped the investigation would sort it out. Boy, was he wrong...
BTW, I'd have LOVED to see LE call JR out about exactly WHO was included in his statement that "a lot of people were here at 3 in the morning." Because according to the Rs, only 4 people were in the house at 3 in the morning.. a sleeping JR, Patsy, BR and a (by then, dead) JB.
In my 'half-baked' theory, there is an as yet unidentified female person who had a grudge against JR and thought he 'owed' her and wanted to punish and scare him. JR knew as soon as he saw the RN who had written it and why. There were 'in jokes' in the RN and it was obviously 'her work'. He did not believe for one minute that it was a genuine kidnapping by a foreign group, nor did he really think that 'she' would harm JBR. Still, he was spooked and wanted JBR back ASAP as he now knew 'she' was mentally unstable and had gone too far by taking JBR. The Whites were the first people there and I believe FW was told who and why (although I sort of think he may have known the story anyway). PR did not know about 'her' or what had happened to cause this and JR did not want her to know either. FW thought JBR might still be in the house initially and this is why he searched, despite the RN, though he didn't look hard enough. When JR found her, FW immediately ran to the phone. Who was he going to call??
So, to the fight. FW thought JR should tell the cops who had done it. JR said it was too late for that now, it would serve no purpose. 'She' was no danger to anyone else and it was the lawyer's opinion that 'she' would not be convicted of murder as 'she' was not mentally fit to stand trial and hadn't intended to kill JBR. JR didn't want the whole sorry tale to come out, as it would reflect very badly on him, this is why the separate lawyers. What was done could not be undone. FW thought he should make a clean breast of it and cop the flak - afterall, it was PR who was under the 'umbrella of suspicion', and she didn't deserve to suffer first the killing of her child then to have to defend herself.
When the cops asked who might be involved, JR named FW amongst others! This was the final straw - first not telling, then trying to divert attention to others. Still despite this FW has stayed quiet all this time and 'towed the line'. He must be busting to tell!!
This sounds good, but of course, to me- the "she" is Patsy.
I agree that FW wanted JR to tell police the truth about what happened that night instead of devising this elaborate scheme about a kidnapping/murder. When JR refused, it must have seemed outrageous to FW, and he realized just how quickly his friend became an enemy. Once the Rs began to point a finger in the White's direction, there was no way FW was going to come out and say what he thought (or knew) about who was responsible for JB's death.
Yes, regardless of which theory you favour, it seems FW knew what happened at the very least. I don't feel he was involved in the killing at all, but it is likely he knew the 'secret' JR didn't want disclosed.
Or, it seems FW knew nothing about any relevant secrets as there were none?
Then why did he imply to ST that he knows who the killer is?And it's obvious who he had in mind,I don't think he would have become ST's buddy if he thought an intruder killed JB.
I find it hard to believe that this fight was all about ego,would mean that neither of them cared about this child.
And what about FW's actions,he arrives at 6.03 and at 6.06 he checks the basement.Is it another coincidence,straight to the crime scene.And JR's trips to the basement.One opens the door and sees nothing (claiming that he didn't know where the switch was,but others confirm he was there shortly before the murder) and the other opens the same door and instantly sees the blanket.
Don't you think that one of them is lying?I am still not sure which one,that's what I am trying to find out. (mission impossible,I know)
That would make him a coward in my eyes.FW was a tough cookie,he had connections.It doesn't seem to me that he would have been afraid of JR.He should have said something,he pretends to want justice for JB.IMO there's something else going on.Speak up or shut up IMO.
The R's pointed fingers at him AFTER he acted weird.Why was it his business that they gave the CNN interview or that they lawyered up.I would lawyer up as well if I knew the cops are thinking like this :
"Police were struck by the oddity of diapers being used in a household with kids aged nine and six,particularly when viewed in light of the bed-fouling report about Jonbenet.We had to determine if that was somehow related to her death."
Bed-fouling report coming from the housekeeper who was their first suspect back then.You gotta be kidding me.
They wanted to connect this alledged bed-wetting problem with the murder when the search of the house wasn't even over,so much for LE being unbiased.
I have to agree with HOTYH on this one.Doesn't matter how silly the RN sounded or how fake it seemed,they didn't even bother to check things out ,they should have!Ron Walker told them day one that they should look at the parents cause the RN is bogus and that's what they did.
Despite the new evidence, Ramsey is still haunted by suspicions that a close friend with access to the house had some role in the murder, and he questions this persons alibi.
Michael Archuleta, who was the pilot of Johns King Air Jet, and his wife, Pamalso speaking publicly for the first timeshare Ramseys suspicions.
Yet Ramseys suspicions persist. Asked directly if he thinks this acquaintance killed JonBenet, Ramsey says, "Oh, I don't think so, But then he proceeds to poke holes in the mans alibi and describe how the Boulder police botched the investigation from the beginning. Moreover, Pam and Michael Archuleta, who remained close to the Ramseys and are also speaking publicly for the first time, tick off circumstantial evidence that they believe points to this man. Asked about the new samples of stranger DNA, Michael, who was the pilot of John Ramseys King Air jet, adds, perhaps this person's DNA was not found because he hired someone to do it for him."
Interesting. For JR to name FW as a suspect, given your theory, he had a lot to lose. If he needed FW's cooperation not to spill the beans about the true identity of the killer, he risked everything by pointing a finger at his confidant.
No, on the contrary, it would have been more suspicious if FW had been left off the list. I don't think FW was in any danger of being seriously considered as a suspect - still he hasn't been cleared either as far as I am aware!
IIRC he was cleared by M.Lacy at the same time she exonerated the Ramsey's because their DNA didn't match.
But IIRC Hunter&DA office "cleared" him back then too only to keep his mouth shut.
He told the chief that unless they did something to appease White,they might lose an important witness.
Perhaps I have my timeline all confused - but, sometimes I think it's because Fleet knew there was no body there earlier - and then, presto, it's there. He knew it wasn't there, because he checked that room. He knew something was afoot.
I still wonder that the R.'s thought they'd smuggle her body out. They still had planned to fly out to Atlanta. (and what the heck kind of parents do that when there child is supposedly abducted! :waitasec
I can't recall if they planned on leaving before or after her body was found. I do recall JR calling a lawyer pretty pronto. Forget the 'small foreign faction' - they were in it deep & they would have known just how, of course.
Anyway, I think FW put two & two together. But, why not just tell the truth - if he knew what really happened that night (which he might not have - he just knew there was no body at first).
Forgive me if I'm getting my timeline confused, etc. It's been awhile since I've pondered this all!
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