Discussion in 'Zahra Clare Baker' started by Wondergirl, Nov 4, 2010.
Here is a place to discuss theories on what happened to Zahra.
I have wondered why LE was so publicly looking for witnesses outside the family, who had seen Zahra prior to her disappearance.
This may explain why.
I personally found the furniture store lady to be credible, which if so, puts Zahra still alive exactly two weeks prior to the day she was reported missing. Has there been anyone else publicly state they saw Zahra in August / September? Wasn't there a neighbor at the trailer park who saw her during the move to Hickory House or am I not remembering that correctly?
My theory is that she was dead at least a week or two before the 911 calls. Too much clean up, staging, and detail in the cover story for them both to be on the same page in a short window of time in my opinion. And to be so unemotional as well.
My theory is that EB struck Zahra in the head during one of her not uncommon abusive episodes with her and while it was intended to kill her was a fatal blow. I don't think she died right away though and I think that is how Adam ends up being involved to a level that he went with trying to sell this BS story and was involved in disposing of the body.
I think they knew she was critically injured and couldn't take her to the hospital in their warped world. She had previous injuries, there was no way to explain the current injury, there were previous CPS calls and visits, it was criminal and they both knew it so they didn't take her to hospital.
Extrapolating from there I think the mattress was replaced to get rid of the blood evidence. I think the tip about the woodchipper and the job site came from EB because she told AB to dispose of the body that way (no skull fracture to haunt her) and that AB didn't have the stomach to do it but told her that he did to shut her up. I think that is the "horrific" thing that AB supposedly did after the fact and the reason for the extensive woodchipper investigation we saw unfold.
I think my theory is pretty similar to yours and the only differnce is I think the mattress was discarded because she may have been been left deceased in her bed for several days until they could figure out what their next steps would be. In that time, bodies will have fluids escape and thus the mattress was soiled.
i do not know what happened and all reasons from other members seem just as plausable as the next. I think though that AB was oblivious to anything happening, some men are just that way and he seems to fit that role in my head. I believe he knows what happened but that was after the fact and in a way it ties him into the plot of Zahra's disappearence.
Either way i hope that LE knows what has happened and charges EB and/or AB with any crimes they have committed.
I agree with that as well.
I think she was on the bed for days.
Evidence in general, blood from the injury, vomit from a concussion, and bodily fluids from a corpse. They replaced it for good cause.
I mostly agree with you. Except I dont think it was a head injury and I think she was laying injured in her bed for 5-6 days. with loss of body control and that is why the mattress was removed.
I dont think Adam (even if he allowed her abuse) could let her body lay there after she died. I think the LE officers are getting so emotional because Adam has detailed the injuries she suffered with for days and they know her death was not an easy one. I also think he has told them about other abuse. He
He has not been charged yet because once they find her body they need to confirm what he has told them to the evidence they have.
All this makes Adam equally liable. And doomed. IMO
I think LE is going to have a massive amount of forensic evidence when they finally charge EB and/or AB with Z's murder. They're lining up their ducks in a row, getting everything in place to prosecute a death-penalty trial. The fact that they tore apart that house speaks volumes to me, that they know exactly what they're looking for.
It's over for the killers of this beautiful child. Just a matter of time before they answer in the court of justice for what they did.
I'd have to know more evidence!
But I have a gut feeling (are those allowed here?) that EB was poisoning Zahra and expected to be able to get a lot of sympathy for Zahra's death. She thought she wouldn't be caught. This is from her history of what looks like Munchausen's by Proxy.
I don't know how that turned more violent, but I suspect it did because it seems like LE may have been looking at blood splatter or similar on the walls in her bedroom.
I suspect that AB was the one who understood that Zahra's 'illness' was going to draw intense scrutiny rather than sympathy. I honestly think EB thought her plan would work. Maybe Adam got her to admit to him what she'd done (IMO)?
Something changed it to a coverup. That was probably after death. Maybe Adam did think Zahra just had the stomach flu. He's still culpable, imo, because he was willfully ignorant of all that was happening.
He knows what did happen, in any case -- imo.
I think they just shut the door and didn't deal with until they had to though, which is why I think she was there for a few days deceased.
Unfortunately it all leads to the same place.
And if it was soft tissue injury that caused her death instead of a skull fracture that evidence is gone and that benefits these two. I can't say I hope it was a skull fracture because that is horrible, but at least that would let her tell her story to LE. I hate them both.
A lot of what I believe at least about AB's involvement in what happened will ultimately depend on exactly what was found at the house, if anything. But until then I;ll get my feet wet.. with the understanding once results of the search are released I reserve the right to change my theory.
I think it is much simpler than we think- EB hit Zahra once to often and the last time she also hit her too hard causing a closed head injury, which would lead to Zahra vomiting and ultimately her death. EB then discarded the leg on the side of the road near where she had lived and placed Zahra somewhere in that same area.
She then told AB Zahra had a virus and not to disturb her.
EBs worse abuse happened when AB was away from the house- anything he saw when home was only on the level of what he defines discipline.
The 911 call is so bizarre because AB didn't think Zahra was really missing, he thought then that EB had done something but didn't imagine it was murder. As more and more information came out from family and friends he realized he had failed as a father so the guilt people see in him is real it just isn't because he hurt his daughter, rather because he failed to save her.
(now all that goes out the window if we find out that Zahra died prior to that Thursday)
It's so hard without all the evidence, isn't it?!
I forgot to say in my theory that that is why EB wanted Zahra from Australia. IMO, she has Munchausen's by Proxy. She wanted the attention.
IMO, she did not want all the work involved once that reality set in.
I actually do have theories of how it got more violent, but they are very sad and just violent I think it was too late by then.
I believe dear old dad had a much more active roll in her death.
He seems to me to be someone to fear when he gets angry given his record. His calm & passive manner isn't fooling me! Maybe step mom egged him on, and in a rage he killed her. or maybe he had been sexually abusing her and when step mom killed her, he had to cover up the abuse? There's a reason they were both involved and I definitely believe they both were. His 911 call cinched his personal involvement for me
Almost word for word the theory I subscribe to.
This makes the most sense to me. Also it doesnt seem that the people in their social circle that have turned their backs on EB have done the same with AB yet. At best he failed to save her.
IMO, both parents abused Zahra.
I do think the mattress holds allot of clues.
I tend to think as Zahra died, she was put in the car.
Out of sight, out of mind...........
I think Zahra's whole body needed to be destroyed because
the evidence of all kinds of abuse would show up.
In my gut I feel AB dismembered Zahra and she is scattered
everywhere and any where.
No one will find anything but a few bones.
I also think that they killed weeks her before she was reported missing.
a relative IIRC said nothing would of happened if DDS wasn't coming............
IMO, Zahra was going to tell someone, that is why she was their prisoner.
Very interesting point about the poisoning. I have thought often that EB was attracted to AB because of the attention and sympathy she would get by having a child like Zahra, and agree with the Munchausen but never thought of poison for some reason. I even thought about EB making her sick by only allowing her 5 minutes a day out to eat and keeping her locked up all the time.
However, I think that would be a totally solo act and can't understand why AB wouldn't have told all by now if that was the case.
EB explained away all her abuse before and Z told DSS that she was not abused, and probably would again. I kinda think if it was some sudden violent act that didn't immediately kill her they might seek help being that EB had successfully explained injuries away before.
There is always the possibility that the disposal wasn't a cover up, but a way to try to get 1 million bucks from the boss. In that case they would dispose of the body very very well.
MOO is that Zahra died from medical neglect. I question the stump theory because if she was locked up all day and only came out to eat, why wear it? Especially if it hurt. I think maybe her cancer came back or she had a stomach bug and wasn't properly hydrated, etc. I also think there's a possibility that prior to the medical neglect was some physical abuse that left marks on Z that they did not want doctors to see.
While I am inclined to accept your assertion that AB could be basically clueless and uninvolved enough to not realize a lot of things that were going on, I still have a problem. AFTER THE FACT (not to quote EB), once he realized what was going on, once it dawned on him that his wife's activities had led to the death of his daughter--where was the shock, the outrage? We have seen him display *very* little emotion! Even that which he did show seemed really fake, IMO.
I mean, if I try to put myself in the place of someone who had been stupid, immature, foolish, and clueless, then imagine that suddenly, in the midst of my cloud, I came to realize that horrible things had actually resulted that had not only led to the death of my own offspring, but put my entire life in huge jeopardy...I'm just not seeing anything like the kind of reaction I would have expected.
I am so sorry to say that everything you wrote sounds entirely believable to me.
Separate names with a comma.