Theory Thread

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BB12 said:
Mental Illness - pathology - to have a little virgin girl die - might be to set her spirits free? Clearly this is not a well person and she has a alledged history of drugging at least one child with rumors of there being 2. Police said murder weapon on the evening the remains where discovered not after autopsy. Police said Sandra was dead before she was reported missing. Melissa history and religous background leads me to speculate- setting spirits free - schizophrenia- is a brain disease that interferes with normal brain functioning. It causes affected people to exhibit odd and often highly irrational or disorganized behavior. Because the brain is the organ in the body where thinking, feeling and understanding of the world takes place (where consciousness exists), a brain disease like schizophrenia alters thinking, feeling, understanding and consciousness itself in affected persons, changing their lives for the worse. People affected with schizophrenia have difficulty thinking coherently, interacting with others normally, carrying out responsibilities and expressing emotions appropriately.
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With Easter coming up, that thought also occurred to me: Virgin sacrifice.:eek::eek::eek:
 
panthera said:
Just reading back and thought of something. Sandra went to a friend's house, left there and went to MH's house to play with her daughter. MH supposedly told Sandra she can't play, that her daughter has to put her toys up. So, I'm wondering if Sandra coming to the house, she saw something at that house she should not have seen and MH had to keep her quiet? Or do you all think MH just made this whole thing up and actually lured Sandra over to the house?
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I think she lured her just out of range of the cameras, either to her house, to her car, or walked her to the church.
 
Could someone please post a link that explains the Tracy 60 ? Thank you.

Along with many of you I too am trying to catch up so forgive me if this has been revealed.

Has it been confirmed that Sandra was sexually abused in some way?
 
Tricia said:
Could someone please post a link that explains the Tracy 60 ? Thank you.

Along with many of you I too am trying to catch up so forgive me if this has been revealed.

Has it been confirmed that Sandra was sexually abused in some way?
Click to expand...

Here's a link I just found online:

http://www.protect.org/Where-are-the-Tracy-60.html

As far as sexually abused, it's still speculation at this point but could just be true sadly.
 
As I posted on the Tracy60 thread we have here in Sandra's forum I am very wary of this story.

The Tracy 60 story that is.

could someone please find another source other than this one posted by Dr. Know?

Pedo rings exist. Scary organized rings. Operating world wide. Also, hysteria around purported pedo and sex abuse rings happens as well.

This story about the Tracy60 is so vague that it bothers me.

However, since no names are mentioned there is no reason we can't discuss it. Just put me in the very wary column. Unless someone can find more info for me.
 
Tricia said:
As I posted on the Tracy60 thread we have here in Sandra's forum I am very wary of this story.

The Tracy 60 story that is.

could someone please find another source other than this one posted by Dr. Know?

Pedo rings exist. Scary organized rings. Operating world wide. Also, hysteria around purported pedo and sex abuse rings happens as well.

This story about the Tracy60 is so vague that it bothers me.

However, since no names are mentioned there is no reason we can't discuss it. Just put me in the very wary column. Unless someone can find more info for me.
Click to expand...
Tricia, it took me a while to find this but here's an article I'd read earlier.
Apr-06-2009 11:38
Child *advertiser censored* Traffickers Cited in Missing Child Search

Salem-News.com
In a precedent that could have a major impact nationwide, California police say they are looking at known child *advertiser censored* traffickers in a missing child case.
​

Missing poster for Sandra Cantu​


(TRACY, Calif.) - Police in Tracy, California, a city of 80,000 just east of San Francisco, are searching for an 8 year-old child, Sandra Cantu, who disappeared March 27th.
Now, according to the Tracy Press, investigators in the case say they are looking at 60 individuals in the Tracy area who have been identified trafficking in child *advertiser censored*, along with 78 "registered" sex offenders.
It is believed to be the first time in the U.S. that police have publicly acknowledged the huge population of known but not arrested child *advertiser censored* suspects in a missing child case.
While visiting the homes of "registered" sex offenders is common in missing children cases, the public is mostly unaware that U.S. law enforcement has also identified hundreds of thousands of criminals trafficking in child *advertiser censored*.
Fewer than 2% of these suspects are ever investigated, as police and lawmakers focus on other priorities.
Most law enforcement agencies are reluctant to acknowledge the existence of these suspects, because doing so would put huge numbers of unsolved crimes on their boards... crimes they are not now investigating.
Pursuing the 60 known Tracy child *advertiser censored* traffickers would, without question, lead to the rescue of many local children who are suffering at the hands of sexual predators, many within their own homes.
If authorities follow through on their plan, they will seek 60 subpoenas and then locate and interview these individuals. Tracy could then expect a wave of successful child *advertiser censored* and child abuse investigations and prosecutions.

more at:

http://www.salem-news.com/articles/april062009/child_porn_connect_4-6-09.php
 
I really thought Melissa was grabbing her for a boyfriend until I heard that LE said no more arrests were pending. IMO, they would have arrested any suspected accomplice right after her interview if that was the case.

Melissa was talking to reporters about a drugging incident? I haven't seen any arrest booking for this. Can't imagine if it really happened that a WS'r wouldn't have found it- maybe there wasn't enough evidence and she was not booked? IDK.

Maybe Sandra caught Melissa doing something she was ashamed of?

Maybe Melissa was in a rage over something; jealous of her daughter vs. Sandra?

Accident? I tend to doubt that per prior stealing records. A Sunday School teacher and preacher's granddaughter who is not unstable/covering up/dealing with guilt wouldn't be a thief, much less think of covering up for an accident.

She was facing a hearing for the stealing very soon. I wonder if she just thought it was all going to come out anyway, so why not do whatever she "really" wanted to do before it all hit the fan?

As you can see, I have no one theory, just lots of maybe's.

Also a suspicion that some kind of religion vs. sex conflict might be the fulcrum.
 
I never did vote for who I thought killed Sandra because I couldn't decide until the articles about Melissa hit the internet five minutes before the presser Friday. From that point I was pretty sure it was her, thanks especially to the awesome reporter who was knowledgeable about a previous incident and peppered Sgt. Sheneman with revealing questions. Still I thought Melissa acted in conjunction with a man, but at that point I was too busy in the "Melissa" thread to think about voting. After her arrest early Saturday morning and watching the presser, I've had a full day to read through the threads and think about it, and I am revising my working theory. For the first time I feel strongly enough about what happened to go on record. (I know, you guys have just been sitting on the edge of your seats, haven't you? LOL)

I think Melissa acted alone and did not sexually abuse Sandra. I suspect she acted in anger or jealousy and just flipped out. I don't believe it was planned. It may have been directed at Sandra or Sandra's family, or something else. I don't think anyone else was involved at all or knew about it after the fact. I think it's possible the grandparents suspected (maybe "feared" is a better word) something by the time they were interviewed by reporters who stopped them in their car. If the grandparents suspected Melissa might be involved, knew she had violent tendencies (which I suspect will be determined), and Pastor Lawless had been answering questions by LE all night about Melissa, it would explain two thing which have made people think the grandparents were involved:

1. The grandfather would have been surprised when asked if he had anything to do with Sandra's death, and his reaction would have been totally normal. If he had been expecting questions about his granddaughter but the questions were about him instead, repeating the question before answering would be perfectly normal to give him time to think. Additionally, he is 77 years old, had been grilled by LE all night, his car was surrounded by reporters and looky-loos, and for all we know he may frequently repeat questions before answering them. I don't think his reaction convicts him of anything other than being old.

2. Melissa's grandmother let the word "abused" slip, which made people immediately think the church existed for the sole purpose of sexually abusing children. I'm just not buying that. She looks like a normal "grandmother type" to me, and though looks can be deceiving my hinky meter doesn't react to her. It always seemed ironic that there was a rush to judgment over that statement, when almost everyone here thought the same exact thing...myself included, at the time. However, what if Melissa's grandmother really only meant Sandra had been abused, not sexually abused, because she was starting to suspect Melissa was the person responsible? It would make complete sense that she would know the kind of person Melissa was since she was living in their home with her five year old daughter.

There are too many rumors or theories which have been accepted as fact. When I examine the source of those statements, it is often Melissa herself. Melissa said her grandmother was home, Melissa said Sandra's sister came over, Melissa said she was going to the church, Melissa said she teaches Sunday School at the church, Melissa said her grandmother called her at the church, Melissa said there was a note telling where Sandra's body was, Melissa said there were Sunday School supplies in the suitcase, Melissa said there were scrapbooking supplies in the suitcase, Melissa said Sandra played with her daughter then left to go to another person's house, Melissa said Sandra came back a second time, Melissa, Melissa, Melissa. Melissa likes to talk about Melissa.

We have ONE video of Sandra walking in the direction of Melissa's house. That's all. Until LE confirms this information, I'm not wasting my time trying to figure out why Sandra's sister watched Melissa's daughter when Melissa's grandmother was home, as well as other inconsistencies which can be traced back to Melissa's own chronically-lying lips. Because Melissa's statements to LE conflicted with what she told the media, LE questioned her again and it led to her arrest. She's obviously not a source we can trust, and I can't determine which stories are truth and which are lies. I'll wait for LE to do the footwork.

Where did Melissa kill Sandra? I don't know. I don't care. Throw her in the chair and flip the switch.

As far as Williams is concerned I don't think he's involved. I just think he's an idiot. Simply put, I believe he likes to see himself in a place of importance and he has inserted himself into this situation trying to be impressive. Instead he has made a fool of himself, and implicated himself by some of his actions. I can't explain the fact that he appears to be responsible for the note from Sandra's killer. That's just strange. However, LE stated they don't think it is pertinent to this case, so I'll go with their decision. Perhaps he suspected Melissa was guilty...perhaps he wanted to insert himself into the situation to look important...perhaps he wanted to throw LE a curve ball...but I'll go with my original assessment. I just think he's an idiot.

I believe Wohler should be locked up for the rest of his life. He made a public confession that he kissed a little girl on the lips "to be nice" and he doesn't see anything wrong with that. If someone did that to my child I would personally beat the crap out of him, no questions asked. If there was anything left, I'd bring him home for my dog to chew on. I have ZERO tolerance for perverts. Lock him up, destroy the key, and prevent a future assault from happening...it's only a matter of time.

Sinclair and Slaytor I suspect just like to party. I doubt they are involved with anything more, but ya never know.

Waiting so long to form an opinion resulted in a MUCH longer post than I expected! If you're still reading...sorry! Sweet Sandra deserves justice, and I'm so mad just thinking about her little life being cut short by such an evil person - guess it all just came pouring out. Sorry about that, but it was therapeutic for me...hope it wasn't too boring for everyone else. I'm thankful the Tracy LE is on top of things, Sandra deserved the best and I think Tracy LE has built a solid case. These are my opinions only, and I may be completely wrong about all the "extra players" in this case. They may all turn out to be criminals, or they may all turn out to be gentlemen...except Wohler, he's a criminal.
 
Very thorough post, Nora.
Thank you for your theory.
I agree with what you posted about the " Melissa said" part most of all. We do only have HER lying lips as proof.
I know she's a liar.. I suspect she's part of this murder, but I do not know that she is the only one involved just yet.
Police MAY have arrested the " weakest link" in the chain to get her to plea out in exchange for everything that has happened since she's been living at the GP's trailer. IDK.. She may be the rare, female, non-familial child killer.
If so, I suspect that drugs and mental illness contributed to her bizarre and criminal actions. Not that she is criminally insane, of course.

IF she acted alone, I can accept the outcome, and would be relieved if she wasn't tortured and raped by a male pedo. It's still bizarre that a portable type bed was removed from the church. There are some parts to the crime that I don't have resolution on, such as where the murder happened, and how Sandra's body was placed into the suitcase undetected.
 
I haven't had a chance yet today to read anything that may have come out overnight about this case, so I may be missing something. But after spending the better part of yesterday reading about this Melissa, I've come to the conclusion she most likely acted alone, this is NOT a sex crime as previously believed, and LE may never know the REASON for this murder, AND the defendent most likely will use the defense of 'insane.'

I could be wrong, but from what I've seen so far, I honestly do believe she is crazy. Literally........

The reason I say this is personal experience with someone similar. I'm presently living with my son and his family. They have a neighbor very much like Melissa. This person is ok as long as she takes her medicine, but when she goes off her meds, all bets are off as to what she will do. Seriously, it's very scary.

My son has had to take a restraining order out on this person. She's come in their back yard when they're not home and tried to lure their two young sons outside, they were in the house playing video games, for what purpose?, no one knows.

This woman can be talking to you completely rationally one minute and turn right around and accuse you of a crime, anywhere from causing her bodily harm to breaking into her home and stealing from her. Yet she's the one, who when off meds, wanders the neighborhood and trashes neighbor's cars with baseball bats, (that one got her 6 months in a mental ward), to walking into a neighbor's home while everyone is asleep, with her dog, and rummaging through their refrigerator for left-over Thanksgiving dinner, (that one got her 3 months in woman's detention for breaking and entering). That same morning, before LE arrived, after she was driven out of the neighbor's home, she came over to my son's and stole Christmas decorations in his front lawn. Why?

The officer giving the news update yesterday morning said that when Melissa was interviewed, she would be completely calm one minute and upset the next and then seemed resigned.............This is EXACTLY how this woman next door acts. Talking calmly one minute and totally turning on you the next.

I'm certain her grandparents knew of Melissa's mental fragility, but they most likely never thought it could possibly turn to murder. Much of the investigation centering around the church and such the past few weeks were probably uncovering involvement of someone connected to the church in Sandra's disappearance, but it wasn't until Melissa herself and her inconsistancies began, that LE was able to pin-point WHO the leads were heading to.

I doubt if Melissa even knows why she did this. That's most likely why she became emotional at one point when talking to LE, she may have suddenly realized she was personally responsible for the harm perpetrated upon Sandra. Then during the course of the questioning, she came to the point she knew she was going to go to jail, she became resigned. Now I understand she's on suicide watch.

What a sad case. It makes me weep to see all this pain because of one, most likely,...... literally, 'sick person.' Who knew her illness would cause her to kill? Up to now Melissa's illness only involved 'things,' ie theft. But murder of a defenseless child!

Scary...........VERY SCARY.

God bless Sandra and may she RIP. My prayers to Sandra's family for their healing.

JMHO
fran

PS.......what's even more scary about our 'crazy neighbor,' she USED to be a school TEACHER. OhMyGosh! fran
 
the only way i see MH acting alone is if she was ALONE at the house/church where Sandra was murdered
if there was people in the house/church (sorry i say house/church because i don't know the set-up or where Sandra was actually murdered) so if there were others in the church/house then i would say it's hard to murder someone when there's others around--im not so sure she acted alone...
 
The way things got disjointed, around Melissa, at the time Sandra went missing, appears to me she may have acted alone. I don't know how she got Sandra in her car, but the suddenly asking Sandra's sister to watch her little girl, yet the grandmother was there, her frantic look for the keys and cell phone and then leaving without them.

It points to me that she was doing this, most likely under the eye of everyone else, they just didn't see it. Her grandmother may have been in the house, busy, not seeing what was going on out in front. Melissa wanted to occupy her daughter so she asked Sandra's sister to 'play,' ie 'watch' her. She went to the church and then grandmom calls and says she found the 'keys and cell phone.'

I believe she left home in a hurry. It wasn't planned. From news articles today, it appears the 'crime scene' was actually the church. Yesterday the officer said they 'knew' the crime scene, but he couldn't reveal it.

Melissa is accused of 'kidnapping,' ie taking Sandra to the church, and 'murder,' ie she killed her at the church. I haven't seen, but may have missed, that there was someone else at the church when Melissa arrived there that afternoon. I'm open to new ideas or information though.

JMHO
fran
 
fran said:
I haven't had a chance yet today to read anything that may have come out overnight about this case, so I may be missing something. But after spending the better part of yesterday reading about this Melissa, I've come to the conclusion she most likely acted alone, this is NOT a sex crime as previously believed, and LE may never know the REASON for this murder, AND the defendent most likely will use the defense of 'insane.'

I could be wrong, but from what I've seen so far, I honestly do believe she is crazy. Literally........

The reason I say this is personal experience with someone similar. I'm presently living with my son and his family. They have a neighbor very much like Melissa. This person is ok as long as she takes her medicine, but when she goes off her meds, all bets are off as to what she will do. Seriously, it's very scary.

My son has had to take a restraining order out on this person. She's come in their back yard when they're not home and tried to lure their two young sons outside, they were in the house playing video games, for what purpose?, no one knows.

This woman can be talking to you completely rationally one minute and turn right around and accuse you of a crime, anywhere from causing her bodily harm to breaking into her home and stealing from her. Yet she's the one, who when off meds, wanders the neighborhood and trashes neighbor's cars with baseball bats, (that one got her 6 months in a mental ward), to walking into a neighbor's home while everyone is asleep, with her dog, and rummaging through their refrigerator for left-over Thanksgiving dinner, (that one got her 3 months in woman's detention for breaking and entering). That same morning, before LE arrived, after she was driven out of the neighbor's home, she came over to my son's and stole Christmas decorations in his front lawn. Why?

The officer giving the news update yesterday morning said that when Melissa was interviewed, she would be completely calm one minute and upset the next and then seemed resigned.............This is EXACTLY how this woman next door acts. Talking calmly one minute and totally turning on you the next.

I'm certain her grandparents knew of Melissa's mental fragility, but they most likely never thought it could possibly turn to murder. Much of the investigation centering around the church and such the past few weeks were probably uncovering involvement of someone connected to the church in Sandra's disappearance, but it wasn't until Melissa herself and her inconsistancies began, that LE was able to pin-point WHO the leads were heading to.

I doubt if Melissa even knows why she did this. That's most likely why she became emotional at one point when talking to LE, she may have suddenly realized she was personally responsible for the harm perpetrated upon Sandra. Then during the course of the questioning, she came to the point she knew she was going to go to jail, she became resigned. Now I understand she's on suicide watch.

What a sad case. It makes me weep to see all this pain because of one, most likely,...... literally, 'sick person.' Who knew her illness would cause her to kill? Up to now Melissa's illness only involved 'things,' ie theft. But murder of a defenseless child!

Scary...........VERY SCARY.

God bless Sandra and may she RIP. My prayers to Sandra's family for their healing.

JMHO
fran
PS.......what's even more scary about our 'crazy neighbor,' she USED to be a school TEACHER. OhMyGosh! fran
Click to expand...

Wow, thank you, fran. That's a very informative & helpful post. I wonder if Melissa should have been, or was, on meds.
 
panthera said:
You're right there is no proof at the moment, but it is possible, and we are speculating here on theories. What we do know is the ME is awaiting results of the toxicology tests. So, it is entirely possible that Sandra was drugged ~ whether 6 months ago, at the time of her death or both. I don't believe any of us intend to cause any further pain to Sandra's family. MOO
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I agree...no one here is trying to cause her family any more pain.
 
I was over on the MH thread, and discussing Munchausen's by proxy with Seriously Searching and Waltzingmatilda. This theory makes sense to me. I can't come up with any reason for a woman to harm a child, and insert theirself into the media spotlight at every given opportunity that fits better than Munchasen's. Maybe she got Sandra to the church and planned on Sandra having an "accident" or "illness" that MH was supposed to become the saviour, but the "accient/illness" went too far. The news reports about MH's 5 year old daughter being "sick a lot" and "sickly thin" sort of fit with the Munchausen syndrome also.
 
Reannan said:
I was over on the MH thread, and discussing Munchausen's by proxy with Seriously Searching and Waltzingmatilda. This theory makes sense to me. I can't come up with any reason for a woman to harm a child, and insert theirself into the media spotlight at every given opportunity that fits better than Munchasen's. Maybe she got Sandra to the church and planned on Sandra having an "accident" or "illness" that MH was supposed to become the saviour, but the "accient/illness" went too far. The news reports about MH's 5 year old daughter being "sick a lot" and "sickly thin" sort of fit with the Munchausen syndrome also.
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Thank you Reannan. It makes more sense to continue the discussion here on the theory thread since that's basically what it is at the moment...a theory. I truly feel MBP is a possibility tho.:blowkiss:
 
waltzingmatilda said:
Thank you Reannan. It makes more sense to continue the discussion here on the theory thread since that's basically what it is at the moment...a theory. I truly feel MBP is a possibility tho.:blowkiss:
Click to expand...

Hi Matilda! I hope your family time was great! Mine are all taking a nap (which is what I told them I was going to do....but instead I headed to the computer!!!) I think your MBP theory is spot-on. It makes so many aspects of this case fit into the puzzle, whereas nothing else makes sense to me. It will be an unusual MBP case, however, because this was not a "parent" harming a child - it was a neighbor, parent of a 'best-friend'. IMHO, that is absolutely a horrifying concept for a parent to deal with! How the heck to avoid that threat? Keep your children from having friends???
 
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