Thomas and Hunter Speak

Discussion in 'JonBenet Ramsey' started by RiverRat, Dec 26, 2006.

  1. RiverRat

    RiverRat Patsy Ramsey to the Left

    Messages:
    2,909
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The Thomas factor

    Hunter has probably had no stronger critic through his tenure on the case than former Boulder police Detective Steve Thomas.

    Thomas, who resigned from the department in summer 1998, has left law enforcement and is building houses with a friend in Australia.

    When Thomas resigned, he did so with a blistering eight-page letter in which he put the lack of charges in the case squarely on Hunter's doorstep, accusing the prosecutor and his staff of impeding justice.

    Several newspaper editorials echoed Thomas's critique, Hunter recalled, and "cut me below the bellybutton, and side to side."

    Thomas wrote a book, published in 2000, in which he underscored his contempt for Hunter's approach to the case and the judicial system.

    Hunter, who remembers the Thomas broadsides as "one of the bumps for me in the case," is restrained in talking about them now.

    "I think he did what he thought he should do," he said. "He thought he should write a book. I don't think he should have written a book with case file information. I don't think that's something he should have done . . . because these are case-confidential files, and they, to disclose them, can prejudice a case."

    Thomas, in an e-mail sent this weekend from Australia, said he doesn't regret writing a book "after it became painfully evident that there was never going to be a filing in this case." He called Hunter's criticism "disingenuous."

    The former detective said that Hunter "hosted the Globe tabloid in his office on a fairly regular basis, for example, talking about the case file information to which he refers."

    Hunter insists that he never discussed anything of evidentiary value with a tabloid reporter.

    Thomas added that he has no doubt Hunter wished for "a proper resolution to this case."

    "These cases don't solve themselves, and we just had different ideologies about how hard to push the agenda and pursue the matter properly," he said. "It is unfortunate that his legacy will reflect an absence of duty in this case."

    The trouble with statistics

    Thomas' book made clear his belief that Patsy Ramsey was responsible for the murder, and attributes that belief to others in his department, up to and including Boulder Police Chief Mark Beckner, when Beckner was the detective bureau commander.

    Hunter chooses his words carefully in discussing the Ramseys.

    "I never saw anything in this investigation that indicated to me they were bad people," he said. "There was no history of abuse, nothing to support (that) this wasn't a loved child, in the evidence that I saw."

    Hunter has high praise for former Boulder police chief Tom Koby, but believes that some in Koby's department were overly influenced by FBI profilers, who stressed the likelihood of a family member's involvement in JonBenet's death.

    Hunter feels much of the same frustration as others who have watched the case unfold, then unravel, yielding only enduring questions without answers.

    Still, he said, "It was a good ride. A good play. I have zero anger at anybody involved in it - even Thomas. And, I'm grateful for that, too, because I think anger can eat us to death.

    "And that's sort of where it is."

    http://www.rockymountainnews.com/dr...5237612,00.html
     
  2. Loading...


  3. Chrishope

    Chrishope New Member

    Messages:
    1,878
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I have more confidence in the FBI than in Hunter.
     
  4. Nuisanceposter

    Nuisanceposter Remembering Little Miss Christmas

    Messages:
    1,399
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Hunter is a liar...never discussed anything of evidentiary value with a tab reporter....bullcrap.

    "I never saw anything in this investigation that indicated to me they were bad people," he said. "There was no history of abuse, nothing to support (that) this wasn't a loved child, in the evidence that I saw."

    But did you find any evidence indicating one of the Rs killed their daughter unintentionally and covered it all up?
     
  5. coloradokares

    coloradokares New Member

    Messages:
    1,391
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Exactly and don't tell me there was no history of abuse with the bathroom yelling sessions. At least by todays standards those screaming sessions if true would clearly be labled abuse. If he saw no history then he was not speaking to the right people regarding the Mega JonBenet thing either. Hunter I think is at the place where he has know Boulder and Colorado and indeed the nation is not pleased with the handling of the JonBenet case. He has to know that.
     
  6. Show Me

    Show Me New Member

    Messages:
    3,868
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Hunter chooses his words carefully in discussing the Ramseys.

    "I never saw anything in this investigation that indicated to me they were bad people," he said. "There was no history of abuse, nothing to support (that) this wasn't a loved child, in the evidence that I saw."


    Ohhhhhhhhh Okayyyyy.....John and Patsy made a good first impression on alex hunter and HE has decided for this alone................ta dah!...makes John and Patsy NOT guilty.

    Hey...lots of people said Susan Smith was a VERY GOOD MOTHER WHO LOVED HER CHILDREN!

    Hunter was sooooo confident he didn't go after the PHONE records until too late when one of the cell phone records went missing! Ramsey lawyers claimed it was a matter of Privacy.

    Let's see....kidnappers are to PHONE you and you can't release your phone records 'cause of privacy invasion! Might compromise your Privacy and heck there is surely no evidence in the phone calls so why let the police have the records? Surely no hang up calls or soliciting phone calls will turn out to be a monitoring kidnapping pedophiliac foreign faction that brutally murdered your beloved daughter???

    No wonder Thomas wrote the book and this is only one tiny little bitty bit of what Hunter did to cover his butt and not to run into conflict with a former business buddy lawyer who represented the Ramseys.
     
  7. LinasK

    LinasK Verified insider- Mark Dribin case

    Messages:
    24,159
    Likes Received:
    18
    Trophy Points:
    0
    What an A**! He's only worried about how the criticism hurt HIM!
    Excuse me! NO evidence of abuse. I call the pageantry child abuse. I call dying a 6-year-olds hair abuse. I call making her wear red lipstick at age 6 abuse! Posing like a grown woman with suggestive moves and costumes is abuse! And just because he didn't witness any abuse, does NOT mean there was no abuse going on in the Ramsey household, or that there couldn't be a first time.
    That's their job. BPD was not overly influenced- he was underinfluenced, and overly influenced by the Ramseys!:mad:
    That's all little JonBenet meant to him- a good ride, a good play, not a little girl who couldn't get justice for herself and needed LE to do it for her!:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :furious: :behindbar
     
  8. julianne

    julianne Former Member

    Messages:
    1,810
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    "Screaming sessions" - Do you state this on what LHP said? If so, can someone provide a link to this? I don't recall her labeling them as yelling sessions or screaming sessions, but I could be wrong. IIRC, she stated that there were times that Patsy had yelled at JonBenet while in the bathroom. Link???
     
  9. julianne

    julianne Former Member

    Messages:
    1,810
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    That is simply your opnion, though....and I DO agree that the whole pageant world leaves a nasty taste in my mouth, and I would never parade my daughter around like that, and I think that the only reason little girls are made to participate is because the parent (usually the Mom) has serious acceptance issues and self esteem problems.....BUT....

    It's not abuse. Is it wrong? Yes. Does it teach little girls that they only have worth that is based on their looks? Yes. It's not abuse, and clearly cannot be used as evidence of abuse in this case, as wrong and sick as it is.
     
  10. coloradokares

    coloradokares New Member

    Messages:
    1,391
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I'll go you one better. Go read how LHP sued the Ramseys. Yelling Screaming ...call it what you wish. acandyrose.com Don't forget I LIVE where people talk about this murder and Patsy etc. as well JMHO I guess abuse isn't always having broken bones like Jason Midyette. Those bathroom sessions were a concern to LHP. If I heard it personally it'd be a flag up the pole for me. Nothing should ever have to be spoken to a child that can't be in a tone fit for hearing. Why resort to yelling?
     
  11. JMO8778

    JMO8778 ..at the beach!

    Messages:
    5,554
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0

    Agreed.I would have offered to take over and help out the frazzled mom for both their benefit,of course we don't know that she didn't at least offer to.
     
  12. coloradokares

    coloradokares New Member

    Messages:
    1,391
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I am sure from the kind of person that LHP came across as being that she did try. That is my opinion. I don't have information that could most definitely substantiate it. Patsy had a very high opinion of LHP which was apparent not only by the way she hired her away from Merry Maids. But that she was willing to help LHP out financially etc. LHP seemed totally shocked that she was named by them as a suspect. Like she just couldn't even fathom it.
     
  13. Show Me

    Show Me New Member

    Messages:
    3,868
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Wellllll Hunter was influenced by the Ramsey's lawyer.....the one Hunter was in business with!

    Is this a conflict? I think so.
     
  14. julianne

    julianne Former Member

    Messages:
    1,810
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Well, see that's where I get mixed up, because to me, there is a huge difference between LHP reportedly stating that there were times Patsy yelled or raised her voice to JonBenet while they were in the bathroom, and LHP reportedly stating that Patsy had regular "screaming sessions" in the bathroom with JonBenet.

    People talk about this case all over the world---sure, people talk about it in Colorado because it happened there, but it doesn't necessarily mean that what is said is any more true than what it said on forums or elsewhere. At this point in time, separating fact from fiction is difficult at best.

    I'd go one further to say that IF indeed, those "bathroom sessions" as you call it (because I've never heard LHP refer to it as that) was indeed as concerned as some state, then why didn't she report it? If she was so concerned and convinced that something dark and terrible was going on, WHY DIDN'T SHE REPORT IT????

    I agree that parents should never yell at their kids, and that it accomplishes nothing. But if a parent is going to tarred and feathered for yelling at their kid, you might as well lock up 95%, probably more, of the parents today---well, the parents who have kids over a certain age. If any parent in the world can say they raised their children for 18 years without ever once yelling at their kid, then they deserve a gold medal!!! I wish I could say the same, but as a parent of teenagers, I have yelled. If depends on the frequency of yelling, and more importantly, WHAT is being said. I think that for someone to say that yelling is the same as abuse is either an angel in disguise or simply has no children of their own to base reality on. I'd love to say I have never yelled at my teenager when he comes home an hour late from curfew, or when he is caught in a lie about doing his homework, but if I said that I would be a liar.
     
  15. JMO8778

    JMO8778 ..at the beach!

    Messages:
    5,554
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    yes,I thought she didn't pay her enough though,IMO.If I were wealthy and had a good housekeeper I could count on,I would have been more generous.I think she got a $200 Christmas bonus,when JR's was $118,000?(more than most ppl make in a yr).And she paid her $72/day, 3 days a week(I think I recall it was that).If I had good hired help,I think I'd pay them at least $40,000-$50,000 /yr,with a substantial C-mas bonus at the end of the yr.But maybe that's just me.
    Although I digress,it wasn't as bad as the Smarts paying Elizabeth's future kidnapper $5 for working on a roof for a few hrs.Talk about cheap labor...I think that's taking advantage of the homeless.I've often wondered if he felt they 'owed' him more and that's why he took Elizabeth.(NOT that it's right,of course !)
     
  16. coloradokares

    coloradokares New Member

    Messages:
    1,391
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    First off LHP did express concern on the bathroom sessions. Why didn't she report it prior. Who but LHP could give you the answer to that question. As for yelling at kids.....JonBenet was not a teenager. She was only 6 years old. For the most part John and Patsy did not reprimand Burke or JonBenet. I have that information from written accounts in newsarticles tabloids or from those who knew them. However regarding the bathroom conversations between Patsy and JonBenet disregard if you choose to . However that does not make it of less concern.

    I have spoken what I know to be the truth and from more than one source. You can believe it or discount it. It does not lessen the truth of it.
     
  17. JMO8778

    JMO8778 ..at the beach!

    Messages:
    5,554
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I agree.My guess is LHP thought there was nothing she could do about the yelling and screaming,and there probably wasn't,unless she saw actual bruises or anything.(and now we know that in the town of Boulder,not even then).
     
  18. julianne

    julianne Former Member

    Messages:
    1,810
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    You don't need to be on the offensive. I am not "discounting" what you are saying. I am not "disregarding" it---I am asking you to back up your statements with a link, that's all. Asking for reliable links to statements doesn't mean I am discounting what you are saying---it simply means that I can't read something written on a forum and then add it to my list of known facts regarding this case simply because someone posts it. Any wise sleuther will tell you that. I also don't take written accounts from tabloids (as you mention above) too seriously, I have to consider the journalistic integrity of the paper, i.e., The Globe, The Enquirer= Total JJ, or Journalistic Junk. Again, with articles from newspapers, one has to carefully weigh the actual facts of the case versus the opinion of the writer. So, as much one can rely on tabloids and newsarticles for their facts in the case, one has to apply research and skill to determine if those facts are indeed facts. Just because it's written doesn't make it so, and if it's written in a tabloid rag--you can pretty much guarantee it's wrought with inaccuracies.

    So, again, it is fine if you don't want to provide us with links to substantiate some of your statements---that's your choice. But there's really no reason to go on the offensive when you are asked to provide the links----we are not asking because we don't believe you.....it's something that is pretty much S.O.P. (standard operating procedure) with this case these days because so much incorrect (and correct) info has been posted....Look back through the posts on here and you will see time and time again where many people want links to support what is said. That's not, as you say, disregarding or discounting, it is good sleuthing.
     
  19. julianne

    julianne Former Member

    Messages:
    1,810
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Let's see---$50,000 a year, for 3 days a week, with a substantial Christmas bonus to be a MAID? That's pretty good---I know lots of people who are recent college graduates who are lucky to be making $30,000 - 35,000 on a full 40 hours, sometimes more. 50K is great for a job that doesn't require any real education or skills and is only part time----LOL, you're probably going to get interested applicants posting here on this forum after reading your post, LOL:D Shoot, I'd say sign me up, but I abhor cleaning LOL.
     
  20. coloradokares

    coloradokares New Member

    Messages:
    1,391
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    First off I am not on the defensive. I sent you to the sight where I know the trial issues between LHP against the Ramseys is covered and you return comment in requesting send a link. I did . I didn't seek out the exact link on a candyrose that would take you only to that information, although many times I may but I was in a hurry yesterday and honestly felt that to tell you where the information might be obtained was adequate. While it might as you suggest above require research and skill to sort.... I felt to send you there where LHP vs Ramsey is covered was a good head start in the right direction. Just so you know what to expect from me, there is only one link I will use in my whole repetoire of links that is tabloid and it was the enquirer. However I do consider the information in that article accurate solid and valuable. Will wonders never cease. I always say go ahead and discount it if you wish if the publication is a tabloid. Generally since I have followed this since before it was National news and only a kidnapping much of what seems new some who's interest in it came later on is what seems to be more common knowledge to those of us who have been interested since the beginning. That may sound like an excuse but its not.

    If you really want to get very technical any newspaper report or reporting on the investigation is either written or broadcast by a reporter unless your getting a direct quote from LE or the DA or seeing a live broadcast. Even some of the top crime reporting venues include the reporters views as its being reported. IE I have one well known crime reporter that is on my list right now. Not naming names but she got an e mail from me on her recent coverage.

    Some of this information that your requesting although I provided a link to information regarding this for your perusal is very common knowledge from reading the books as I suggested earlier and also I have found FFJ forums for justice of great value yet you suggested don't give me links that would include information from other forums. Which FFJ is. But FFJ has a wealth of information to which you can avail yourself. This is not being defensive in any way on my part. I am doing what I can to help you. What you will come to realize is much of what you want comes by spending and hours and hours of research and cross referencing and selectively collecting only that which you consider valid information and not heresay etc. Some of what I may give you by way of informations simply isn't going to have a link. Perhaps it was on television who remembers the date of report or from living in the Boulder Valley It comes from as I say private resources of people in the community who knew in one capacity or another the Ramseys and or other people who lived and worked in the Boulder community who were directly or indirectly in a postion to know various facts regarding the case. If I am quoting anything related to knowledge from these sources I will tell you. I will also tell you I will not breach the privacy of those resources. Actually I have been asked in the past to find a way to prove various facts that are known from living in Boulder as explained above. You don't keep friendships by breaching privacy. I choose to be on the forum they do not. Does not mean the information provided is less accurate.

    I think you will find we all will make every reasonable effort to answer your questions and back up our statements or information however some is basic and common knowledge. If you lack that please know that our response will often be to read what is available in credible resources. I guess the reason why is we simply don't know if you lack the knowledge or dispute its validity regardless of the credibility of the resources. When you ask for something be prepared then to wait for the information to be substantiated as well. It takes time to hunt particular links out from pages and pages of links . Sometimes we have the time to do so instantly other times you might wait a day or two. Not sure about anyone else but my life is crazy busy right now and shows no sign of letting up any time soon :bang: Hope this helps you understand my position a little bit. I am not one to be offensive or very defensive in any way. CK
     
  21. JMO8778

    JMO8778 ..at the beach!

    Messages:
    5,554
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Call me generous,but if I were wealthy enough to afford a good,hardworking maid(which does take skill, btw),I'd be very appreciative of them and I'd show it.And yes,I mean what I say..if I ever won the lottery or came into some money,I clean house is imprt to me,and I would consider a maid to be my right-hand,so I could have time to persue other things.I'd be more than happy to pay a good salary to that person.(What's 50K to a millionare anyway?)
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice