this is my opinion of course

[Shylock]

The problem with a blow to the head before strangulation is that it does not leave petechial hemorrhaging.

Oh yes it does! Please investigate the symptoms of severe head concussion readily available on the net. One of them is "mild to violent convulsions". It doesn't matter if convulsions are caused by lack of air from strangulation, or by head trauma, BOTH methods cause petechial hemorrhaging. When people die of convulsions, they are actually suffocating to death because they can't catch their breath.

 

[BlueCrab]

I thought that this was a self inflicted act, Of course, this same self-endangerment that may provide a thrill to the person carrying out auto-erotic asphyxiation also weakens one's self-control and judgment, possibly resulting in accidental death. It's estimated that between 500 and 1000 deaths occur annually in the United States from this dangerous type of masturbation. I don?t think this would apply to JonBenet.IMO

Peek-a-boo, ICU (sorry, I couldn't resist that),

Autoerotic asphyxiation (AEA) is solo masturbation. Erotic asphyxiation (EA) is masturbation using a partner.

In EA the partner masturbates the subject and simultaneously controls the ligature that temporarily asphyxiates the subject to maximize the orgasm. The subject's arms are usually tied overhead to keep him/her from involuntarily ripping off the ligature before the orgasm is complete because the body senses danger and wants to breathe no matter what. In EA the life of the subject is literally in the hands of the partner.

IMO the device wrapped around JonBenet's neck was designed for EA.

JMO

 

[txsvicki]

I'm here to help. :twocents:

I think it was deliberate. There was no lasceration on the head, no external swelling but petechial hemhorraging, ergo, strangulation first, head blow second. Too many aspects of the staging do not make sense in terms of staging for police, ergo, staging for viewing by the perp.

There are many, many concurrences (not coincidences) between the case and literature Patsy is known to have been associated with. The rn is full of symbolism known only to the writer. Many aspects of the staging are symbolic. DOI is full of symbolic and mythic references.

I think the event was carried out in a state of psychosis, which often has a mythic nature. Patsy believes she was saved from death by an interventionist super being, and that her daughter is now with that God in a non-dimensional, eternal realm awaiting her mother's arrival. Both are irrational conclusions, the tip of the psychotic iceberg. This was a one time event with the goal being achieved; JonBenet is in heaven, in a state of perfection and Patsy has that link and that hope. This ain't the first time this has been done and it won't be the last.

I'm here to answer the call. :blushing:

Not trying to cause any sort of argument, but I have never heard of, or read a word that belief in God,salvation, in life after death, heaven, and God's being in charge is in any way considered a mental illness or a symptom of psychosis. Now, a person actually believing himself to be Jesus, God, or to possess superhuman powers is considered mentally ill. There is a big big difference and every judge, police officer, qualified psychiatrist, medical doctor, etc. knows the difference. Why would a person who believes in nothing, living for no reason at all, having no hope, and eventually dying and becoming nothing forever be any more less likely to have killed a child?

 

[Maikai]

If there were two, it's possible one was psychopath, and the other duped into the crime----perhaps was the one that wrote the note, to insure he/she keeps his/her mouth shut. Two together might have made a dangerous combination--alone neither one may have had the guts to carry out a plan. The brutality of the murder shows someone that was not a stranger to violence---and he chose as his target a completely innocent and vulnerable child. This is not the act of loving parents with history whatsover of anything in their past that could even hint that they were capable of this type of crime--let alone have the knowledge of making a garrote, or had the knowledge of the movie lines used in the note. The parents and Burke are innocent. I don't discount a drug addiction--something like methamphetamine---that came into play. A kidnapping gone bad by amateurs isn't out of the realm of possibilities.

 

[BrotherMoon]

Not trying to cause any sort of argument, but I have never heard of, or read a word that belief in God,salvation, in life after death, heaven, and God's being in charge is in any way considered a mental illness or a symptom of psychosis.

Riiiiiiigggghhhttt. And those guys that flew into the World Trade Center and the Pentagon were sane. Your post makes me :sick: .

 

[ICU]

Oh yes it does! Please investigate the symptoms of severe head concussion readily available on the net. One of them is "mild to violent convulsions". It doesn't matter if convulsions are caused by lack of air from strangulation, or by head trauma, BOTH methods cause petechial hemorrhaging. When people die of convulsions, they are actually suffocating to death because they can't catch their breath.

You wrote:
BOTH methods cause petechial hemorrhaging. When people die of convulsions, they are actually suffocating to death.

Suffocating to death is the key word, petechial hemorrhaging, is the lack of oxygen, It has been recently discovered that convulsions cause petechial hemorrhaging when the person dies from it, that is why it will cause confusions in the reports, was the person suffocated with a pillow or convulsions, the epileptic person is a risk. But JonBenet was being strangled, I think that is what really caused the death and the petechial hemorrhaging, and yes there was the head impact. I value your response and in no way am I trying to sound like a know it all, I have a lot to learn, at the time I’m studying Geographic Profiling and hope to gain more knowledge in this area of study.


_______________
IMO

 

[ICU]

Peek-a-boo, ICU (sorry, I couldn't resist that),

Autoerotic asphyxiation (AEA) is solo masturbation. Erotic asphyxiation (EA) is masturbation using a partner.

In EA the partner masturbates the subject and simultaneously controls the ligature that temporarily asphyxiates the subject to maximize the orgasm. The subject's arms are usually tied overhead to keep him/her from involuntarily ripping off the ligature before the orgasm is complete because the body senses danger and wants to breathe no matter what. In EA the life of the subject is literally in the hands of the partner.

IMO the device wrapped around JonBenet's neck was designed for EA.

JMO

You wrote:
Peek-a-boo, ICU (sorry, I couldn't resist that)

That is exactly what I was thinking of when I selected the ICU user, “I SEE YOU”, wouldn’t it bee nice to say to the killer, “I SEE YOU”, “I know what you did and I know Whom you are and you will not get away with it”.

O.K. if what you say about the EA is true, then I would assume that she would have been sexually assaulted, in the manner that a partner would do it, it is similar to AEA where it intensifies sensations. That's because the lack of blood flow and oxygen can produce giddiness, lightheadedness, or exhilaration. It sounds like the one being strangled will experience the rush, so what’s in it for the perp? Remember she was found with her cloths still on, do you suppose it was the knots that had the perp excited, ligature knots are the perp’s high, similar to shoes fetish. What is you thoughts on that?



_______________
IMO

 

[ICU]

If there were two, it's possible one was psychopath, and the other duped into the crime----perhaps was the one that wrote the note, to insure he/she keeps his/her mouth shut. Two together might have made a dangerous combination--alone neither one may have had the guts to carry out a plan. The brutality of the murder shows someone that was not a stranger to violence---and he chose as his target a completely innocent and vulnerable child. This is not the act of loving parents with history whatsover of anything in their past that could even hint that they were capable of this type of crime--let alone have the knowledge of making a garrote, or had the knowledge of the movie lines used in the note. The parents and Burke are innocent. I don't discount a drug addiction--something like methamphetamine---that came into play. A kidnapping gone bad by amateurs isn't out of the realm of possibilities.

Maikai, Thanks for reading my opinion on the case.
I have asked questions about the bipolar disorder, and got no answer.
One of the symptoms are Grandiose delusions. Individuals imagine that they have special connections with God, celebrities, or political leaders.
Another symptom is Sudden irritability or rage, particularly when grandiose plans are thwarted.
Just the tip of the iceberg, so I was wondering if a person with this illness will kill, I remember reading about Joan Crawford’s rage with a wire cloths hanger on her daughter, She was bipolar, so you can’t rule anyone out. Until you are 100% sure not 99.9%. That is why you have to take this apart and look at it under a microscope.



_______________
IMO

 

[ICU]

It was reported that the Ramsey's security system was not operating at the time of the murder.
This man is rich, although this was not a high crime area, but necessary to have security systems installed. How long was the security system not operating? Why have one if you are not going to keep it working properly? Did they look into the people whom installed the system? I used to work for security a few years back, and I know that the people are not screened for that job, just look at what they found at the airport, all sorts of criminals working the security systems. This is just a thought. Can anyone tell me if they did a check on the security system personal. Do not speculate on an answer, really know for sure. Now as for the knots found around JonBenet wrist, I could only see from the autopsy photos one hand tied, so for EA to be done, do both hands have to be tied? If they were then why was the left hand free? Do you suppose the perp took the time to untie just one hand and if he did, Why?

 

[Toltec]

my first thought was intensive care unit...tee hee!

i've said it once and i'll say it again...intruders don't stay long enough to stage a crime. Why would this intruder who bashed JonBenet's head, strangled and molested her suddenly feel remorse and gently wrap her in a blanket as John put it "cocoon style"?

Why would this animal suddenly feel any sympathy after doing what he/she did to this precious little girl?

 

[ICU]

my first thought was intensive care unit...tee hee!

i've said it once and i'll say it again...intruders don't stay long enough to stage a crime. Why would this intruder who bashed JonBenet's head, strangled and molested her suddenly feel remorse and gently wrap her in a blanket as John put it "cocoon style"?

Why would this animal suddenly feel any sympathy after doing what he/she did to this precious little girl?

Toltec in my earlier writings I said, to understand the criminal you have to think like one, it is a dangerous trip because it makes you feel strange, example just imagine you are nine years old, you are a little boy, your parents put you and your little six year old sister to bed, you are waiting for Christmas morning to wake up and open your gifts under the tree, this is odd but imagine you wake up and decided to play a game with your sister whom is sleeping in the next room, you go in and wake her and say hey lets play cowboys and Indians, what do you think your sister is going to say, most likely hey burke leave me alone I’m tired. So burke decides he wants to play so he ties a rope around his sisters neck and puts tape on her mouth and ties a rope around her wrist and starts to drag her to the basement, now with the one hand not tied, she might remove the tape and start yelling for her mother, and might even put up a fight with her brother, so how does her brother kill her? Why is he the one some people think did it? He would have to be a very angry boy at nine years of age, he would have to be able to carry his sister to the basement, then he would have to have ligature ready to put around her neck, know about a double knot that will act as a noose, so it will tighten when he pulled it, he would have the mind to loop the end of the ligature around the paint brush handle, why? Who knows? Now he is ready to be rough with her, she is struggling with him and the rope, she may even start kicking him, so the little boy would push her down and kick her in the head, assuming he is wearing heavy boots to cause a crack in her head. causing her to be dazed. Then he would wrap a blanket around her so she could not kick him any more, then he would start pulling on the rope and watching her struggle for air, all this time he is cool and in control, she goes unconscious, the rope is not undone and in a few seconds she dies, so the boy, leaves her in the basement, goes back to bed as if nothing ever happened. Does that sound like a lot of horse s**t? Absolutely.

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IMO

 

[Brefie]

Of course.....that's why people suggest that a lot of what was found was 'staged'.

 

[Shylock]

It was reported that the Ramsey's security system was not operating at the time of the murder.
This man is rich, although this was not a high crime area, but necessary to have security systems installed. How long was the security system not operating? Why have one if you are not going to keep it working properly?

After JonBenet's death, when they had moved to the Atlanta area, John Ramsey was assaulted by another intruder who entered their house during the day. The security system was not turned on this time either.
It appears neither Ramsey has enough brains to turn on a security system. Or else neither developed a fear of intruders after JonBenet's death simply because there was no intruder.

 

[BlueCrab]

You wrote:
Peek-a-boo, ICU (sorry, I couldn't resist that)

That is exactly what I was thinking of when I selected the ICU user, ?I SEE YOU?, wouldn?t it bee nice to say to the killer, ?I SEE YOU?, ?I know what you did and I know Whom you are and you will not get away with it?.

O.K. if what you say about the EA is true, then I would assume that she would have been sexually assaulted, in the manner that a partner would do it, it is similar to AEA where it intensifies sensations. That's because the lack of blood flow and oxygen can produce giddiness, lightheadedness, or exhilaration. It sounds like the one being strangled will experience the rush, so what?s in it for the perp? Remember she was found with her cloths still on, do you suppose it was the knots that had the perp excited, ligature knots are the perp?s high, similar to shoes fetish. What is you thoughts on that?



_______________
IMO

ICU, the only way I can answer that question is to say that, in sex, gratification can be obtained by pleasuring the partner. Of course, there could be other motivations, both good and evil.

JMO

 

[Shylock]

But JonBenet was being strangled, I think that is what really caused the death and the , and yes there was the head impact.

There is something else you will need to consider. Dr. Spitz believes he sees evidence of a prior strangulation. He suggests it might have been by the collar on her shirt. So you now have THREE possible sources for the petechial hemorrhaging:
1) Strangulation by the garrote cord.
2) Strangulation by the collar or some other means not yet identified.
3) Suffocation due to convulsions caused by the head blow.

Now add into the equation that there was absolutely NO damage to the internal organs in her neck under the cord or to her tongue, AND the fact that the deep red color caused by the cord was localized ONLY under the cord (an important indicator of post-mortem bruising). Both are facts that point to the cord being applied after she was already dead to hide whatever really happened to her.

 

[Maikai]

paraonoid schizophrenics are the most likely to be involved in violent crimes, and this is borne out in studies of the prison population. So, if there is a mental illness involved, I'd look for the paranoid shizo....and many of them can be high-functioning. An addict that used say methamphetamine is what I suspect. They would have a feeling of omnipotence while high....and they could be prone to violent outbursts when coming down. I think that could explain the unexplainable in the crime, such as the ransom note...the risk of entering the home...the impulsive murder (at least that's the way it appears to me). University Hill was experiencing a rise in crime due primarily to drug usage in the area---if you look at the surrounding environment and what was going on, a druggie is a good suspect. Transients had moved to the Hill area, after being kicked off of Pearl Street---and there were fights and violent crimes several times a week. Stun guns and bats were becoming weapons of choice in the area.

The Ramseys explained the alarm system, and why they didn't use it. It was obsolete, and the kids had set it off in the past, and it made a very loud noise. They thought they were in a safe neighborhood, their guard was down. Many people have alarm systems and don't use them. I think it was a real tragedy that so much money was spent on the house remodelling it, and so little consideration given to security---basement windows are prime places of intruder entry-----and at least one grate was not even secured to the ground. If someone saw a broken window, they would know that window was not armed.

 

[Shylock]

The Ramseys explained the alarm system, and why they didn't use it. It was obsolete, and the kids had set it off in the past, and it made a very loud noise. They thought they were in a safe neighborhood, their guard was down. Many people have alarm systems and don't use them.

Oh really Maikai? And what was their excuse for not using the alarm system in their newly remodeled house in Vinings?

 

[ICU]

After JonBenet's death, when they had moved to the Atlanta area, John Ramsey was assaulted by another intruder who entered their house during the day. The security system was not turned on this time either.
It appears neither Ramsey has enough brains to turn on a security system. Or else neither developed a fear of intruders after JonBenet's death simply because there was no intruder.

Now that is a good thought, what the heck is the matter with that guy? You know that even Lizzy Borden had her new house heavily secured with bars in the windows and double locks on the door, strange huh? Considering that she did the killing, even if it was to make people believe that she was telling the truth about not being the killer, again what is the matter with John Ramsey?

_______________
IMO

 

[Barbara]

Oh really Maikai? And what was their excuse for not using the alarm system in their newly remodeled house in Vinings?

Or their excuse for seemingly NEVER using their alarms in prior homes. I do believe they were burglarized several times over the years, possibly once or twice BEFORE the murder, but I'm not positive.

ICU,

The problem (as I see it) is that you keep referring to thinking like a "criminal". For those of us who believe the Ramsey family is involved with this murder and know what happened that night, the vast majority of those theorists DO NOT believe this was a premeditated "criminal mind" at work. The vast majority believe that whichever member of the family is responsible, it was spontaneous, whether accidental or not.

If you find yourself thinking like a "criminal" you will find that the murder doesn't make sense to a criminal. It lacks all the stereotypical aspects of a practiced criminal. A real criminal would NEVER leave a note, especially handwritten at a crime scene when there is a murder and the body is left behind. A real criminal wouldn't make sure that there is no real hard evidence they were there AND THEN LEAVE A HANDWRITTEN NOTE.

 

[ICU]

Or their excuse for seemingly NEVER using their alarms in prior homes. I do believe they were burglarized several times over the years, possibly once or twice BEFORE the murder, but I'm not positive.

ICU,

The problem (as I see it) is that you keep referring to thinking like a "criminal". For those of us who believe the Ramsey family is involved with this murder and know what happened that night, the vast majority of those theorists DO NOT believe this was a premeditated "criminal mind" at work. The vast majority believe that whichever member of the family is responsible, it was spontaneous, whether accidental or not.

If you find yourself thinking like a "criminal" you will find that the murder doesn't make sense to a criminal. It lacks all the stereotypical aspects of a practiced criminal. A real criminal would NEVER leave a note, especially handwritten at a crime scene when there is a murder and the body is left behind. A real criminal wouldn't make sure that there is no real hard evidence they were there AND THEN LEAVE A HANDWRITTEN NOTE.

Hi Barbara,
You said that “you will find that the murder doesn't make sense to a criminal”. Why would it not make sense to a criminal? His way of thinking is different than ours, we would never think that what he does makes sense, so how can we say it would not make sense to a criminal?

You said “the vast majority of those theorists DO NOT believe this was a premeditated "criminal mind" at work” They have been wrong many times before, I do not like to follow the majority, they cloud the mind with a lot of misinformation.

You said “The vast majority believe that whichever member of the family is responsible, it was spontaneous, whether accidental or not.” Spontaneous that is a curious word, can you think of anything that might result in that kind of spontaneous or accidental result in the death of the child? What do you think was going on? Do you have any concrete evidence that anyone in the family was that unstable?

You said “A real criminal would NEVER leave a note” never say NEVER.

You said “A real criminal wouldn't make sure that there is no real hard evidence they were there AND THEN LEAVE A HANDWRITTEN NOTE” Barbara no one is perfect, criminals almost always make mistakes, and I’m sure that if the family did it, and it was the first time for them, there would be a lot of mistakes.

Barbara I know that I have written a lot here and some may be lost in volume, but the question I would like for you to help me with is, where did that blanket found wrapped around the child, come from? why was it in the basement? where was that blanket before it was discovered in the basement? What do you think it was intended for originally in the murder? The blanket wrapped around the child seems odd.

_______________
IMO