This is the truth!

[Britt]

They got an attorney right away......and at least one lead detective didn't like it.....and took the law into his own hands, and was determined to find guilt, once he made his mind up that it was the parents.

How exactly did this rogue detective take the law into his own hands? I, for one, would be interested in seeing your proof of this. Did he tamper with evidence, threaten witnesses? What, exactly?

 

[Barbara]

How exactly did this rogue detective take the law into his own hands? I, for one, would be interested in seeing your proof of this. Did he tamper with evidence, threaten witnesses? What, exactly?

Isn't it interesting that the "other" detective Lou Smit, decided that the parents DID NOT do it and took the law into his own hands, stealing evidence for his own presentation and then having to make a "deal" to cover the *advertiser censored* of the DA in order for him to keep the evidence he HAD NO RIGHT TO TAKE! Had Hunter not been corrupt and needed Smit to keep his secrets, Smit would have had to give it back.

How convenient that it gets left out of conversation.

 

[Show Me]

It wasn't long before it was known the people the Ramseys turned to for help (BPD) in the very early hours had also made mistakes in those crucial early hours. Hiring of experts was not done to counter the police, but to help them. The experts were offered to the BPD on a silver platter. JR as a CEO relied on experts in various fields in his business. Why should this have been any different? They had no clue how they were suppose to act, and were in no condition to make their own decisions.

Well Maikai...when the Ramseys are awaiting the Grand Jury decision John himself tells Patsy: (DOI, paperback edition, page 331)

"You need to recognize what's happening," I explained further. "The number one job of our attorneys and investigators has always been to keep the two of us out of jail." My words had a cold, hard ring."
-------
Doesn't sound to me like John is trying to aid the police. The number one job of the RST has ALWAYS been to keep the Ramseys out of jail....whoa not look for JonBenet's killer. Maybe JonBenet rates as the number two job?

 

[Britt]

OMG, OJ's GUILTY!!!!?????

lol... Oh Barbara, don't be silly. Prior to 6/12/94, OJ Simpson was living the American Dream. He was rich, successful and handsome. He had lots of friends, a wonderful girlfriend, and was a great father. He was an attentive family man and a dependable ex-husband. He was a popular and well-loved sports hero. Life just doesn't get any better than that! The man was damn near perfect. No one has a life with few blemishes (just ignore the evidence of prior abuse!) and all of a sudden become a sadistic killer of a beloved ex-wife! It doesn't happen. What changed? OJ was obviously railroaded. Those cops never liked him and were out to get him from the get-go, dontcha know!

 

[Shawna]

Or that you all believe JonBenet's face appeared on a door as some sort of sign to you?

Jonbenet's face appeared on Mickie's closet door along with Beth's. There was a thread about it on Purgatory if I remember correctly.

 

[jat]

I see you wearing one of those t-shirts with an arrow pointing up and the words "I'm with stupid" on it.

Folks, maybe this will be moved to the parking lot, but comments like these really bring the credibility and intellect of the site down. It just isn't necessary.

 

[tezi]

Wrong again Maikai. The hiring of experts was to keep them out of prison. They themselves have admitted that. They were in no condition to make their own decisions, yet they made the decision to appear on LKL. They state to this day that they spoke with police, etc AGAINST THEIR LAWYER'S ADVICE. So how very convenient that they make very selective decisions when it is to their advantage, but not for JonBenet's advantage. :boohoo:

AND THEY SHOULD HAVE BEEN IN A CONDITION! No excuses. There are no other parents of murder victims who drugged and drank themselves into a condition that prevented them from talking to police! Find me any parent of a murder victim who claimed to be "in no condition" to speak with police. And to top it off, were in a condition to go on national tv and to arrange a photo op at their own child's memorial service. :sick:

What a load of !

Amen Barbara! Thanks for pointing out how they drank and drugged themselves so that they couldn't talk to the police.

Yes, the police were at the Stine's. But let's not forget that Patsy was doped up on valium and John was drunk and on valium. :boohoo: Also, don't forget that when John kept saying he was sorry, the good Dr. Beuf and someone else (whose name has slipped my mind, maybe John's brother Jeff) took John for a walk....Geez, I wonder what was said on that walk away from the police's prying ears????? :banghead:

Again, wonderful points as usual Barbara!:clap:

 

[vicktor]

-------
the number one job of the RST has ALWAYS been to keep the Ramseys out of jail....whoa not look for JonBenet's killer. Maybe JonBenet rates as the number two job?

Some time after the crime, the private investigators came up with who might be the best suspect and gave that to the BPD. Along with him the BPD found a tip that had been called in on him by a friend of his in the months after the crime, that they had not followed up on. If this person had left his DNA at the scene the case would have been solved.

 

[Britt]

Some time after the crime, the private investigators came up with who might be the best suspect and gave that to the BPD. Along with him the BPD found a tip that had been called in on him by a friend of his in the months after the crime, that they had not followed up on. If this person had left his DNA at the scene the case would have been solved.

Gary Oliva, I presume? What made him a "best suspect"? Not exactly a close bud of the Ramseys, was he? How did he know so much about the family? How did he get access to JonBenet to have inflicted the prior abuse within the three days or so prior to her death?

 

[Amraann]

Jat...... Exactly!

I would like to remind everyone that WS encourages all POV's.
Some replies here were more about attacking Maikia and less about debating the actual topic and differing views therof.
I respectfully request that everyone be permitted to debate their ideas on this subject without threat of being attacked personally.
Thank you for your attention

Amra

 

[Show Me]

Some time after the crime, the private investigators came up with who might be the best suspect and gave that to the BPD. Along with him the BPD found a tip that had been called in on him by a friend of his in the months after the crime, that they had not followed up on. If this person had left his DNA at the scene the case would have been solved.

If the person had left his DNA at the scene? How can a person not leave some DNA at the crime scene?

Besides didn't John tell us in DOI, the number one job of his attorneys and investigators was to keep the two of them out of jail? So what does that have to do with a DNA-less suspect?

 

[vicktor]

Gary Oliva, I presume? What made him a "best suspect"? Not exactly a close bud of the Ramseys, was he? How did he know so much about the family? How did he get access to JonBenet to have inflicted the prior abuse within the three days or so prior to her death?

1. yes
2.There are several of my posts during the last 2-3 weeks describing this, check those out.
3. no, his connection was geographic
3a. the reference to $118,000, fatcat, and good southern common sense? He could have found an old check stub by going through a couple of drawers in John's desk; he seemed to have a pretty good vocabulary and may have heard the word 'fatcat' and remembered the meaning; maybe he had read something about John, saw something in the house about the south etc.
4. He didn't. Lots of differing opinions about that.

 

[Show Me]

If Olivia was going thru the desks looking for checkstubs, where's all the DNA, hair, fingerprint evidence?

 

[vicktor]

If the person had left his DNA at the scene? How can a person not leave some DNA at the crime scene?

Besides didn't John tell us in DOI, the number one job of his attorneys and investigators was to keep the two of them out of jail? So what does that have to do with a DNA-less suspect?

Criminals break into houses all the time and do burglaries assaults murders etc. where they don't leave DNA that is recovered by LE. If they aren't cut or scratched and don't commit rape, there probably won't be any DNA recovered by LE. If you are asking the theoretical question about someone leaving their presense, then yes, they probably would leave 1-2 hairs somewhere, and might slough off some dead skin cells as they brushed by a doorway. The point is that LE can't begin to vacuum the whole house, test every surface and identify every hair found. That applies to the crime scene also.

2. O.K. I get you... Oliva was first identified by the PI's , then checked out by the BPD and given a DNA test. They were working offensively to find suspects that might solve the crime. IMO, Oliva is the best suspect,yet his DNA was found not to match. The conclusion is that the DNA isn't revelant. The contention is that the Ramsey PI's would have solved the crime by identifying Oliva, had the Ramsey's and the DA's conjecture about the DNA been true. IOW, if Oliva HAD left DNA then the PI's would have solved the case.

 

[Ivy]

Even if Oliva knew the Rs had a dog and that it was a bichon frise and not a rotweiller, how would he have known that Jacque had been taken to the neighbors' and wouldn't be at the Rs' to give his presence away by yapping and behaving as most bichons would at seeing a stranger? What if Jacque usually slept in JonBenet's room?

Oliva didn't kill JonBenet, but he makes a handy scapegoat for those who can't accept that one of the three Ramseys did.

imo

 

[Ivy]

In DOI John writes: (page 8, hardback)

...Patsy wanted to drop of a couple of gifts on our way home from the Whites'. We pulled up the driveway at the Walkers' and Patsy took a small package to the door, talked for a few minutes and returned to the car. Then we drove a few blocks to the Stines' house. Patsy had bid on three gift baskets at a recent silent auction benefit, she and Burke took one of the packages to their door. We had another basket in the trunk of the car intended for our friends the Fernies', but we decided it was to late now to make any more visits. We would deliver their gift when we returned from Michigan.

NE Book Page 49:

Tom Trujillo: "Was she [JonBenet] awake at all when you were over at the Stines' house?

Patsy Ramsey: "Uh, well, I just went to the door. We didn't all go in. I just went to the door... and gave them a basket of something... for a Christmas present or something. We were going, I remember, cause I had a big basket in the car to take to the Fernies, but since JonBenet had fallen asleep and it was getting kind of late.. I think we just decided not to go to the Fernies."

1998 Tracey Documentary:

Susan Stine: "They came to our house and I talked to Patsy for awhile maybe 10 or 15 minutes and they all seemed perfectly normal. They were all the same - bubbly about Christmas and about where they were going and we, my husband and I, waved good-bye to them as they were leaving and that was the last time we saw them as an intact family."

So, Did Patsy go to the Stines' door alone, or did Burke go with her? If Patsy and Susan visited for 10 to 15 minutes and Burke had gone with her to the door, what did Burke do...just stand there while the women chatted? Or did he go inside and visit with his pal Doug Stine? Was JonBenet awake while the Rs were parked at the Stines?

Most of us remember that John and Patsy claimed that JonBenet was asleep when they arrived home and was carried upstairs, but that Burke said JonBenet actually carried a Christmas present into the house walked upstairs to bed on her own.

Why all the discrepancies? (As most of us know, what I posted here is just the tip of the iceberg.)

imo

 

[Blazeboy3]

Since when does the American dream include cancer, divorce, infidelity, the death of one child and the sexual exploitation of another? It only appears they were living the American Dream to those that are not. Success isn't measured by the square footage of one's home or how many toys are in the garage. It's measured by the interpersonal relationships to those around us. They were failing weither the death was an accident they couldn't handle or the reaction of an intruder.

John was emotionally bankrupt from the death of Beth and Patsy wasn't the hormonally intact and balanced woman she had been due to cancer treatments.

IMHO...my American dream doesn't include such things as cancer, divorce, infidelity, death of one/any child, sexual exploitation of any type, etc. IMHO the R's were living the life they wanted to live regardless of "any consequences," OR the R's were prepared to "suffer the consequences" ... i.e., sue all/any--make lots of money in Burke's name "AND" be KNOWN TO ALL regardless of WHO/WHAT/WHEN/WHERE/WHY AND HOW!!!

 

[Blazeboy3]

Jat...... Exactly!

I would like to remind everyone that WS encourages all POV's.
Some replies here were more about attacking Maikia and less about debating the actual topic and differing views therof.
I respectfully request that everyone be permitted to debate their ideas on this subject without threat of being attacked personally.
Thank you for your attention

Amra

Amen/ditto that thought! IMHO we are here to share/vent but not attack each other IMHO!
On that note...anyone want to SHARE our "weather" (stormy that is +/sum LOL)

 

[Blazeboy3]

In DOI John writes: (page 8, hardback)

...Patsy wanted to drop of a couple of gifts on our way home from the Whites'. We pulled up the driveway at the Walkers' and Patsy took a small package to the door, talked for a few minutes and returned to the car. Then we drove a few blocks to the Stines' house. Patsy had bid on three gift baskets at a recent silent auction benefit, she and Burke took one of the packages to their door. We had another basket in the trunk of the car intended for our friends the Fernies', but we decided it was to late now to make any more visits. We would deliver their gift when we returned from Michigan.

NE Book Page 49:

Tom Trujillo: "Was she [JonBenet] awake at all when you were over at the Stines' house?

Patsy Ramsey: "Uh, well, I just went to the door. We didn't all go in. I just went to the door... and gave them a basket of something... for a Christmas present or something. We were going, I remember, cause I had a big basket in the car to take to the Fernies, but since JonBenet had fallen asleep and it was getting kind of late.. I think we just decided not to go to the Fernies."

1998 Tracey Documentary:

Susan Stine: "They came to our house and I talked to Patsy for awhile maybe 10 or 15 minutes and they all seemed perfectly normal. They were all the same - bubbly about Christmas and about where they were going and we, my husband and I, waved good-bye to them as they were leaving and that was the last time we saw them as an intact family."

So, Did Patsy go to the Stines' door alone, or did Burke go with her? If Patsy and Susan visited for 10 to 15 minutes and Burke had gone with her to the door, what did Burke do...just stand there while the women chatted? Or did he go inside and visit with his pal Doug Stine? Was JonBenet awake while the Rs were parked at the Stines?

Most of us remember that John and Patsy claimed that JonBenet was asleep when they arrived home and was carried upstairs, but that Burke said JonBenet actually carried a Christmas present into the house walked upstairs to bed on her own.

Why all the discrepancies? (As most of us know, what I posted here is just the tip of the iceberg.)

imo

IMHO this is not what really happened and therefore doesn't really make any sense...just my opinion. I believe more (much more) went on that night which included the Stines and it's a "secret." I would do "cartwheels" if they were (Stine's) related to the author R.L.Stine (I'm pushing 46 LOL)... see/seek...
http://www.bookfinder.us/review7/0671529544.html
Forbidden Secrets
Stine R. L Book Review
AUTHOR: Stine, R. L.
From the Publisher
The dark poweer of the Fear family consumes all those connected with it. No one can escape the evil of the family's curse — not even the Fears themselves. Savannah Gentry doesn't believe that. She marries Tyler Fear. But then she goes with him to Blackrose Manor. That's when the deaths begin. That's when she learns his terrible secret.

 

[Show Me]

Ok Vicktor I understand your point...thank you.

Ivy....the Rams change their stories so much I can never keep up with the latest 'truth'. Excellent find.