Theory #4: All Other Theories

Discussion in 'Anna Christian Waters' started by Dr. Doogie, Mar 9, 2006.

  1. Cubby

    Cubby fly the W!

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    Going back over the possibility Anna drowned.

    I've read back, and the last time Joe Ford commented he wasn't entirely certain the possibility of Anna drowing, or not being uncovered via the initial seaches weighed heavy on his mind. With all due respect, especially to Annasmom and family, I think we need to reconsider and re-examine certain possibilities or scenarios. With no stone unturned comes no tunnel vision to any single theory either.

    For those who have had the opportunity to read all the threads and come here late, to summarize the creek was searched many times. We don't have a 'timeline' so to speak on when the search of the creek concluded, but based on a few things, I think it is possible previous searches did not fully eliminate the possibility Anna is not far from where she went missing.

    1)The creek: I would like to know if we have a timeline, at least a minimal timeline when the search of the creek concluded.


    2)The property where Anna went missing is, IIRC, well over 600 acres and privately owned. Being privately owned it has been inaccesible for some time.

    3)Most of us WS'rs who follow several cases, especially recent cases, and have had the opportunity to scrutinize, (some almost under a microscope based on media and available info) KNOW that evidence and remains have been found on property that had been searched very thoroughly numerous times.

    4) I would love to be able to (and this may be just a wish list) have a map done of the original property boundaries and area searched with an overlap kind of thing of current private property and property available to the public for hiking etc. In other words, an A Area originally searched, B creek searched, C current private property D current public property. I envision this with multi transclucent color mapped out and marked accordingly.

    I can't personally rule out Anna is not still somewhere in the general area..
    but as a non local, I can't personally get there to foot search on current public property. And after close to 40 years I can't say that whatever remains existed haven't been scattered
    The above may be helpful to get Annas case out to those in the area who have access to public property.

    I also think, given Anna went missing in January, which is a winter month, the small possibility exists the noise like someone was stealing something heard by a neighbor was perhaps Anna being the victim of a mountain lion, or coyote.

    I'm coming back to this again, due to the lack of evidence to support or rule out any theory. Because of that, it might help to at least get a flier out to those in the immediate area who have access to public area's. Especially in the event something small might be uncovered, which could be forensically tied to Anna and finally find an answer to Annas disappearance.

    jmo respectfully.
     
  2. Dr. Doogie

    Dr. Doogie New Member

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    I firmly believe that the creek theory is highly improbable.

    *The creek was thoroughly examined over several weeks in numerous searches - both immediately after the disappearance and even inch-by-inch by Joe in scuba gear. Add to the fact that no one has found any unidentified human bones in or near the creek in the 37 years since (the one exception was the body found from the unrelated murder downstream where the victim's body was buried in an earthen dam).

    *The creek has heavy foilage the entire lenth from the farm to the ocean (a couple of miles length). Having viewed the foilage, I highly doubt that Anna could have washed out to sea.

    *If Anna's body had made it to the ocean, local fisherman thoroughly scoured the area where the creek flowed into the ocean for several days after the disappearance.

    All of this adds up to the following scenario: if Anna went iinto the creek, she would have had to not gotten caught up in the vegatation and washed out to sea, then her body would have had to not float, but immediately sunk to the oceans depths never to be seen again - no body, no clothes, no bones, nothing.

    I also doubt the wild animal attack scenario since such attacks very rarely result in a victim being completely consumed by the predator with no body parts or clothing found later. The thorough search of the area would have turned up evidence of such an attack - remember, Anna was close by the home when she disappeared, so it is unlikely that such an attack could have occured without noise or evidence such as a pool of blood not being noticed by the searchers.
     
  3. Cubby

    Cubby fly the W!

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    Considering how many cases we have seen at WS where area's were searched multiple times- with todays standards - and later evidence was found of missing persons in those same area's, I'm hesitant to say with certainty we can conclusively rule out the possibilities Anna washed up away from the creek when water levels lowered, or was the victim of an animal attack, within or immediately outside the area's searched.

    However, without a map of the full area searched it is hard to say either way. Especially given the area's which are or are not currently available to public access.

    Back to the no stone unturned, I think this possibility should be considered, if for nothing else to ensure anyone with access to these area's might give second thought to any evidence which might be found.

    If by the small chance, evidence of Anna is still in the area, I would hate to think evidence may go unfound if we choose to limit the avenues which to research.

    Heavy foliage leads me to believe moreso, evidence could have been missed....

    Do we know how far outside it's normal banks the creek flowed during the flood stage and how wide did that overflow extend over the 4 miles or so from the farm to the ocean? How much foliage might have covered how far the creek overflowed in the days, weeks and months following Annas disappearance?

    If people still have access to this area along the creek, would it not be wise to ensure anyone with access was aware of Annas case? or is that area so heavily traveled we can conclusively rule it out?

    jmo
     
  4. yosande

    yosande ...

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    Well, that's strange. Who would not be sympathetic about a missing five year girl?
    moo
     
  5. yosande

    yosande ...

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    Imo, because Anna's bro witnessed a possible attempted abduction, iirc, three weeks prior, of Anna even with the brothers there, that they were bold enough to return, and try again.
    Whether they were hired by someone else, or they themselves wanted her, who knows, but the falling into the creek imo isn't what happened to Anna. Her rubber boots would have been easy enough to see, and would have floated.

    I'm equally sure that research has been done about any wells, whether water, oil, or any other kind, and Anna's mom is sure that didn't happen to her.

    She didn't wander off in 10 minutes with all those people looking for her, and not even her rubber boots were found.

    What is left? The simple explanation is what most have come to the conclusion of which is an abduction.

    Whether it was a long planned out event from Mr. Brody, or from strangers in that car, or someone in the motorcycle or horse club, the unsympathetic landlord, the strange neighbor, or the two men in the van, or anyone else.

    The fact that the farm was so far out in the country, imo, really means that whoever took her either knew her, or had visited the farm and knew she lived there.

    The timing of her disappearance being after her bus dropped her off, but before her brothers arrived, imo, says it was planned. Whoever it was didn't know Mr. Ford would be home, or that their guests would be there, but that worked out in their favor as Anna's mom was likely distracted by them giving the criminals an unexpected additional advantage.


    Even though she hasn't been found, imo, the likelyhood of her being alive is good.
    It is my hope that she discovers her picture online, whether she knows she was taken or not, and one day calls.

    If the mystery of what happened to Anna is never resolved, I know that Anna's mom will be reunited with her in glory. So there is hope in life, and there is hope after this life.

    God bless all the efforts to each and every person who has cried for her, and searched for her, and especially her family.
    Thiis is all my opinion only.
     
  6. Cubby

    Cubby fly the W!

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    I agree with much of what you have posted yosande, but until Anna is returned, we can not conclusively rule out any theory.

    I've bumped all of the 4 theories regarding Annas case, so the newbies reading can chime in. We are blessed to have as many new posters and lurkers as we have to Annas case so many years later. There are literally thousands of cases here at WS begging for so much as a view to have this much activity on Annas case is a blessing.

    I think starting from scratch, given the number of new readers is ok, and revisiting various theories is fair if we want new eyes on this case.

    I do recall reading, that foot prints and evidence along the creek was likely compromised due to the number of visitors at Annas home searching prior to LE arriving, so I think it is fair to revisit this theory with new ideas and see what we might uncover. Of course not to the exclusion of other theories.

    jmo respectfully.
     
  7. Cubby

    Cubby fly the W!

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    Respectfully snipped. Within the 14 pages of docs Annasmom recently posted in the FOIA thread she mentioned the possibility of Anna being upset over one of the farm workers having killed the chicken that attacked him and another farm worker (IIRC). Within those docs it was mentioned Anna might have gone near the creek to search for the rooster that was tossed into the creek.

    If Anna had gone searching into the heavily wooded area, with heavy foliage along the creek, become lost - which would be quite easy for a young child to do- it is possible she wandered into the wooded/heavily foliage area, became lost, and was not found in the numerous searches. Is it likely? I dunno. I have a young child and he wanders in many area's having the mind of a child not recognizing possible dangers.

    IMO, it would be nice to know how far the search extended beyond the banks of the creek, and into the wooded area, if at all..... which still leaves the possibility of uncovered evidence being found this many years later
    ~ IF ~ we can ensure Annas info is available to those hiking the area or those with access to the area.

    Do we have a list of hiking clubs and sports clubs in the area?

    tia

    jmo.
     
  8. Cubby

    Cubby fly the W!

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    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=11557&d=1285813749

    I hope the link works. The above attachment mentions the area of the creek which was searched.

    It appears to read an area of 1 mile circumference from Annas residence and the length of the creek were searched on 01/17/1973.

    If it was approximately 45 minutes from the time Anna went missing to the time LE arrived on the 16th, I think it is possible Anna would have been able to wander, if lost and trying to find her way home, outside the area of 1 mile in 45 min. IIRC, an average walk is 20 min for a mile.

    I'm still curious about Anna walking along but not falling into the creek and how far into the woods and foliage Anna could have wandered in an appx 45 min time span.

    I can't help but imagining Anna walking along the creek searching for the hen which was tossed into the river. Turning around and not recognizing where she was... trying to find her way home and getting lost outside the area which was searched. Especially in an area surrounded by redwoods.

    What if she did get lost outside the search area in a wooded heavily foliaged area? If the area does not get heavy foot traffic, I think it is still a possibility.

    jmo
     
  9. Cubby

    Cubby fly the W!

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    I found this you-tube video of Purisima Creek. The caption from the person who uploaded the video:

    Various shots taken after the '06 New Years storms while running in Purisima Creek Redwoods. This was fun!!

    Purisima Creek: Purdy Pharis Circuit - YouTube
     
  10. Cubby

    Cubby fly the W!

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    :bump:

    bumping the theory threads back to the top of the page.
     
  11. Cubby

    Cubby fly the W!

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    I've hemmed and hawed over whether or not I should post this, but have decided to do so because I believe it lends further credence to evidence we believe proves Anna did not fall into the creek.

    I asked my step dad about the boots after we discovered the information about NamUs case 9597. My step dad is retired LE and retired in 1983 as Chief of Police after having been in LE about 20-25 years. (He was retired from LE already when he met my mom, so I didn't know him while he was still a LEO). His area of service was outside the metro Chicago area in the more rural area's of IL outside of the metro Chicago area and in Central IL.

    After having given him the information we know about the search of the Creek and the information known about the landscape which the creek runs through, here are his thoughts (paraphrased from memory).

    He had no explanation why the boots would not have been found if Anna fell into the creek. He feels either the boots should have been found if they were so oversized they would have fallen off her feet.

    Or, he feels that the boots would have served as an anchor and she would have been found. His description of how the boots would have served as an anchor follows. Somewhat graphic description of how those boots would have served as an anchor so please use discretion if one wishes to read the remainder of the post.










    He said if a young child of Anna's age stepped or fell into the creek with rubber boots on, if she was able to get her footing, the boots would have sunk into the mud and then filled up with water. Stating that it would have been very difficult, if not impossible, for a child of 5 to pull her feet out of rubber boots sunk into the mud but filled with water. He really thought it would be impossible for a child of age 5 to pull their feet out of sunken rubber boots filled with water.

    He went on to say it would have been difficult to very difficult, but possible for an adult to pull their feet out, but not a child. He further went on to say, those boots filled with water should have held her in place at the point of entry into the creek, and that is where she should have been found.

    I found his explanation to be very plausible having some first hand experience myself with getting stuck in either a bog or wetlands with a then small for his age 7 yr old. (My Godson) . One step out of the 6 wheeler I was knee deep in mud and when I pulled my foot out my shoe was gone. It was very difficult to walk through and I carried my godson piggy back to get out of the muddy area. This was mud only, without strong water to make it more difficult. It ended up taking the guys 4-5 days to get the 6 wheeler unstuck.

    While the above description is somewhat disturbing to think about, it is a plausible explanation we had not previously considered and I do believe it provides further proof Anna would have been found if she fell into the creek.
     
  12. smile22

    smile22 Live Laugh Love

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    i went back into some old threads but cant find the answer i was looking for did we at one time pursue adoption websites where annas info was posted? if so how long ago have we done that. im willing to post some info on the websites.

    im also looking for the thread or post about that girl who claims she saw anna as a teenager with that man something about rentals or robberys can anyone confirm that those leads were fully checked out and this person is not anna or what was the story on it
     
  13. MissMarple

    MissMarple New Member

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    I remember it also...but she could not speak...afraid or so....I whish my dad can talk with her...she would remember her past lifes too...:waitasec:

    Can not imagine, my brain is too small for it, that if someone know something can not write even anonymous letter...
     
  14. Annasmom

    Annasmom Well-Known Member

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    Please see pages 196-199 in Searching For Anna. These leads were checked out as far as was possible.
     
  15. SideKick

    SideKick Well-Known Member

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    ~~ We have posted Anna on several adoption websites. One common one is adoption.com - just type in Anna Christian Waters....
    We have also checked many adoption sites as well to see if she has posted herself.
     
  16. smile22

    smile22 Live Laugh Love

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    thanks when i get a chance later on today after work or tomorrow sometime ill look into that again.
     
  17. smile22

    smile22 Live Laugh Love

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    ok with the usa being so big i think we should figure out where people live if your not comfortable giving out your state you can give a general area like new england, mid west mid atlantic so forth. i think we should somehow explore all other avenues from there like going on adoption websites and looking at females who are posting from other states with the same year date of birth as anna with a ton of unknowns? what does everyone think about something like that.

    my theory is whoever took her was going to take her far away from the house life she knew. would they stay in California even though its a huge state and risk being found.?

    would they have taken her someplace far like the midwest, northeast, someplace south?
     
  18. SideKick

    SideKick Well-Known Member

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    Wasn't sure where to add my question. But I think it is a grand idea to make a list of all potential adopters. List all the people in relation to this case.
    Example:
    Evelyn Wanek - maybe write the relationship and possibility of taking Anna 'in'.
    Seka - etc.. ..
    Any Greece contacts of GW's? We must think of anyone at all who they may have known....
    I will open the thread if we agree. I think it makes the list simple and easy to work from.

    SK
     
  19. Cubby

    Cubby fly the W!

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    We already have threads set up for Evelyn Wanek and Seka. We need to be careful not to set up threads for topics which can be discussed in threads currently open.

    I think we can discuss Evelyn and Seka in their respective threads, and an adoptee list or adopter list would be appropriate for this thread, All other theories- which includes adoption by someone other than the couple in the car or the G's being involved falls perfectly into the title of this thread.
     
  20. SideKick

    SideKick Well-Known Member

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    ~ Well, I know we do have individual threads for E and S, I had in mind just quick shopping list of people who may have been involved, an 'at a glance' list.

    Example:

    Evelyn
    Seka
    anyone at Zims
    Doctors/nurses GW knew
    Landords
    Any student GW may have worked with
    Greece connections
    Back to the lawyer... Wally
    Romero - medical slip person
    A stranger, if so, how did they meet that person? I believe it is someone we are aware of or close.
    etc... someone has her, who is it?
     

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