Theory #2: Family Abduction by George Waters with George Brody, Part 2

Discussion in 'Anna Christian Waters' started by Dr. Doogie, Apr 13, 2007.

  1. Cubby

    Cubby fly the W!

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    I think it depends on whether or not any of the neighbors noticed a van in the area. Perhaps that van was unfamiliar to CB, but would not have been unfamiliar to someone who resided in the area. Maybe a neighbor who knew so and so sometime drove by to see the horses.

    It would seem more likely to me, the car or van involved in Anna's abduction would not have followed her home from school that same day, or at least that same day for the first time. But rather several times in the weeks or month(s)? prior to Anna's dissappearance. The same day is just too risky imo. Someone would have had to follow the school bus previously, became familiar with the afternoon routine enough to take the opportunity that day. Even with the comings and goings with company that day. I don't believe it was some random person who just happened to see Anna at school on the 16th and decided to follow the bus that day.

    Did the bus driver ever indicate she noticed a car or van suddenly sharing the same route in the weeks or month(s) prior to Anna's abduction? When one comes and goes at the same time daily, we tend to notice those things; which neighbor leaves at the same time; which people are at the coffee shop at the same time before work each day........ Were there older grades on the same bus that might recall some weird van following their bus home on a daily basis? One that was behind the bus for days or weeks then suddenly not there anymore? Where was Annas stop in relation to the bus stops? Was she one of the first or last children along the bus route to be dropped off at home?

    IF the person learnt of Anna's residence by way of following the school bus, they had to take enough time to follow the bus to learn the daily routine of the bus driver, where stops were made.

    It would be interesting to know more about the bus. Did it include more than just the school Anna attended? Or did it pick up children from various schools? Were there any other attempted kidnappings around that time that involved school buses in the area?

    ETA: We need to think about what the bus driver and students who rode Annas bus may have seen outside of just January 16th.
     
  2. Odyssey

    Odyssey Verfied Insider Diane Genice Dye

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    I am curious about that phone number in the letter to Seka. I have so far found out that the number is not listed in the 1973 directory. (Neither is the number on the Childrens Hospital paper for Gwen) My first thought is that since the letter specifically says to call that number between 10-1045, but doesn't specify what day to call, it must be someplace where one of the G's was regularly at that time. If they meant PM, this number could very well be a restaurant where he was well-enough known to the staff that he took phone calls there. If they meant AM, it could be a clinic where GW was working or possibly another hotel room. I suppose it could be their regular hotel room phone, but that would mean GW was the supposed writer of the letters - GB would be in the room most of the day, while GW worked during the day, came back to the hotel briefly, and went diner hopping with GB. It could be that they got back to the hotel around 10pm and wanted Seka to call before they went to sleep at 11pm or so?

    I still need to check some later directories for that number.
     
  3. SideKick

    SideKick Well-Known Member

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    January 16th, 1973 Timeline: *Note: Almost 2 hours passed since the school bus dropped Anna off.

    7:00 AM- Joe left for work

    7:30 AM- Anna and brothers on bus to school

    7:45 AM- Annasmom feeds chickens and animals

    10:00 AM-Rooster attacks horsewoman, Annasmom brings her to house,
    hysterical
    -another horseperson arrives at Ranch
    -horsepeople return to horsebarn together
    -rooster attacks woman again
    -horseman kills rooster and tosses in creek

    11:00 AM-Two friends with infant arrive from SF for visit with Annasmom

    Noon – Joe returns – construction job shut down due to rain

    12:20 – Anna arrives on school bus

    12:40 – Anna goes outside to play in yard, puts on red coat and rubber boots

    1:30 PM- Ranch resident (family friend) comes in back door for visit
    - Anna comes back in house
    - Friends from SF finish visit and leave
    - Resident/friend goes to road to collect previous day’s mail, returns

    2:00 PM- Annasmom hears Anna in bedroom/porch, talking (to cats?)

    2:10 PM- Carpenter friend of Joe arrives for visit

    2:15-2:20 PM- Annasmom, no longer hearing Anna-sounds, becomes
    alarmed. She had been monitoring sounds, as mothers do-
    back door opening and closing, Anna playing in yard

    2:20 PM – Annasmom panics-she, Joe and the two friends rush outside to
    look for Anna, shouting her name

    2:45PM – After a frantic search of the creek area and outbuildings, Sheriffs
    Department is called

    3:15 PM- Sheriffs Deputies arrive, blast siren. Formal search begins of ranch
    and creek


    *** Sometime later Joe’s friend reports that while coming up Purissima Rd,
    that he stopped and got out of his truck to admire some horses grazing.
    While there he was passed by a westbound van with two people inside
    that waved to him. He also said that when he arrived at our house at
    2:10 PM he saw Anna at the front of our house, said hi to her and came
    in.

    I agree that this white van shall we say, could have roamed up and down the road on several occasions and perhaps someone else spotted it in the 'hood' prior to abduction... However, if this was our two G's travelling in it to pursue Anna, then no it doesn't matter at all, as the G's picked this day, perhaps not knowing company at the ranch was planned for that day but in the midst of the event at the ranch they could have thought this good as more cars/people in the area may not notice them. What gets me is that it appears the window to grab Anna was like 5 minutes!! GEESH!
     
  4. Cubby

    Cubby fly the W!

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    Or the number for Seka to call could have been a pay phone within a restaurant. Back then pay phones received incoming calls. It wasn't until much much later pay phones no longer accepted incoming calls because too many drug dealers were conducting business that way.
     
  5. Cubby

    Cubby fly the W!

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    The short window of opportunity leads me to believe someone was watching for some amount of time and it wasn't a random opportunity of chance that very day. Someone had to pay at least enough attention to the routine in the area to have the confidence they could grab Anna without being seen or caught.
     
  6. SarahR

    SarahR New Member

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    In the UK, up until probably the last ten years, the public pay phones all had their own telephone numbers listed on the phone for you to call them. Not sure if thats case in USA, if it is, maybe theres a way to get the nb's of any public pay phone in that area at that time, long shot but you never know.
     
  7. pistolina

    pistolina New Member

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    I have been reading about Anna’s case for a few months on WS. You guys do an amazing job of tracking down all this information after so much time has passed. I haven’t had a chance to buy the book yet, so I do apologize if this question has been entertained – but after reading the time line of the day – I am wondering if maybe Anna was not talking to the cat at 2pm but to her abductor(s). Could they have been asking her about her cats to try and gain her trust to lure her away from the house?
     
  8. Joe Ford

    Joe Ford Rest in Peace

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    ZIMS at Geary and Van Ness and one further downtown were the two that I remember. I am pretty sure that they were never privy to anything other than a pay-phone at either location. While GW was at work Brody spent most of his time watching TV in their room at the hotel. I never saw him socialize with anyone other than GW.
     
  9. OzzieMum

    OzzieMum Member

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    Don't forget about the couple in the car that tried to get Anna to go with them a month earlier. This couple could have been paid by GB (alone) to abduct Anna.

    No doubt GB would have see Anna as a financial drain on GW and there is always the possibility that GW had been thinking about reconnecting with Anna, which I'm sure would not have pleased GB as this would also bring the possibility that GW would make Anna part beneficiary of his insurance policies. This would be motive enough for GB to get rid of Anna.

    As for the van, we have just assumed that the older and younger man could have been GB an GW but it could also have been GB and the man in the car from the earlier attempt to take Anna. The woman from the car could have been in the back of the van and she may have been who Anna was talking to at the back of the house. If Annasmom had of come out and caught a strange woman talking to Anna it wouldn't look as suspicious as a strange man talking to Anna. I really think the couple in the car are the key here.

    I believe this was very well planned but it was also a crime of opportunity in the sense that they executed the plan when the opportunity presented itself. Having so many people coming and going that day probably made it easier for the abductors as Annasmom and Joe were busy entertaining their guests.
     
  10. OzzieMum

    OzzieMum Member

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    The other thing I have been think about is that after GB died, GW might have discovered what GB did while going through his belongings. This could be the reason for GW doing the paperwork clean up and only leaving specific things in the BFH eg; the medical slip to show he was working that day and bank statements to show his movements around the time of Anna's disappearance.

    Maybe GW killed himself after finding out that his mentor was nothing but a fraud and he couldn't live with himself because of what GB had done to Anna.

    Just throwing it out there.
     
  11. Dr. Doogie

    Dr. Doogie New Member

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    Actually, the bus driver told me that she DID see a white car west of farm near the intersection of PC and Verde Roads when she continued her route. It should be noted that she said a car, not a van. And, unfortunately, she told me this decades after the event - she was not questioned by the original investigators.

    So the possibilities are:

    *That the van and the car are unrelated.

    *That the van and car were both involved.

    *That Craig was mistaken when he identified a "van".

    *That the bus driver was mistaken whe she identified a "car".

    It seems unlikely that two vehicles were involved if the two men were GW and GB, since Brody did not drive (that we are aware of) which points away from the second possibility. The first possibility is the most likely, but the other two remaining possibilities remain... errr... possible.
     
  12. Dr. Doogie

    Dr. Doogie New Member

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    Ozziemom:

    Your two immediately above posts are excellent deductions from the data. They make perfect sense.
     
  13. OzzieMum

    OzzieMum Member

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    Thanks Dr. Doogie. Really glad you can see where I coming from on this. I think it's a real possibility that we should consider.

    I really do believe that the couple in the car are the lynch pin here, regardless of the reasons why.

    1) The couple in the car wanted a beautiful little girl to raise as their own. If this was the case, I can't see them giving up after one attempt if they had their heart set on Anna.

    2) The couple in the car were in the illegal adoption business and little blonde girls are a premium.

    3) GB wanted Anna out of the way for financial reasons and paid the couple in the car to abduct her, without GW's knowledge (and GB went with them the second time to make sure the job wasn't botched again).

    4) GB and GW were in on it together and paid the couple in the car to abduct Anna so they could have her illegally adopted for money.

    Hi Annasmom,

    A little while ago I brought up the suggestion of Annasbro being hypnotized to see if he could recall any more information about the couple in the car or the car it's self, eg make/model of the car, rego. number, description of the woman/couple. Is this a possibility? I wouldn't ask if I didn't think it was really important.
     
  14. Annasmom

    Annasmom Well-Known Member

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    Ozziemum, I'll PM you about this.
     
  15. Annasmom

    Annasmom Well-Known Member

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    If you look at Post No. 2 of the thread Theory #1: Stranger Abduction by the "Couple in the Car", you'll see a pretty thorough description by Annasbro. After 37 years, I doubt that we could get much more than this. It's amazing that he was able to come up with this at all. As you know, the first we heard of this story was only a couple of years ago. He thought he had mentioned it, but he hadn't.
     
  16. one_hooah_wife

    one_hooah_wife Loving Colorado!

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    Hi, I am trying to locate the philosophy chart that GB/GW made ... I found reference to it in an early thread but the link to the yahoo photos account no longer works.

    TYA
     
  17. SherlockJr

    SherlockJr New Member

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    At you service...
     

    Attached Files:

  18. Dr. Doogie

    Dr. Doogie New Member

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    There was a Zims at Geary and Van Ness and one at Market and Van Ness (not far from the Civic Center). The Zims chain specialized in having a very small menu, but dirt cheap prices - their cheeseburgers were the hot item there. Most were built so that most all seating was at a "U" shaped counter with few booths or tables. The chain closed down probably around 15 years ago.
     
  19. Cubby

    Cubby fly the W!

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    The yahoo photos were moved to flickr a few years back. The link for the flickr (formerly yahoo) photos are in the sticky threads 'Images- no discussion' and 'Anna's Vital Statistics and Case Details' at the top of this forum.
     
  20. Annasmom

    Annasmom Well-Known Member

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    I can't find the letter, but it seems to me that GW's nephew wrote me about looking in the pockets of GW's clothing the brother brought home after he cleaned out the Abbey hotel room. He said he found a matchbook in a jacket pocket, and I think it was from a Denny's. He said that was all he had from his uncle.
     

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