Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #6 (New Smoking Gun Theories for DP)

Discussion in 'Caylee Anthony 2 years old' started by cecybeans, Jun 21, 2009.

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  1. cecybeans

    cecybeans New Member

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    To help us consolidate and review...

    As we all know, the SA has put the DP back on the table. It was originally a listed option of course, when KC was indicted for Murder One last October, but taken off a month or so later after T Lenamon put together his thirty-some page argument/mercy plea indicating this was likely an accidental death based on a drug overdose of some kind and hinted at PPD issues or some other mitigating mental imbalance that might make LWOP or felony manslaughter more appropriate for this case.

    After Caylee’s body was found, an additional search warrant was executed, and other evidence then seized sent to the lab, the results of some of which we have been able to see in doc dumps, others we have not.. After the autopsy, the ME ruled Caylee’s death a homicide on Dec 19, despite the fact there was no clear COD.

    Since then, of course, DP has been re-entered in the charges, although some time did elapse before it was brought back (perhaps to allow the Anthony family to have their memorial a couple of months later).

    Quite a few legal eagles have speculated that, without a clear COD (and the possibility that accidental death cannot be overruled despite all the “ugly” behavior or that the duct tape could be post-mortem or the chloroform could be cleaning fluid) the only reason the DP was put back into place was that death penalty juries tend to be more conservative. Even though the voir dire process is more time-consuming and the trial itself more expensive, it has been used recently as a strategy to elevate what might be a felony manslaughter to at least Murder One LWOP if there just isn’t enough evidence to decide between accidental and premeditated death. Conversely, others have assumed that if the DP was back on the table, JB would simply have to fold his circus tent and recuse himself for being underqualified. Now that AL is on the scene, that may be moot.

    Since we have just seen the autopsy results, many of us have changed some of our thinking on various elements of the case.

    Leaving either of the above theories aside, I thought it would be interesting to combine what we now know about old evidence with other recent evidence we have seen – or thoughts on what might still not be released – and see if we could speculate on what type of “smoking gun” or “magic bullet” (please pardon the inappropriate analogy and feel free to send me a reasonable subsititute) we could come up with that would make this DP now a slam-dunk for the State of Florida. I’m hoping we can stick to guesses based on specific potential physical items or forensic evidence if possible, and avoid subjective interpretations, or ones that could be easily shot down by some defense attorney explanation (reasonable or not).

    I’m hoping if we can hammer out what may be waiting for us that is either not yet released or what is already released but incontrovertible, we will all feel more confident that Caylee will eventually get the justice she deserves.
     
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  3. Just Jayla

    Just Jayla New Member

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    I just read the first sentence of your post and have to applaud you already :clap: I need consolidation!

    Have to go read the rest!
     
  4. magic-cat

    magic-cat Mother to Many

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    Duct tape over the mouth and the nose-thus blocking all air passages and placed pre-death-prior to decomposition beginning. I think this will be one of the bullets from the gun...who tapes their baby's entire face "shut" like that? A loving mother? Nope...GUILTY!

    I second the applause on your opening post. Totally awesome!
     
  5. Bittiness39

    Bittiness39 New Member

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    On July 7th KC posted on her photobucket, in part:

    “On the worst of worst days,
    remember the words spoken
    Trust no one,
    Only yourself.
    With great power,
    comes great consequence.
    What is given,
    Can be taken away.
    Everyone Lies.
    Everyone Dies.”

    Taking what KC wrote into consideration...is it a possibility that the SA put the DP back on the table (without a definitive cause of death) because KC left a note with Caylee's remains? JMO. Not saying one exists. But wouldn't this be something that would negate any defense theories about an accidental death? After Caylee died, KC was bold enough to get a tatoo "Bella Vita" on July 3rd and on July 7th was bold enough to write what I posted above...what if she left something behind that said, "Caylee, this is why you had to die..."

    TY for your thread...I was waiting for this...hint hint...thank you cecy for posting this and for letting me bully you about it. :)
     
  6. Just Jayla

    Just Jayla New Member

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    I have to wonder if DC plays into the decision, as well as some of the forensics we have not seen. Did his phone records indicate he was talking to a case player during his infamous video in the woods? Was LE able to "compel" him to talk? Maybe he told LE that someone close to KC was "told" by her where the body was.

    Here is one smoking gun scenario: DC is talking to LA. LA knew where he should look, but LA did not have that info directly from KC-He found the info amongst KC's things (missing diary pages? a computer file?) Tells DC about where he found the info (DC asks a lot of questions and could have assured LA that he had confidentiality with KC), and DC ultimately tells police.
    Now DC's lawyer is back-tracking, trying to get DC's communications sealed.

    ETA: The police would have to have the diary pages/solid info for it to be a true smoking gun, so I will just tuck this stinky one into my theory pocket!
     
  7. kew17

    kew17 New Member

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    I can't help but feel that the paper towels may well be the reason for the DP back on, in conjunction with the autopsy results. Decomp on the towels and their location in the trash bag in the trunk of her car. That completely throws her Zanny the Nanny defense out the window. Add that with the hundreds of other pieces of evidence and her never reporting her child missing. It seems to be coming together rather well for the SA. Who knows what else they have that we haven't been privy to. In this case, I don't see one particular item that makes the case....there are too many to choose from!
     
  8. Bittiness39

    Bittiness39 New Member

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    It to me, is interesting to speculate, what the SA may be holding close to the vest that might indicate a motive/sense of guilt on the part of KC...why the SA may have put the DP back on the table without a definitive cause of death. My thought was a note written to Caylee from KC found with her remains...We all are wondering if there is a smoking gun...what would it be...that would show anything other than Caylee died accidentally...what is it?
     
  9. one_hooah_wife

    one_hooah_wife Loving Colorado!

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    I don't know if this will be a smoking gun ... but this is my theory de jour ... pool chemicals taken from house by LE. I looked up the brand and it is considered a biocide ... which is the same classification of chemicals that crime scene clean up experts use. Information on the internet about this is ubiquitous! In fact, if you search terms like "clean decomposition" "human decomposition" "odor of death in car" "crime scene cleanup" etc, at the various "Q&A" sites, you might see a few postings from last year around this very same time that make your blood run cold! I am not saying that the poster was KC ... but who knows ... especially if she was on a friend's computer. A few nights ago, I traced a message that I found about human decomp odor removal all the way to an IP address central Florida. It was posted to the site on June 22, 2008. There were many alarming posts from this individual ... but this person or this screen name has been active since KC was arrested ... so I doubt it was her. Anyway, it was when I was tracking down this possible connection that I found information about the active ingredients in some pool cleaners being the same as in biocides used for crime scene cleanup. So, maybe just maybe the computer forensics from RM, TL or ?? ... might have information that would tie KC to these chemicals and possibly even the reason for the chloroform levels in the car??? There is a "recipe" online for a homemade cleaner that uses pool chemicals and hydrogen peroxide ... I'm still looking into the chemistry.

    idk ... probably nothing ... but I thought I'd mention it!
     
  10. shgrbkr

    shgrbkr New Member

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    “On the worst of worst days,
    remember the words spoken
    Trust no one,
    Only yourself.
    With great power,
    comes great consequence.
    What is given,
    Can be taken away.
    Everyone Lies.
    Everyone Dies.”


    Regarding this July 7 photobucket post by KC as mentioned above in LittleBitty's post, it suddenly hit me that the particular phrase, "With great power comes great consequence," might be KC referring to Cindy--all CA's power brings about this great consequence: losing Caylee, and it is KC and ONLY KC who can "take her away" from Cindy. Just thinkin' out loud here.

    Secondly, more to thread topic, I'm not sure the SA has an actual "smoking gun," after all, the one smoking gun they might have gotten ahold of was the pair of pants that CA washed. However, the state has gone to great lengths to acknowledge, test, and discredit the "theories" that have been thrown about in the wind by the A family (pizza, that sort of thing.) The more I read about all of the detailed testing they have done to rule things out simply strengthens the SA case more and more. I just don't know what AL, LKB, and JB can do about it. I love it.
     
  11. Bittiness39

    Bittiness39 New Member

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    While everyone is contributing amazingly to this thread...I just have to wonder if there is something that points to something more than an accidental death. The DP was put back on the table...even after the medical examiner stated "homicide by undetermined means" which still leaves room for the defense to argue that Caylee died accidentally...if there was any piece of evidence and we are all speculating here...what would it be that would make a jury think that her death was no an accident...not cleaning up after the fact, not disposing of her remains...not even the duct tape...what would be a "smoking gun" that would keep the defense from arguing that Caylee died accidentally and therefore, there is no reason to keep the DP on the table. The DP is on the table for a reason. I threw out a note (subjective and not proven anywhere) from KC to Caylee..what if Caylee tried to fight through the duct tape and her prints or tiny fingernails were on it...there has to be something more...imo...but I could be wrong. I was just using the duct tape and evidence of a "struggle" as one reason...
     
  12. Eulalie

    Eulalie New Member

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    That has me wondering, too. The medical examiner specifically ruled it a homicide (rather than a potential accident) -- which means that the "silver bullet" evidence of homicide (and as a result, the DP) should be related to what was found in the autopsy, right?

    ???
     
  13. whiskeygurl

    whiskeygurl New Member

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    I am wondering if they tested the pink shirt, shorts, and winnie the pooh blanket for chloroform or residue from it.
     
  14. JBean

    JBean Retired WS Administrator

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    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70030&highlight=diary
     
  15. whiskeygurl

    whiskeygurl New Member

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    Other then the duct tape. Could Casey's finger prints being on something else. Like the child's book found with the remains. Casey put her in that laundry bag. Casey put that book in there to with other things. I am sure that book would have had some finger prints on the book cover.
     
  16. travelgal

    travelgal New Member

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    Could those searches be done by another member of the A family? Just thinkin'! Very interesting. Great sleuthing, hooah wife.

    So glad to hear that Hooah Hubby Daddy is back home! :clap::clap:
     
  17. Bittiness39

    Bittiness39 New Member

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    I am wondering about the gatorade bottle with the little syringe found in it...what if that has Caylee's dna on it? Not saying again it is true...but imagine the defense staring down the jury at trial and saying, "They have no cause of death. The medical examiner says as much..." what would elevate this beyond a typical murder one, etc...? IMO, and I am not for the defense, given that we were dealing with skeletonized bones at the time, what would make the SA put the DP back on the table? Her cleaning up, her doing this or that (KC) does not mean that Caylee was murdered....what could lead the SA to believe there was sufficient cause to believe she was killed...not an accidental death. Not the cover up after the fact. IMO there had to be something found with her remains that led the ME to her own theory and also the SA to put the DP back on the table. I just wonder what that was. Which is the reason for this thread. What could be the smoking gun if there is one?
     
  18. tweety933

    tweety933 New Member

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    Big Trouble comes small.......who would bury their child after an accident in a shirt with those words? Layers of Duct Tape across her mouth and attached tightly to her hair.....who would put tape over a childs mouth that tightly, after an accident? A beautiful life tattoo .......who would tattoo themselves after an accident or kidnapping with such a sentiment? Why would Casey tell LE that she received a call from Caylee, when the autopsy results say she was likely deceased by that time, and no phone records exist?
     
  19. Bittiness39

    Bittiness39 New Member

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    ITA with you sweet pea. It is just none of that is proof that Caylee was killed or died accidentally...which is what bothers a lot of us. The prosecution, to get the DP, has to prove KC murdered Caylee...and the Medical Examiner said "homicide by indeterminate means"...thusly, the defense can say if they are forced to Caylee died by accident and KC covered up after the fact. Something led, imo, the SA to put the Death Penalty back on the table. They had to feel reasonably sure that even without a cause of death they had something else. That is why I suggested that KC may have left a "dear john" letter with Caylee's remains which might have proven beyond a reasonable doubt that Caylee didn't accidentally drown in a pool while KC was busy on the phone or whatever that KC INTENTIONALLY killed her. Smoking gun is to me what I think is whatever evidence that would show that it was intentional.
     
  20. 2goldfish

    2goldfish Active Member

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    the tape.

    analysis might be able to show if the tape was placed on a living child or not. Maybe not necesarily if the living child was not conscious though....I dont know, is anyone ever knocked out to the point that the body wont struggle to breathe?

    for example there would not be a perfect lip print if caylee was awake, there would be licking, biting, etc. even if she was unconscious and bit her lip or vomited...

    I hope not. rather see KC walk than know caylee was awake for that.
     
  21. doogiesgirl

    doogiesgirl New Member

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    You know thinking along these lines is it so impossible to believe that LA figured the spot out by himself but just couldn't make himself go there to check it out or to move Caylee. I am not so sure LA had made the decision to help KC to the point of him going down with her. He is her brother, he'd have to have known his little sister's neighborhood hide out wouldn't he? I never had an older brother but my guess would be yes. JMO
     
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