"Theories only" - thread

Discussion in 'Elisa Lam' started by summer_breeze, Mar 3, 2013.

  1. December

    December Verified insider - Kathy Jones case

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    This is actually an interesting point... that perhaps that tank was cut off from supplying water for a certain period of time. Then, someone turned it back on and that is when there were indications that something very bad was going on that affected the water. Because all of the other true cases (meaning not movies) of people being in water tanks it seems the poor quality of water was detected much sooner. I believe in one the people consuming the water noticed that it was VERY bad within 24 hours. Granted, this was in a warmer climate than L.A. in winter and the tank may have been smaller.. but 18-19 days is a long time.

    Now, I do not know why or how the tank would be cut off, however that makes a certain amount of sense. Although I do think some people exaggerated about the water because AT's water was clear.

    I hate to talk about the water when Elisa's life is more important. But, I have honestly wondered why she wasn't found sooner just because of the water.
     


  2. December

    December Verified insider - Kathy Jones case

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    I actually went to the site of a psychic... but, this part isn't about psychic stuff really. She said it was very important to know exactly which room was Elisa's. I agree with this. There are some rooms within a given hotel that have issues. Did Elisa have a fire escape outside her window? Did everything in her room work properly? How was her room positioned to the shared facilities? Could she hear noises from those all the time? Was she close to the elevator? There are many different things that could make her feel restless inside the room. Of course, the psychic postulates that Elisa's room had a dark past that create a negative atmosphere. Hey, in that hotel, that's possible as well.
     
  3. Khali777

    Khali777 New Member

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    Im not sure what compells me to share my opinions here but I've been reading quite a lot about this story and i have gone through all the various opinions here and on other websites and though there seems to be so much sensationalism theres also quite a lot of people who just like me find the whole thing odd

    Being Canadian and living in Vancouver myself, when this story first came to light i remember how odd the whole story was, in Canada we very rarely get news stories like this so it was closely watched and reported particularly the news in British Columbia focused a lot on her disappearance and when they found her body.

    I noticed in one of the posts here someone mentioning that it would be good to have someone with bipolar ass their thoughts so I id like to share some of my personal experiences with bipolar and psychotic episodes and maybe that can shed some light on the elevator video and if she did commit suicide.

    First of all, i have had three psychotic episodes in my life, the first two i was never diagnosed with anything but severe depression and subsequently put on medication with no other therapy.

    Following my last and most severe psychotic episode i was diagnosed bipolar, what happens with me is that my anxiety goes crazy to the point my mind cannot decipher from reality and my imagination or what i am fearing and having anxiety about, in other words what i am experiencing in my imagination is real to me and nothing can get me out of it.

    My last psychotic episode was three years ago, i was not taking any medication prior. It began with a bout of anxiety and rapidly progressed to the point i was out walking around the city at all hours in search of something imaginable and at home i would be scared for my life not sleeping staring out a window and holding a knife thinking someone was coming to kill me.The fear i was having got the point it engulfed my entire thoughts BUT i was also quite functional and very aware what i was doing. I did know i was being crazy but i just couldn't stop myself.

    Had i not received treatment when i did i know for certain that i would have done something to hurt myself.

    In regards to the video they have of her in the hotel, the first time i watched it i did find her behaviour odd too but after several viewings i do not see anything weird about it except to me when she appears to show some anxiety.

    I don't get the impression she was afraid or being followed in her body language i get that she was having a normal reaction to an elevator not working properly. if i was in a hotel late at night and trying to use an elevator and the doors weren't closing i think i would be a bit weirded out just from my anxiety.

    But from what i get from the video it seems like the elevator just wasn't working, she exits a few times waiting for the doors to close and seems to be wondering why its not working, then she finally leaves maybe to take the stairs.

    Her movements seem normal to me as for someone being on meds, I recall one time being in the hospital and seeing other psych patients walking and holding onto the walls to keep themselves from falling over.

    For me personally on medication i recall a few times not being able to stand and feeling very dissociated with my surroundings. that alone may be a factor in her slow or weird/unbalanced movements at times, in fact she seemed quite normal to me for someone being on meds.

    So in saying that the one thing i find strange is why was she on that floor in the first place, perhaps she was looking for a bathroom. She wasn't carrying toiletries which indicate to me that she wasn't looking for a shower but maybe she couldn't sleep, i recall reading in her tumblr that she had problems sleeping or maybe was bored and just looking around the hotel. I don't know what medication she was given for her bipolar but if she was on meds that night they would have had a sedative affect most anti psychotic meds are sedating and like i said earlier could explain her movements in the elevator.

    Side affects to medications vary but its a known fact that a lot of depressed people after being prescribed medication can have adverse reactions, feeling of severe suicide being one of them. I wonder how long she was on medication, why was she not being closely monitored by her physician. For me personally when i was diagnosed bipolar i had to check in with a psych nurse every week to make sure i was not having bad thoughts and to make sure the sure the medication they were given me was working.

    Living in the same city she did when she was diagnosed and prescribed psychiatric meds makes me wonder if perhaps there was some failure or neglect on her physicians part. Or maybe her case wasn't as severe as mine but that would make it even worse in my opinion, psychiatric medication should not be handed out like candy.

    I cannot speak for everyone who gets diagnosed and prescribed meds here in Vancouver but i do know that you need an actual referral from your family doctor to see a mental health practitioner and then the psychiatrist is the one who diagnoses and prescribes meds. Im sure it happens but i have to say that its very rare a general practitioner would diagnose someone bipolar and prescribe them meds.

    Well those are my thoughts i wanted to share with the forum here I'm hoping it can at least shed a little light on her mental health.

    I haven't really formed an opinion on whether i think she took her own life or not, i do think the details surrounding her death are way too strange to assume it was suicide though (the anal brushing, her clothes were removed and in the tank, the size of the tank lid, not jumping off the building)

    I have been witness to one suicide in my life, a lady jumped from my building six years ago and i never got over that. I remember at the time and for a long time after i just didn't want to accept someone would do something so brutal to themselves. I remember telling myself it was an accident she just slipped somehow but yes, she committed suicide.

    So did she commit suicide? Well i know if she was having adverse reactions to medication my answer would be yes its very likely and if they were bad reactions any kind of behaviour is possible. She could have been heading up to the roof at the time of the video with the intent to kill herself and maybe was trying to talk herself out of it.

    I am still going to keep reading about this and maybe one day some new information will come out about what happened.

    Thank you for reading
     
  4. Stella

    Stella Well-Known Member

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    I was looking around the net to see if there were any updates on this case when I ran across a most unusual theory. Could Elisa have gone skinny dipping in the water tank, then been sucked down to the bottom to drown when someone in the hotel flushed one of the toilets? Is something like that even possible?
     
  5. Userid

    Userid Well-Known Member

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    I don't know if one toilet flushing would cause the water inside the tank to swirl downward or not, but I think her going skinny dipping is very plausible. It's always been my contention that she got inside the tank on her own accord (no marks on her body, not on the top of the tank/the hole's rim). The one question I would have, though, is why would she insert all her clothes inside the tank if she was simply skinny dipping? Why not leave them outside for when she exits (if she was indeed intending to exit)?
     
  6. dogperson

    dogperson Well-Known Member

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    Today was the first I'd heard of this case, altho I do remember her being found in the water tank, but didn't realize there was a video of the elevator or any mystery to this case. I suspect several things were wrong that led to Elisa ending up in the water tank. The door to the roof was probably not monitored or locked. The water tank lid was possibly not fully on the tank to begin with. And finally, the misbehaving elevator...if it had been working she may not have ended up on the roof. Because it did not work properly, she came up with some other idea which led to her being on the roof and in the water tank.

    After reading all the threads and watching the video I think this was either accidental due to some kind of delusions or manic episode or a suicide. I think she took her clothes off herself and got into the tank, for whatever reason that made sense to her at the time. She may have not been thinking clearly enough to realize she could drown. If she was delusional and maybe thinking someone was after her, she might have thought getting into the tank and sliding the lid back closed would help her hide. But that wouldn't explain taking her clothes off.

    On the elevator her behavior strikes me as something I myself might do. She gets in and the thing that does puzzle me is it looks like she pushes multiple buttons. Maybe she meant to, maybe not. Then when the door doesn't open I think the way she jumps in and out the doorway a couple of times may be to trigger the sensor. She then backs up into the corner of the elevator against the wall, maybe thinking she is somehow keeping the door from closing by being too close to it. When she steps outside and waves her hands I still think she is trying to trip the sensor like you might with the type that's on garage doors. When nothing happens she has a playful conversation either with the elevator itself or with people/ghosts who aren't there just as a joke. This part especially looks like something I would do just to be silly if I were alone (and I'm a 44 year old woman) but I have often had conversations with misbehaving appliances and autos. When she bends her fingers back I think she is counting on them. Maybe she's telling the elevator/imaginary people all the things she tried to make the elevator work. When she gets back in and punches a whole bunch of buttons it may just be playing around or frustration, trying anything to get the elevator to work.

    To me she does not look panicked. She spends too much time there to be in a panic, including the conversation she conducts. Manic, possibly, for I have lived with a bipolar person for 20 years. He did not have actual hallucinations but did have delusional ideas such as paranoid ideas, thinking people were plotting against him, etc. Things would seem rational to him in a manic state that were completely irrational to everyone else. Alcohol only intensified the effects the mania had on him. I noted in the autopsy report her blood alcohol was .02, not much but I wonder how much it dissipates over time when a body has begun to decompose.

    I feel like something pushed her into a manic state. Maybe the overstimulation of being in a new town on her own, alcohol, etc. And she disrobed and got into the tank for reasons that seemed logical to her.

    As for the anal bleeding or pooling of blood, I would assume this was due to decomposition and the position of the body. Blood pools to the lowest point and if you are floating in a tank of water, you would float in a butt-down sort of position. Since the ME found no genital or anal trauma and made no remarks about the blood pooling in this area, it must be a normal effect.

    Altogether it looks, just in my opinion, like an accidental drowning or possibly a suicide, but I'm leaning more toward accidental drowning while in a delusional state of mind.
     
  7. findinganatta

    findinganatta New Member

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    I know I'm a little late in answering this, but not, a toilet flushing would not cause a down suction. Firstly, the amount of water that refills a toilet is minuscule compared to the amount of water in the cistern; secondly, and more importantly, the toilet is actually refilled by water that is resting in the tank connecting to the toilet, and the water that refills that tank runs at a rate that would be comparable to a sink being turned on a medium stream (hence the wait time between flushes of a toilet). On top of those details, it was established early on in these threads by a couple of guys who knew exactly how cisterns and plumbing worked (due to their professions) that there simply wouldn't be enough downward suction in the tank ever to pull her downwards. She would have to have actively swam down and covered the entire hole at the bottom with a flat area of her skin in order to create suction, and even then the pressure of that suction would almost certainly not be very strong due to the physics of how much water is in a cistern versus the size of the hole at the bottom. So in summary: after much debate and much expert opinion (I believe the forum moderator even confirmed the profession of one of the users as being legitimately related to this topic), it was established that suction probably played no role at all.

    Personally, I don't think it would have required suction for her to drown... something that very few people ever mention or notice--perhaps because it is so simple that it's easy to ignore--is the strong possibility that due to the shape and height of the cistern, once a person crawls inside, the possibility of getting back out is entirely dependent on whether a) they can reach the edges of the hatch opening and b) whether they can pull themselves back up from the position they are in. Those are some serious problems if you can't pull yourself back up... and how many people can't even do a single pull up in the gym? I remember the fitness testing in high school, and at least 70% of the young women, regardless of weight or any other obvious pattern, weren't able to pull themselves up to the bar. It takes a lot of upper-body strength. It would probably be even more difficult while in the water. So once you're in, you very well might be doomed... and that is a very possible explanation. The only thing this doesn't obviously account for is the lid being shut, but there are multiple feasibilities, such as her being able to shut it as she got in or one of the frequent visitors to the roof shutting it without realizing her body was in there (a fact that we would not know, even if it were the case).

    Another issue is that she might have just drowned because she wasn't a terribly strong swimmer, or panic, or any number of other very plain, unexciting explanations that are behind many drownings : /
     
  8. the_chosen_one

    the_chosen_one Member

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    I think it would depend on the depth of the water... Based on the police stating the tank was 50-75% full, i imagine with hands on the lip of the lid, you would be able to use a swimming kick as you did the pull up motion to aid you in at least getting to a position where your elbows were out of the tank from which you could then lean your head/shoulders over the edge and roll yourself somewhat ungracefully out of the tank. It would be a lot harder getting out of an empty tank or a tank that was <30% full (ie too shallow for swimming kick but deep enough to cause drag and significantly inhibit your ability to jump.)

    Then again the police report on the water depth does not seem particularly accurate, but it is probably a moot point as I imagine whatever they saw in the tank when they found her was probably different to the volume of water that was in there at the time she died.

    A shallow tank would just about be a death sentence for someone of her height imho. That could possibly explain the fact she was naked (if you were in knee deep water trying to jump up to reach the lid you might realise the clothing is weighing you down, try folding it up and standing on it to a. reduce your mass you need to move by removing wet clothing, b. decrease the distance you need to jump by starting on a marginally elevated platform of clothes and c. elevate you out of the water a little to reduce the proportion of your body that is having to overcome drag caused by the water as you try and jump out of it).

    One question that had bothered me previously was the fact she was naked, because even based on the above, I am not quite sure she anyone would have felt removing their underware would have offered any increase in her chances of escaping from the tank...
     
  9. bp06km

    bp06km New Member

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    I was originally following this case very closely as it had all the elements of a mystery novel which I enjoy. I then, sometime during the course of waiting for the autopsy fell out of sync with the discussion and theories. It seemed the case had moved on and it was a long forgotten memory. Fast-forward to about 2 weeks ago, I came across Elisa's name again, and for some reason this time it stuck with me. I wanted to get to the bottom of what had happened with all the information that has been released since the time of her death. I have read mostly every forum on Websleuths and elsewhere (even the Chinese discussion forums in translate to see if there was any different theories than the West had). Now, looking at the scope of all available information a few things have stuck out at me, that may not have when following the case day-by-day.

    1) Morbid: Those who have accused Morbid as being linked to the death: I have found nowhere that confirms from an authority that he was present at the hotel at the same time as Elisa. I did see on his FB page that he was in LA at the time of her disappearance according to his uploads. Now, If he was present in the Cecil at this time, I can see how he plays as being a major POI. He has all the making of being the culprit as relating to his music and satanic worshiping. I went one step deeper into this and tried to find as much information i could on his now Wife also. This is where it starts to become weird to me. If you look into her history you will notice that she posts about "sacrificing" someone (a third person) for love on her FB page. Death, love and sacrifice are all focal points in her messages/ pictures. And when was the date she posted about another being sacrificed for love? hmmm.... about 1 week prior to Elisa's disappearance. Did Morbid sacrifice Elisa for his now Wife? Is that why they now have a newborn baby? Just some food for thought on that whole discussion.

    2) Why she was in LA: Speculation could go on forever about this. IMO it makes sense to stop in LA especially if she has never been there before and she is doing a West Coast tour. Who wouldn't stop by LA? The weird thing it wasn't in her initial itinerary that she informed her family about. Why would this be? My logic says it was probably to meet or do something that she did not want her family to know about (as it would probably be deemed unsafe) she may mention her intentions in the postcard to the friend? It could be related to a guy she was meeting or a place she was visiting or even both (which may be why the friend was alarmed over the postcard).

    3) Cellphone: Where is the blackberry now? who has it? if it was a faithful citizen wouldn't they turn it into police or inform police that they found Elisas phone after all the news coverage? I mean, even if they are scum and sold it for a quick profit or used it as a throwaway phone they surely looked into all the information the cell had on it to find if they could leech more money out of it. It's a pretty big coincidence to me that the BB is lost shortly before her death. If i was planning on killing Elisa would i not want to take her lifeline out of her hands? would i not want to delete any conversations on social media and beyond that can trace back to me before I kill her? Do i not want to see what her plans are for the coming days and all her other information to be more clean with what i'm doing? If you look at it that way, she may have been targeted while she was in SD and followed to LA. She was actively pursuing meet ups with random strangers i'm sure to feel less lonely on her journey.

    4) Her clothing: One major thing stands out to me, and I have not noticed much if any speculation about it. SHE WAS WEARING BLACK LACED CK PANTIES AND NO BRA. This was underneath men's basketball shorts and a Large T shirt (which would make comfy sleeping attire i'm sure). Why would she have these black laced panties on underneath the shorts? why not just wear the shorts by themselves if you're going to sleep? Was the black laced panties for a certain guy friend to see? as soon as she takes off her clothes that's all that she would be wearing... i mean she has no bra on. This to me, as someone in their late 20's myself spells out that she took off her daily attire and changed into this set of clothes to go meet a certain lucky someone. Why else would you wear black laced panties with no bra underneath shorts a T and a hoodie? If i was a female, I know i'd just be able to unzip my hoodie and the party would commence.

    5) Autopsy report: IMO it was weighed as an accident due to the influence by police investigators and Elisa's apparent diagnosis of being bi-polar. I'm sure if you questioned all authorities on this matter that many would debate this finding. It's easy to shut a case like this when the evidence is so easily stacked in favor of closing a case.... why go through the trouble of having another unsolved murder ontop of all the resources they were expending to find that other guy in LA at the same time? A pretty nice hand for the LAPD.

    6) Her Sister: I haven't seen any comments regarding this, although it stuck out to me. If you do some searching, you will find she is now getting married, although that's not the weird part. If you look at her FB you would notice she maybe took about 1 month of posting on fb when Elisa's body was found, then she was back at it. The posts to me seem strange as they are all about her work and travel plans.... even a short month after the body was found. Now if this was my Sister, i doubt i'd be so excited to go to China for my business after all that had happened. Something doesn't sit well with me in regards to that.

    7) Elevator Video: It's easy to make this the focal point of the investigation, and IMO it shouldn't be. It raises many more questions than it will answers until we can ever see an actual police report regarding other video etc. To me, it seemed she wanted to get away from the 14th floor, that is what i do know as fact. Why did she want to get away and from what? well.... that's the case right there. She didn't seem in initial terror, and she seemed to grow more frustrated as time elapsed. IMO she was in a cat and mouse game with a couple other people (who wouldn't let her go in peace). A couple other theories that crossed my mind.... Instead of drugs or supernatural presence what else could make her like that? was she hypnotized to do this? was her weird arm movements due to he person saying something like "you just woke up" and she is searching for her stuff on the table because she can't see in the dark? Is she actually PRETENDING to be on drugs? was she going to report sex she just had as a rape crime? and knew the elevator cameras would show her demeanor to help her case? Is that why she died? to be shut up from telling people about what happened?

    other questions: who was this boy with the tats? why has he never come forward saying it is not him and he has evidence of where he was and what he knew to support the case? What does her ex bf that she recently split up with have to say about all this? why was the roof not treated as a crime scene? Why did LE have no comment in regards to her cellphone?

    IMO the night she went missing, she was involved with one or two other parties in a sexual way. Whatever happened to her was due to what transpired with those events. I would really like to know who responded to her meet up requests in the LA vicinity. Surely a friend must have mentioned it to another friend about meeting this girl at some point? Was it this musician she mentioned? Surely she didn't know much about him or his past if they only met twice as she had mentioned. He may have been a very sinister person. IMO the perp has been on that rooftop many times and is familiar with the staffs routines if not staff themselves... maybe related to a staff member? That would make sense as to having a Mexican and Italian stalker. All I can say with all the evidence at hand, all theories and info read, and somewhat of a well functioning brain... this was not an accident or a suicide.
     
  10. Nickfalzone

    Nickfalzone New Member

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    Interesting speculations above. I also feel like the lack of publicly released evidence, such as from digital devices and further elevator footage, makes it much more difficult to speculate essentially out of thin-air as to what actually happened. IMO there are only two legit reasons for her death: 1. She had a mental breakdown, or 2. she was stalked and killed. I flip-flopped between these 2, with the latter being much more interesting to speculate about. However, my opinion changed towards the former when I read that a friend of hers commented to the media that Elisa was agoraphobic and paranoid that people were stalking her. These were issues she dealt with long before her trip to LA. Additionally, she was found to be on medications that are known to treat and/or exacerbate paranoia and hallucinations (problem with psych meds is that they often can either solve an issue, or make it many times worse, depending on dosage, reaction with other medications, etc.). Since we have no evidence of an actual stalker, besides her strange paranoid behavior in the elevator, we are left with solving it based on what we know - she had significant psychiatric issues, was known to be paranoid about people following her, and was on medications that could have induced or exacerbated a psychotic episode. What would really solve it for me is if additional elevator footage was revealed, which showed her acting strange to one degree or another. Also, any further details on her actual mental illness(es) along with interviews with family/friends regarding her day-to-day behaviors that may back up her meltdown in the elevator. I still find it hard to believe that, as screwed up as she was, she would go to the roof of a hotel in the middle of the night, walk up a ladder, open a hatch door, and crawl into a water tank, get undressed, and die there. You see people doing crazy stuff all the time, but this is definitely far more out there than your typical crazy-person behavior. The fact that she had written all these blog articles indicating a high-level intellect and self-awareness, makes this all that much more hard to believe. But based on what we know, this is the only reasonable theory as to what happened.
     
  11. Userid

    Userid Well-Known Member

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    She hit the "door hold" button, which was the last one in the middle row of the buttons. Hence, the door stayed open for a prolonged period.

    She was playing a game with herself. When she exits and lingers outside, she's counting the seconds it's taking for the elevator doors to close on her fingers; and counting aloud to herself. Then she casually walks away. Your breakdown is almost exactly like one I made a while ago. Mine was shorter, though. :)

    She's not in any real fear. She is unaware, however, that she pressed the door hold button. She's perplexed, so she entertains the notion someone outside is holding the door open; but deep down, she has no fear, and is just being playful with herself, while no one else is around.

    The elevator video doesn't really prove anything, when it comes down to it. A perfectly sane individual could exhibit this same playful behavior.
     
  12. the_chosen_one

    the_chosen_one Member

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    Agree with everything you said. Just with the quoted bit, I think the police even found that difficult to believe that would happen, hence the accidental death ruling. If she believed someone was stalking her she may have ended up on the roof and the tank seemed like a good place to hide but then had no means of getting out.

    Why did she end up naked though? If you felt your clothes were weighing you down, i understand taking them off, but cannot fathom why she would have removed her underwear also. But stranger things have happened.
     
  13. glyph55

    glyph55 New Member

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    I just can't seem to swallow the theory that she willingly crawled up to the tank and jumped in. I've been reading dozens of pages and hundreds of comments from people who say that the very few details we have of this case leave them feeling that something is off about the official story and the infamous elevator footage. Yes it seems she had some personal struggles which many of us can relate to, however, we owe it to Elisa to question everything and keep searching for answers.
    What does everyone make of the strange things posted on Elisa's tumblr page months after she passed away? I think that someone out there knows the truth but I'm starting to believe that we the public will never really know what exactly happened. I hope she forever rests in peace.
     
  14. Userid

    Userid Well-Known Member

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    On Tumblr, one can schedule posts for years beyond the present day. Elisa simply scheduled those posts to appear at a later date before her untimely death.
     
  15. TB Rhine

    TB Rhine New Member

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    I don't buy the skinny-dipping theory. How would Elisa even know the tank was up there, let alone get the idea to go swimming in it? The only way that works, in my mind, is if someone familiar with the building (an employee, long-term guest, or maybe a local who lived nearby and was friendly with the hotel staff) invited her up there. In that case, she could have met with foul play either intentionally or unintentionally, and the culprit took advantage of the tank's presence to hide her body.

    Also, I've never been so glad that I don't drink tap water.
     
  16. kline

    kline Well-Known Member

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    That video is truly creepy.
    However Ive worked for 8 years as a Psych Tech in a mental hospital and Ive watched many unfortunate folks suffering from schizophrenia (which can manifest itself fast in a person's early 20's) hallucinating on video moniters covering safety rooms.
    Her behavior looked EXACTLY like that.
     
  17. SATA

    SATA Active Member

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    Yes, creepy indeed. I feel so sorry for Elisa Lam, she seemed so lonely.
    I think she was acting out some fantasy.
    The pictures below are from her blog. An indication of how her mind worked.

    http://i.imgur.com/gnDtrI5.png

    http://i.imgur.com/gKyepQ3.png

    http://i.imgur.com/OmEeFPe.jpg?1
     
  18. CarolinaHeel

    CarolinaHeel New Member

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    Hello all. Long time lurker. Something about this case made me create an account. I have something in mind that might be worth considering in relation to this case. I have read through a good deal of the info about it here though I admit I haven't been through it all. I just don't have that kind of time. So if I cover something that has been covered, forgive me.

    I'm not a fan of assumptions, but....
    1.Lets first assume no one forced Elisa onto the roof of the hotel.
    2.Lets also assume that her seemingly confused method of pushing buttons in the elevator was purposeful.
    What logical reason would a person have to get out on the roof of a hotel? Why push the buttons in and odd combination?

    I don't know how much you fine folks on WS know about "urban exploring" or "infiltrating", but these would both be a valid reason to access a rooftop.
    "Urban exploring" generally deals with exploring and/or documenting places generally inaccessible to or unseen by the public. I did this this myself in my younger years.
    "Infiltrating" is for the more adventurous types and involves sneaking in to off-limits areas, sometimes using somewhat shady means. Speaking from personal experience (knowing a few people who are into it) this can sometimes include using fire escapes, hopping fences, using service entrances, steam tunnels, and I've even heard the odd story of elevator keys being passed around.
    I've heard the elevator code tricks mentioned among some people who are into this hobby. Some do work, some don't. She could have attempted to access off-limits areas, such as the roof with what she thought was a code. Her nervousness and her looking around could be accounted for by the fact she thinks she's doing something that she doesn't want to get caught doing.

    Is it possible Elisa was dabbling in this hobby? There are some other (possibly coincidental) things to consider..

    A. The "This is usually how I look when I walk at night" photo of herself. Also her answer to a question on her spring account in which she said she was happiest from 2am to 6am. She seems to have had a proclivity for wondering around at night, or was more active after dark. This is generally when explorers and infiltrators operate. It's part of the rush in certain situations. It would gel with her internal clock pretty well.

    B. She does have some abandoned and ruined buildings on her tumblr. Also various rooftop and city photos. A lot of explorers hate tumblr because there are many young novices who find photos there and then try to get involved with the hobby. They come off as groupies. We have had some stumble onto our group, and I see them hit the larger websites as well looking for people to take them somewhere or give them ideas for places to explore.
    As someone who had a bipolar friend for several years, I tended to notice she was easily distracted, found new interests quite easily and followed them obsessively for short periods before finding a new subject. It could be Elisa was just beginning to really zero in on exploring, which would mean she hadn't had time to either post her own photos, talk about, or reblog very much relating to the hobby.

    C. She asked on her tumblr about meetups during her trip. I Don't know how to see who she's connected with on tumblr. I don't know how deep into the rabbit hole the police went. If there's evidence they checked into her messages, etc. this could have been outside of tumblr.
    I do know based on community talk from around that time there were a number of small explore meetups. There was also chatter about an LA meetup on the 24th on a larger site I'm no longer a part of. I don't know for sure if anything became of it because beyond the original posts, things usually go to private messages there after initial posts. There are also any number of meets that happen through old fashioned email and the community never hears about them.

    D. If she was meeting to explore while she was in state, the area she traveled to in Cali would make sense and offer a lot of interesting old buildings and places to see in the towns she was known to have been in. The scene where she is from is pretty quiet in comparison.
    The Cecil Hotel, in particular because of it's morbid history and former glory could have stood out.

    E. The water tanks. In order to get to the highest point on the building (the mechanical room) one would either have to climb up the ladder on the opposite side of the tanks, or from the side where the tanks themselves are. Getting to the highest point on buildings and towers is a common goal for explorers.
    It's hard to say what happened between her getting on the roof and her entering the tank. However, if she were trying to get up onto the mechanical room roof above the tanks, there are things which could happen to account for her ending up in the tank.
    -She could have climbed in herself. Maybe for a swim, once she realized that it was a water tank. My friend did many similar risky things while I knew her that entered her mind as a whim and progressed straight to an action without her brain weighing what she was about to do. Swimming alone on a rooftop has a certain romance to it. I haven't been able to find much info about the manner of the opening in the top of the tank, so this is admittedly wild speculation. Perhaps she was able to get in but not out as easily? Panic sets in and she drowns.
    -She could have fell in from the higher roof of the mechanical room. This would mean the hatch would have to be open or the cover off. There are things that could explain that as well as them being replaced.

    These are just some thoughts I had regarding this case.

    I personally do believe this was an accident. The autopsy seems to corroborate that. It may have been a strange string of circumstances and actions that led to her ending up dead in the tank. This wouldn't (IMHO) necessarily be strange for someone who was bipolar. To reference my friend once again, as long as I knew her she didn't always do what you expected her to, or take the paths a "normal" person would have. Eccentric behavior wasn't eccentric for her at times, and if Elisa was the same, there is no way to say what she "logically" would have thought or done to end up on the roof or in the tank. Add to that the chance of some sort of episode (which I have seen personally twice during time spent with my friend - they are scary)....
    I feel very sorry for Elisa. I hope her family can get some concrete answers.

    From what I have seen of it, although being bipolar lets you see the world in amazingly different ways, it also isolates a person. For my friend it is surely a great gift, and a great curse.
     
  19. Misswatching

    Misswatching New Member

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    I believe she might be a hand talker, which would explain the odd hand gestures. Around the 2 min mark she is obviously talking to someone directing their attention to the elevator as if she trying to show that she's trying to frantically take the elevator, then after it looks like she's listing things off or giving reasons. I myself am a hand talker and when I get excited I get real animated and "crazy" looking with my body language!!
     
  20. Misswatching

    Misswatching New Member

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    Do we know who has been posting on her Tumblr account? She has posts up until Dec 2013?
     

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