The "war",what was it all about

[DeeDee249]

Perhaps I have my timeline all confused - but, sometimes I think it's because Fleet knew there was no body there earlier - and then, presto, it's there. He knew it wasn't there, because he checked that room. He knew something was afoot.

I still wonder that the R.'s thought they'd smuggle her body out. They still had planned to fly out to Atlanta. (and what the heck kind of parents do that when there child is supposedly abducted! :waitasec

I can't recall if they planned on leaving before or after her body was found. I do recall JR calling a lawyer pretty pronto. Forget the 'small foreign faction' - they were in it deep & they would have known just how, of course.

Anyway, I think FW put two & two together. But, why not just tell the truth - if he knew what really happened that night (which he might not have - he just knew there was no body at first).

Forgive me if I'm getting my timeline confused, etc. It's been awhile since I've pondered this all!

JR tried to arrange a flight to Atlanta right AFTER he found JB's body. Police heard him, and informed him he couldn't leave.

 

[MurriFlower]

Perhaps I have my timeline all confused - but, sometimes I think it's because Fleet knew there was no body there earlier - and then, presto, it's there. He knew it wasn't there, because he checked that room. He knew something was afoot.

I still wonder that the R.'s thought they'd smuggle her body out. They still had planned to fly out to Atlanta. (and what the heck kind of parents do that when there child is supposedly abducted! :waitasec

I can't recall if they planned on leaving before or after her body was found. I do recall JR calling a lawyer pretty pronto. Forget the 'small foreign faction' - they were in it deep & they would have known just how, of course.

Anyway, I think FW put two & two together. But, why not just tell the truth - if he knew what really happened that night (which he might not have - he just knew there was no body at first).

Forgive me if I'm getting my timeline confused, etc. It's been awhile since I've pondered this all!

The way I read it, it was not till after the body was found he phoned the pilot to arrange to leave. The cops were trying to get them out and told them they couldn't stay in the house. JR made plans to go to their 'other' house. Remember they were not able at that time to take anything with them, clothes or other possessions, so in effect it was a bit like the aftermath of a fire where everything is gone as well as one member of the family. Makes perfect sense to me that they would want to leave for their other house where they had spare clothes etc. and where the older children could stay with them. Then they were told they couldn't leave Boulder, so friends arranged for them to stay.

Yeah the FW thing makes me think also that he knew something. Fancy him guessing that JBR might be hiding in the 'crawl space' eventhough there was a RN implying she had been 'taken' somewhere. Doesn't make sense does it?

 

[Jane Osa]

Thanks, DeeDee and Murriflower for correcting my timeline! I come & go on this case - I get so intensely focussed and then I have to let it go for awhile...but, I forget some stuff in the meantime. i should create some spreadsheet, or something! The thing is - I don't read mysteries, I don't like even PG 13 violence & contemplating why/how/who would want to kill whom makes me sick. It was only the 'exoneration' of the Rs the other year that I 'investigated' & got sucked into the chaos of the case. And I keep coming back. I'm just so sorry JB is gone. Anyway you look at it it's simply tragic and just so sad. Wish she were here. OK, enough, then - onward!

FW knew something. He must have felt it wasn't, on it's own, convincing enough to put himself 'out there' for. What he 'knew' or thinks he 'knows' could simply be that there was no body, and then there was. Maybe he's right maybe he's wrong & he could be aware of that - enough so that he just backed off. Though, clearly, he suspected the R.s.

 

[DeeDee249]

The way I read it, it was not till after the body was found he phoned the pilot to arrange to leave. The cops were trying to get them out and told them they couldn't stay in the house. JR made plans to go to their 'other' house. Remember they were not able at that time to take anything with them, clothes or other possessions, so in effect it was a bit like the aftermath of a fire where everything is gone as well as one member of the family. Makes perfect sense to me that they would want to leave for their other house where they had spare clothes etc. and where the older children could stay with them. Then they were told they couldn't leave Boulder, so friends arranged for them to stay.

Yeah the FW thing makes me think also that he knew something. Fancy him guessing that JBR might be hiding in the 'crawl space' eventhough there was a RN implying she had been 'taken' somewhere. Doesn't make sense does it?

But JR was overheard making flight arrangements to go to Atlanta after JB was found, not their "other house" in Charlevoix. Going to Charlevoix was the original plan, which was cancelled for obvious reasons. What I am trying to find (and I haven't been able to find it) is when JR called to cancel that original fight scheduled for 7 AM that morning.

 

[MurriFlower]

But JR was overheard making flight arrangements to go to Atlanta after JB was found, not their "other house" in Charlevoix. Going to Charlevoix was the original plan, which was cancelled for obvious reasons. What I am trying to find (and I haven't been able to find it) is when JR called to cancel that original fight scheduled for 7 AM that morning.

Ok, just googled it. Boy that's a long way from Boulder too. Lucky they had an aircraft at their disposal! Why did they have a house there? Is it like a resort or something?

I think the Pilot called to pick them up at the appointed time, at least I think I read that. That was when he was accused of taking a 'box of evidence' from JR. Later JR called him to arrange the flight (to Atlanta?) and was told not to leave Boulder.

 

[RTC]

Im starting to think that the two hours that JR was missing he wasnt getting the mail but calling his lawyers away from the house. I think he was putting the pieces together from the tips in the RN but wasnt completly sure who did the bashing, PR or BR.
Maybe since this is a lawyer/client conversation and private, POOF phone records not available or missing.......and completly legal. NO?

 

[MurriFlower]

Im starting to think that the two hours that JR was missing he wasnt getting the mail but calling his lawyers away from the house. I think he was putting the pieces together from the tips in the RN but wasnt completly sure who did the bashing, PR or BR.
Maybe since this is a lawyer/client conversation and private, POOF phone records not available or missing.......and completly legal. NO?

two hours that JR was missing I don't think this is correct.

 

[DeeDee249]

two hours that JR was missing I don't think this is correct.

This is Det. Arndt's account of how long she was unable to account for JR's presence in the house. She really has no idea if he actually left the house. And he certainly did not need to leave the house to to get the mail. It was delivered through a mail slot right in their front door. It was Arndt who "assumed" he had gone to "get his mail" (her words) because she later saw him going through his mail.

 

[DeeDee249]

Ok, just googled it. Boy that's a long way from Boulder too. Lucky they had an aircraft at their disposal! Why did they have a house there? Is it like a resort or something?

I think the Pilot called to pick them up at the appointed time, at least I think I read that. That was when he was accused of taking a 'box of evidence' from JR. Later JR called him to arrange the flight (to Atlanta?) and was told not to leave Boulder.

Charlevoix is a beautiful resort area. Lots of water sports. The Rs were a boating family. (you know- experience tying knots and all that).

 

[Tadpole12]

Ok, just googled it. Boy that's a long way from Boulder too. Lucky they had an aircraft at their disposal! Why did they have a house there? Is it like a resort or something?

I think the Pilot called to pick them up at the appointed time, at least I think I read that. That was when he was accused of taking a 'box of evidence' from JR. Later JR called him to arrange the flight (to Atlanta?) and was told not to leave Boulder.

Hi MurriFlower.

I have never read that particular, about a box of evidence taken from JR.
Is the tidbit from a book? or was it tabloid fare?

 

[MurriFlower]

This is Det. Arndt's account of how long she was unable to account for JR's presence in the house. She really has no idea if he actually left the house. And he certainly did not need to leave the house to to get the mail. It was delivered through a mail slot right in their front door. It was Arndt who "assumed" he had gone to "get his mail" (her words) because she later saw him going through his mail.

She clarified this in her deposition:

"Q. And you had lost track of John Ramsey for a period between 10:40 and twelve o'clock?
A. No.
Q. You didn't see him during that period of time; is that correct?
A. No.
Q. It's not correct?
A. That is not correct.
Q. Didn't you report - all right. You said sometime between 10:40 and 12:00 he went out to pick up the mail.
A. No.
Q. What did you say?
A. I believe I worded it in my report rather vaguely, and what I worded and what has been put out in the media are not the same. I said something during that time frame I saw John reading his mail.
Q. We will get back to that later. But there was a period when you lost contact with him, is that right, personal contact with him?
A. I did not watch John Ramsey the entire time."

The fact was it was she who wasn't paying attention to what JR was doing. She cannot say it was his mail, he could have been reading anything. It's an RDI myth that he went out to get the mail.

 

[DeeDee249]

How can you say that when your quote of Arndt's statements clearly say that SHE said she saw him reading his mail. And she also stated that the assumption he was gone for 2 hours to "get his mail" was misinformation that was out there. I see nothing to indicate it was the "fault" of RDI.

 

[MurriFlower]

How can you say that when your quote of Arndt's statements clearly say that SHE said she saw him reading his mail. And she also stated that the assumption he was gone for 2 hours to "get his mail" was misinformation that was out there. I see nothing to indicate it was the "fault" of RDI.

Well, I guess you won't say 'he went out to get his mail' in future, now you know that is not correct?

She saw him reading something, perhaps it was in an envelope, she assumed it was mail, it could have been anything.

 

[DeeDee249]

Well, I guess you won't say 'he went out to get his mail' in future, now you know that is not correct?

She saw him reading something, perhaps it was in an envelope, she assumed it was mail, it could have been anything.

I have NEVER said he went out to get his mail. I said Det. Arndt said he went out to get his mail and every time I said it I pointed out that it was likely not true.
I have never believed JR left the house that day.

 

[MurriFlower]

How can you say that when your quote of Arndt's statements clearly say that SHE said she saw him reading his mail. And she also stated that the assumption he was gone for 2 hours to "get his mail" was misinformation that was out there. I see nothing to indicate it was the "fault" of RDI.

When I say "RDI" I'm not referring exclusively to people on this forum. The BPD were RDI. Some/most of their 'experts' were RDI. The Tabloids were RDI. Even LHP was RDI. RDI is a state of mind.

 

[MurriFlower]

Hi MurriFlower.

I have never read that particular, about a box of evidence taken from JR.
Is the tidbit from a book? or was it tabloid fare?

Yes, you're right TP, it was just a tabloid rumour.

"Mike was rumored in a tabloid to have gone to the home to pick up the Ramsey's that morning and to have been given a box by John Ramsey. Archuleta denies it."

According to ACR:

"John Ramsey called Archuleta early 12-26-1996 but pilot was in transit, Co-pilot Richard Bjelkovig took the call. When Archuleta called back, hysterical Patsy answered the phone. Archuleta was to notify the commercial airline the Ramsey's children were arriving from Atlanta and leave word to call their father"
and
"1:30 P.M. John Ramsey called Archuleta at home, said, "She's gone," "They've killed her" then instructions to ready flight to Atlanta"
and later
"3:00 P.M. Fleet White called Archuleta to cancel Atlanta flight"

 

[RTC]

RDI is not a state of mind and I resent that. Noone wants to believe that this is what transpired but this is where the evidence leads. All the hoopla and what ifs.... and what could be possible... that an intruder came in.... clouds common sense of where the evidence leads.Every scenario can have an alternate scenario if creative enough.
There is a case that I followed on this forum years ago. I am from So Cal. Her name was Danielle Van Damn, a beautiful seven year old from San Diego. Her abduction story and murder was so unbelievable. The parents looked like prime suspects under the circumstances of her disappearance. Their behavior and there quest for the truth and the return of the daughter was their first priority. They were put under the microscope but they did everything law enforcement asked them to and paid for it in the tabloids. When your child is missing you should want to die trying to get them back not try to protect yourself. This is what they taught me in their true behavior. God Bless the Van Damn Family.
Ramseys not so much!
Also the SD police department along with the parents gave out all the info, held nothing back and the community helped solve the crime. After all this time Boulder should just put it all out there and see what happens. I hate knowing that much is tabloid fiction when we can have true facts. Lets face it, it is alot cheaper to put out the actual case facts then hold them back until a special investigation team gets funded. The community will be able to sniff out something if it not too late.

 

[Tadpole12]

Hey MF.

I missed the all the tabloid coverage of the case, but it surely was a frenzy. The case is frequently referenced as an example of media justice.

The tabs:
http://extras.denverpost.com/news/jon34.htm

 

[MurriFlower]

Hey MF.

I missed the all the tabloid coverage of the case, but it surely was a frenzy. The case is frequently referenced as an example of media justice.

The tabs:
http://extras.denverpost.com/news/jon34.htm

Oh boy!! Almost makes you :sick:

Even the methods employed by the 'reputable' news media should be treated with suspicion. I recall that in my own home town where a murder occurred, the city media, who were keen to portray it as a racist killing, were seen buying alcohol for a group of local men who were interviewed for TV and after being suitably 'loosened up' provided just the content they were looking for.

 

[RTC]

Hmmmm lets remember who started this frenzy. Who spoke to the media before the cops? I still am curious who set up the initial Ramsey media interview. A tatic ahead of its time but one that caused much confusion and created reasonable doubt. A tool that worked.

I believe the R tears were real and they were suffering, this is why so many people sided with them but I also believe that they know what happened to their Baby or else their anger would have shined through. Anger is a natural emotion after loss. They were so apathetic that it made me angry. They didnt fight for Her justice, Her life, Her.