Theories: How Would Elizabeth have killed Gabe?

Discussion in 'Gabriel Johnson' started by BeanE, Apr 15, 2010.

  1. BeanE

    BeanE Inactive

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    This thread is to develop and discuss theories of how Elizabeth would have killed Gabe, if she did so.

    Consider whether or not it was premeditated.

    Consider identifying at what point she might have started thinking about it, at what point she might have started to plan it, and at what point she might have started to put the plan into effect. What known facts support these different points?

    Would she have killed Gabe at the hotel or elsewhere? If elsewhere, where? why?

    Where would she have disposed of his body? Where she killed him or elsewhere?

    Pull out those maps and identify candidate spots for both the murder and the disposal.

    This is going to be tough for many of us, but it's time to get down and dirty, and figure out all aspects of what might have happened to Gabe, for those who can, when we can.

    calling all angels
    calling all angels
    walk me through this one
    don't leave me alone
    calling all angels
    calling all angels
    we're cryin' and we're hurtin'
    and we're not sure why...

    and every day you gaze upon the sunset
    with such love and intensity
    it's almost...it's almost as if
    if you could only crack the code
    then you'd finally understand what this all means

    calling all angels
    calling all angels
    walk me through this one
    don't leave me alone
    callin' all angels
    callin' all angels
    we're tryin'
    we're hopin'
    we're hurtin'
    we're lovin'
    we're cryin'
    we're callin'
    'cause we're not sure how this goes


    from Calling All Angels
    Jane Siberry with k.d.lang

    We love you, Gabe.
     
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  3. iluvmua

    iluvmua New Member

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    Smother him or drown him is what I'm thinking.
    Maybe drive out to Victoria to dispose of the body since her cell phone pinged out there.
    if I was LE I'd drive out there just to make sure his body was not out there somewhere.

    I'd feel awful if that area was not searched and that happens to be where his body was.
     
  4. kissdegirl

    kissdegirl New Member

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    I hate this.

    This clip from the KPHO video has always bothered me. I thought, she probably drowned him, maybe during his bathtime the night of the 26th. I thought, since she did it in water, she may have disposed of him in water since it was on her mind, and a ditch made sense, since it was right there. I reviewed the weather for that date, and it didn't rain, so water wouldn't be flowing in there, but I wondered if maybe she could have walked along the ditch to a more hidden area or a tunnel and left him there, thinking that the next rain would wash him away.

    I hate to even acknowledge these thoughts. I'm not ready. I think he's still out there alive.

    http://www.kpho.com/video/22494329/index.html

    Sa 12/26 Hi 60, Lo 33, Mostly Sunny
    Su 12/27 Hi 61, Lo 33, Overcast


    [​IMG]
     
  5. smart blonde

    smart blonde Websleuths Member

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    In my opinion, Elizabeth, in a fit of rage born of anger and frustration...

    * smothered him with a pillow, or

    * drowned him in the motel bathroom, or

    * forced/ allowed him to overdose on medicine.

    I have felt from the beginning though, that Elizabeth probably smothered Gabriel with a pillow in the motel room.

    So completely senseless. That poor baby.
     
  6. BeanE

    BeanE Inactive

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    I hate it too, kiss.

    Because of Elizabeth's long history with physical violence, in which she becomes enraged, and then strikes out physically, I think that is what would have happened. I think she was simmering that week, and that her rage would have grown, and she would have killed Gabe violently. A combination of shaking him and strangling him.

    I think she would, at some point, realized she crossed the point of no return, and taken him somewhere else. Because 'park' was on her mind, I think a park or someplace that looks like a park - forest, woods, treed area. I think there, she may have made sure he was dead and/or, again realizing she was past the point of no return, unleashed her full rage, not just towards Logan, because I don't think it would have been about just Logan, but a lifetime of rage towards everyone.

    I think she would have disposed of him in the same place. Possibly put him in a dumpster if one was nearby in the park-like place.

    What I can't see her doing is 'gently', 'quietly' suffocating or overdosing him alone. She's just not a gentle, quiet person.

    I think any future efforts to search for Gabe's body should look further in the landfill, and also look to parks first, then park-like settings. All near the hotel. I don't think she'd have gone far at all.
     
  7. kissdegirl

    kissdegirl New Member

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    These are all clickable, so as not to hog the thread. I have followed the ditch as best I could, first up to the interstate, then South off Prue rd. Ironic that there's a ditch, wooded area, and SAPD right there.

    View of ditch outside hotel
    [​IMG]
    From the interstate, looking South to the hotel
    [​IMG]
    From Prue Rd looking North toward hotel
    [​IMG]
    From Prue Rd looking South to wooded area (SAPD is on your right)...kiss my behind suckers comes to mind.
    [​IMG]
    Aerial veiw with my best guess as to the ditch path.
    [​IMG]
     
  8. kissdegirl

    kissdegirl New Member

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    I guess I have 2 ideas as to where he could be, if she killed him. 1st, is near the hotel because she would not want to risk being caught with him in her car to go get rid of him. I would guess she would go into a wooded are near the hotel when it was dark. In fact, if I lived there I would go for a walk through those wooded areas S. of the hotel and SAPD on Prue Rd.

    My 2nd thought is there may be some small truth the Victoria, TX rumor. Some of the other rumors that have come to light are not exactly what the rumors were (like the park, similar but not exact). So, maybe then she did drive South toward Victoria to get rid of him. But where? Would she have just driven blindly or would she have mapped something out on her GPS?

    Does Victoria use the same landfill as SA?
     
  9. BeanE

    BeanE Inactive

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    We mapped out some times in one of these threads for Victoria. We've got a little more info now, so maybe we can pull that info in here, toss in the new info, and see what we come up with.

    Statistically, moms stay close to home, and the hotel in this case would have been her home point, but Elizabeth is an odd duck - I agree we need to look at Victoria and the route there.

    The Victoria info might be in the Roadtrip thread.
     
  10. kissdegirl

    kissdegirl New Member

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    I was thinking she would stay close to the hotel...that being her "home" while in SA. Her being so familiar with the area with her running around, I can also see how she would be able to tell LM the "exact location of...Gabriel" if it was familiar to her when she was in her safe location.
     
  11. BeanE

    BeanE Inactive

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    A child's body has been found in a Texas park. The thread is here:

    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=101584"]TX - Child's Body Found - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

    Please track the situation in that thread.

    BeanE
     
  12. Khristi

    Khristi New Member

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    I Think because of Elizabeth's past- she would have killed him in a violent way. This killing would be a mixture of revenge, rage, resentment towards the baby for ruining her life, resentment towards Logan for ruining her life (in her twisted view) and also rage against Mom and Dad too- so yes, a lifetime of rage.

    The "blue" may suggest suffocation, strangling or drowning. I'm not a medical expert, but I think those types of deaths would result in a blue colored baby.

    Statistically, yes, they do dispose of the body near the home, in this case Homegate Hotel. And the park was where they baby was last seen, and also where she claimed the handoff took place. So the park may have a lot do with it. And yes, I agree, or a park like setting, where it's wooded with trees so better hide the body. Wooded area, lots of bushes, and trees are areas that most likely for a body to be disposed of so as to bettr hide it. I would not be surprised if and when he's found that a wooded area with trees and bushes would be the place. I'm purely speculating of course.

    It's a gruesome topic, and how she killed him and disposed of the body, but it's nearly 5 mos since this precious baby went missing, and I really don't see any other scenario besides this awful conclusion. Let's all pray some clues come to light or someone seen something that would help LE find this child.

    In the past, missing children like Mark Bookal was found very very near the home, and so was Caylee Anthony, so I think Raymond Rimkus Park, being very near Homegate Hotel is great place to start looking. Or, wooded areas near Raymond Rimkus Park. Just my theory...
     
  13. artsy1

    artsy1 New Member

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    I think IF EJ killed him, she probably put a pillow over his face while he was sleeping off the baby tylenol.

    As far as disposing of the body, here's a thought. Go back to the laundomat. Maybe she dumped the body in a dumpster from the condos that the laundromat faces, and she was going to the laundromat every day until the day the dumpster was emptied - watching to see if anyone was scrounging through the dumpster, running across the body. (Anybody know the timeline of which days she was seen at the laundromat versus when garbage pickup was?)

    O/T - does anyone know if EJ's "journal" explains her visits to the laundromat?

    Just my opinion IF she did kill him (which I don't believe she did).

    ETA: Ok, I jumped the gun. I forgot that photos of Gabe were taken AFTER her visit to the laundromat - providing the date on the camera was correct and not monkeyed with to show an incorrect date on the photos.

    ETA (again): OR, she was at the laundromat to find out what days garbage was picked up, if she decided to kill Gabe so that the dumpster couldn't be tied back to the hotel where she was staying. Just playing Devil's Advocate here.
     
  14. BeanE

    BeanE Inactive

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    Gabe was never seen at a park. You can find all his sightings on the case calendar. His last sighting was on Dec 26 between 1 and 3pm at the hotel.
     
  15. BeanE

    BeanE Inactive

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    The laundromat was ruled out. Elizabeth was never there.
     
  16. artsy1

    artsy1 New Member

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    Thanks, BeanE! I must have missed that while I was moving recently.
     
  17. kissdegirl

    kissdegirl New Member

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    I think if it was violent, it probably happened somewhere other than the park. I cannot see it as something NOT premeditated if she took him somewhere and did it. There would be evidence either in the hotel room or the car.

    I do see the suffocating/drowning as quite violent. I don't care to go into detail...I can't bring myself to that.
     
  18. DairyGirl

    DairyGirl New Member

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    I must have missed that. Was the guy that said she was there lying?
     
  19. BeanE

    BeanE Inactive

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    He was inconsistent in his stories.
     
  20. kissdegirl

    kissdegirl New Member

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    I have a thought, and it's not pleasant....just like all this talk lately...anyway. EJ posted on her Myspace "where there's a will there's a way". In her "Will" she wrote the other day, she talks about being buried above her mother's grave.

    Here's my thought. I watch the show Dexter, and in one of the seasons (can't remember exacty which), the body was buried under a freshly dug grave. The cemetary digs the graves the night before a funeral, and the killer would dig a little deeper under the cover of darkness to hide the body, then the next day, no one would be the wiser when a coffin was lowered over the buried body in the grave. Perfect crime and disposal. I remember talks about a cemetary near the hotel at one time (does anyone remember this, or if it was rumor?), and that was my immediate thought. Then, with release of her Will and how she wants to be buried in the cemetary with her mother, "where there's a will"...I don't know...could she be subconsiously telling authorities where Gabriel is? She wants him found, but her attorney says it will hurt her case. Maybe she's conflicted on this? Maybe she doesn't care. It just really has my wheels turning, and I even wonder if she was able to watch this episode of Dexter on Showtime in her hotel room one night.

    But, she told LM she would email him the exact location of....Gabriel...so there's an exact location somewhere, and she knows where that is.

    I don't think it would hurt to check cemetery's nearby the hotel for any graves that were dug on Friday/Saturday (25th or 26th), and then any subsequent burials on Sunday/Monday (26th/27th). Maybe we can even find some obits for that weekend.
     
  21. noopy

    noopy New Member

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    My heart feels heavy as I write this, but I now believe EJ killed Gabe... For a long time I thought he was sold or illegally adopted... I wanted to believe any theories out there as long as that meant he was alive. But I feel 4 months is too long for EJ to stay silent and too long for no other sightings, it's time for me to face reality. From what I have read, the police is leaning towards that too, and I'm sure they have reason to believe so.
    I think it was premeditated but not before she set out to SA. When her plans for illegal adoption fell through (maybe she did meet up with a couple, but they didn't want to be involved in something so risky), I think she overdosed him with Tylenol first, and then maybe suffocated him with a pillow to finish what she started. The pics of him sucking on the bottle was prob just before the time of her crime, and she took those pics as his last pics. Think at the hotel on 26th evening, there would be no signs of struggle since he's a baby and likely in deep sleep already. She then disposed of him in Raymond Rimkus Park on night of 26th, cuz if she did have a journal with the directions to that park, she wrote them down for a reason. She said she knows the exact location of him to LM, so it must be near some landmark inside the park, such as near a small lake, or entrance, or bbq area or somewhere that can be described to LM in the future. It's sad that she never mentioned Gabriel in her will, and she never showed emotion when full custody was awarded to Logan, because she knows Gabriel is not around anymore. The truth will come out at some point, just like Caylee and Haleigh, it just does... and I hope the family can have their closure and Gabriel can have a proper burial he deserves. I just wish he didn't suffer much during the process given he was asleep with tylenol... i really don't know medically how that works. All this is IMOO, so I hope that I am proven WRONG.
     

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