TN TN - Dennis Martin, 6, Great Smoky Mountains National Park, 14 June 1969

I'm not an outdoor type of girl but my husband is all about being outside. He regularly drags me to Cades Cove. The reason we go to Cades Cove is so he can see the deer, turkeys and bears. Cades Cove contains an 11 mile road where meadows are visible from you car and you're going to see deer. You will most likely see bears.

Animals: There's no doubt that a bear attack is possible. Wild boars could easily make an entire body disappear. Except the skull of an adult. Maybe the skull of a child but I've always been told that a boar can not open it's jaws enough to be able to crush and eat a skull. They say there are no wild cats left in the mountains around here, they're wrong. One article even mentioned panthers outright. That's an ongoing debate in this area and across the mountain in NC. I believe they're still around. Some people say panthers have never been in the area. I have no doubt that if a wild cat was involved, it would have been so swift that the boy wouldn't have had a chance to scream. If you've ever heard the horrifying scream of a wild cat, you know that could have been the scream heard after this poor little guy disappeared. Snakes are a possibility but what are the odds and where did the body go?

The river. I've never been to the location of this horrible event but I've been in the lower areas a lot. Every time I'm there, my husband and I discuss the river. He reminds me that it's the length that determines if a body of water is called a river. And I argue that it's a long creek. The Pigeon River is nothing compared to the Nolichuckey. But, with the rains described, there's a huge possibility that this boy was swept away. I can't imagine the water up there being deep enough for a body to be hidden under rocks but I could be wrong. I think he fell in, couldn't swim or walk/climb/crawl out. Maybe he hit his head or was otherwise injured and couldn't get out of the water. Then the rain came and washed his body away and trapped it or it washed up in under brush and couldn't be seen.

Stranger abduction is not out of the question. Not likely but could have happened. If you knew the area, you could pull it off, especially with a child who wasn't afraid of strangers.

The ginseng hunter. I don't think he was lying. I know several people who hunt seng. Our land boarders Cherokee National Forest. I know someone who is always in there during seng season and every time he is terrified of getting caught. It really surprises me that he does it at all because he is so scared of getting caught. I think he would report seeing something like that. Some of the other people who I know that do this, probably wouldn't report anything. They're felons looking to make money of the ginseng. They're not reporting anything to anyone. There are very strict rules on harvesting seng. The size of the root/plant is a huge deal apparently. I know people around here are very concerned with not getting caught, not doing it by the books. I also know that several hundred dollars can be made off one trip to the woods. In poor Appalachian places like this, a few hundred dollars a day can change your life if you're laid off from your factory job. Motivation to keep your mouth shut if you stumbled onto a skull? Maybe. Not for all but it would be for some. So, yes, I believe the ginseng hunter did find the child's skull and did not tell exactly for the reason he stated.

Getting lost in that area and never being seen again is very plausible to me. The sheer size of the forest, the water, the caves, the holes, the thick thick thick under brush and of course the animals...

And speaking of anomads and saying there's no way there wouldn't be some trace of him? What was the name of the little Chamberlain baby from Ayers Rock? "A dingo ate my baby." That portion of that child's clothes was recovered many years later in the den, wasn't it?
 
No reason for the hunter to make it up, I believe him.
 
The ginseng hunter's account makes SO much more sense now that you've stated the potential risk and reward.

There are many animals in that area that will gnaw on bones, but I did not know deer would. I wonder if they get nutrients from the bones or if they do it to sharpen their teeth or if there is some other reason...

Squirrels are the worst.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...dence-destroyed-animals-gnaw-human-bones.html


Mentions a giraffe here.

http://bone-lust.blogspot.com/2014/05/bonelust-science-lesson-bone-eating.html
 
Here's a link to a video of a bobcat screaming. That may well be the sound that was heard and thought to be Dennis. You'll need to turn the volume way up. Quite creepy. I can see how someone could mistake that for a person.

[video=youtube;MSyi9AK3gtw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSyi9AK3gtw[/video]
 
Foxes also sound like children screaming at times, and there are plenty in that area. I personally don't put too much weight in the scream and the stranger.
 
Does anyone know whatever became of the father, William? There's hardly any info on him after the search. I would assume he is around 75 yrs old so he may have already passed. TIA
 
Does anyone know whatever became of the father, William? There's hardly any info on him after the search. I would assume he is around 75 yrs old so he may have already passed. TIA

He passed away a few years ago.

Satch
 
Interesting write up on Dennis Martin's disappearance. So sad that he's never been found. I'll always wonder about the dude that came across human remains but was afraid to report them because he was out there doing something somewhat illegal, I can't remember what. But he eventually reported it and they couldn't find the remains, they were gone.

http://mysteriousuniverse.org/2017/...on-on-the-bizarre-vanishing-of-dennis-martin/
 
It's never been clear to me if this individual had actually found ginseng or was just searching for it the day he allegedly spotted what he thought was a child's remains. If he had found ginseng that day, he could have hidden it away and then alerted the authorities. If he had not, he could have just gone ahead and contacted them. Either way, I don't think he had to account for his presence or explain why he was at a national park that is open to anyone. I still wonder if he was so selfish to not report what he had seen and thought doing so would prohibit him from using the area for future ginseng searches, why did he eventually do so - particularly when it didn't make much difference those many years later?
I have to disagree with your line of reasoning, CK. A hillbilly who was making his living poaching ginseng would have wanted nothing to do with law enforcement. Reporting the find of a child's body would have brought him under scrutiny. If a drug dealer found a body while smuggling drugs over the border, do you think he'd contact the border patrol? Same scenario. I believe the story about the skeleton, and I'm not surprised that the man waited so long to report it. What surprises me is that he ever reported it unless he had given up poaching ginseng altogether.
 
I've listened to several videos now of a fox and a bobcat, and they do sound strange. Yet the sound is too low pitched to be a young child screaming, possibly could be mistaken for a woman though. IMO it probably was little Dennis the people heard screaming, I mean why would he not scream. :cry:
 
I've listened to several videos now of a fox and a bobcat, and they do sound strange. Yet the sound is too low pitched to be a young child screaming, possibly could be mistaken for a woman though. IMO it probably was little Dennis the people heard screaming, I mean why would he not scream. :cry:
The initial witness said that he heard a sickening scream, not necessarily a child's scream. A rabbit will scream when it is killed by an owl: that is most likely what the man heard. The evidence points to Dennis's having died of exposure or drownedin the vicinity of Tremont's Hollow.
 
I have to disagree with your line of reasoning, CK. A hillbilly who was making his living poaching ginseng would have wanted nothing to do with law enforcement. Reporting the find of a child's body would have brought him under scrutiny. If a drug dealer found a body while smuggling drugs over the border, do you think he'd contact the border patrol? Same scenario. I believe the story about the skeleton, and I'm not surprised that the man waited so long to report it. What surprises me is that he ever reported it unless he had given up poaching ginseng altogether.

I believe the hunter aswell. I just wish he hadn't waited for sooo long :(
I get why he would, though.
 
The initial witness said that he heard a sickening scream, not necessarily a child's scream. A rabbit will scream when it is killed by an owl: that is most likely what the man heard. The evidence points to Dennis's having died of exposure or drownedin the vicinity of Tremont's Hollow.

I don’t remember anything about evidence pointing to drowning or even him dying of exposure, but then I’m a little rusty on the details of this case. Do you have a link with that information? I really need to go back and refresh my memory. TIA
 
This case haunts me - but I do have a few questions, I know the first one will seem like it's really out in left field but:

Are there any known military operations nearby where Dennis disappeared?

This happened on the Appalachian Trail according to the article below:

http://maryhaberstroh.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/AshevilleCitizenTimes_NC_June_18_1969.pdf

Is it possible he could have fallen down a hidden shaft? If he saw something he should not have, could not be returned to his family for that very reason?

What about that FBI agent Jim Rike - might that explain why he committed suicide? Also, as to why the Green Berets were called in for the search?

My apologies if this sounds conspiratorial. But there is something very weird about this little boy's disappearance and why the Green Berets were called in on this case to look for him.
 
I don’t remember anything about evidence pointing to drowning or even him dying of exposure, but then I’m a little rusty on the details of this case. Do you have a link with that information? I really need to go back and refresh my memory. TIA
The evidence has already been posted in the thread. A small shoe print (like Dennis's) was found near a branch of the river. Several years later, a ginseng poacher spotted a boy's skeleton near the river in the same general direction as the footprint. He didn't report his discovery for several years, and by then the skeleton had succumbed to animals and the elements.
 
The evidence has already been posted in the thread. A small shoe print (like Dennis's) was found near a branch of the river. Several years later, a ginseng poacher spotted a boy's skeleton near the river in the same general direction as the footprint. He didn't report his discovery for several years, and by then the skeleton had succumbed to animals and the elements.

Oh, that? Yes, I'm very aware of all that evidence. Though I'm not sure how you would necessarily determine with that alone that this child succumbed to the elements, in fact it's impossible to determine that. The shoe print could have been at any point in his disappearance. He could have left a shoe print, then been taken afterward, whether by an animal or a human. And the boy's skeleton, although this wasn't verified to belong to a "boy" could have been anyone from whoever knows what point in time. It was never tested. In fact, it wasn't verified at all, as it was no longer there when they went back to try to find it.

I'm not saying he didn't succumb to the elements, but no one can say for sure. But thank you very much for your input. It's always appreciated.
 
Oh, that? Yes, I'm very aware of all that evidence. Though I'm not sure how you would necessarily determine with that alone that this child succumbed to the elements, in fact it's impossible to determine that. The shoe print could have been at any point in his disappearance. He could have left a shoe print, then been taken afterward, whether by an animal or a human. And the boy's skeleton, although this wasn't verified to belong to a "boy" could have been anyone from whoever knows what point in time. It was never tested. In fact, it wasn't verified at all, as it was no longer there when they went back to try to find it.

I'm not saying he didn't succumb to the elements, but no one can say for sure. But thank you very much for your input. It's always appreciated.

In fact,

When you think about it, there really is NO conclusive evidence for what happened to Dennis Martin. Lost/died of exposure, animal attack or abduction. I believe lost/died of exposure as the most likely scenario, because as circumstantial as the shoe print may be, and the skeletal remains, it is the only tangible evidence that there is in this case.

I believe the Ginseng hunter's story. No reason to doubt that. However, so much time has passed that we may never know what really happened.

Satch
 
Can't remember if this has been posted before re: the Dennis Martin disappearance:

http://www.journal.com.ph/editorial...ion-on-the-bizarre-vanishing-of-dennis-martin

Adding to all of this is the presence of armed special operations forces troops prowling about in the wake of the vanishing. What were they doing there for a civilian disappearance and why wouldn’t they keep law enforcement informed of what they were up to?
This is the aspect of the case that was brought up by James Dowell in his mail, in which he directed me to a comment by an individual on a thread at a forum claiming to be an ex-special forces officer, which offers plenty to think about. The comment originally appeared on the site “Tales of the Weird,” in 2014 by a user called Harold Cleveland, in which he sheds some possible insight to this military aspect of the Dennis Martin case. I am including the full comment here:


To all concerned,

I’ve read some incredibly uninformed and ignorant comments here and I feel it’s my responsibility to help out when appropriate. My name is Max and I am a retired Army SOCOM Commander. Spent 26 years in service with most of them attached to 10th mountain division in Colorado. Our Special Forces are never called to assist in civilian operations. That falls to the local National Guard and approved by the state governer . The fact that they were armed as well is another huge no no. During my command and every other mission I was aware of we were not allowed by Federal protocol to do either. Something is very wrong with this missing kid scenario.

I’ve done some research on this case both while on active duty and after my retirement. The inside facts of this case depict a frightening investigation. Bottom line is that searching started within a few minutes of the boy’s disappearance and lasted three months with every resource imaginable being deployed. Don’t even start with “the terrain was difficult, holes and caves and cliffs and creeks”, etc. Our special troops can find almost anything, anytime and in any terrain. We have the highest technology available worldwide and easily the best training and real world wartime and mission specific experience that the normal civilian populace can scarcely imagine. After studying this case, the fact that no trace of the boy was ever found is mind boggling.

The Green Berets that were tasked in this search were there for a specific reason. They were armed for a specific reason. I can’t and won’t say why because my oath documents won’t allow it. But I will remind you of these facts. Nationwide there have only been four occasions where the special forces were brought in on a civilian missing persons case. Two of these involved a possible armed perpetrator. The other two were this case and another similar to it about three years later and regionally nearby. This is out of thousands of missing cases since the early sixties when our special troops were born. There is no such thing as “well, they were training nearby anyway and….”, nope, we as commanders were never allowed to divert orders unless the division general officer (at least a one star) within SOCOM approved it. For that to happen, it must be for reasons that have a direct effect on our national security. No missing persons case has ever been on that level ever based on it’s own merit. My research proved that to my own eyes.

In conclusion, this case goes way beyond a simple missing boy. Let me put it this way to you skeptics out there. In 1969 (same year as this case) in the southern jungles of Cambodia we lost a man on team maneuvers one night. This was in some of the worst weather and impossible terrain known in this world. His tracks were instantly washed away and nighttime operations were notoriously difficult as a rule. After a weeks time, it was our dogs that finally tracked him down. They live for these missions and they love it. In the Martin case, the dogs just laid down whining and refused to search. Several sets of dogs of different breeds. The FBI second in command told me this in person. That fact alone promotes the high strangeness factor. These cases are far from normal and must be reinvestigated to ensure that the horror that this family went through never happens to anyone again.

When it’s your child that slips off for just a minute and the panic sets in and assets are immediately deployed in great mass, you would expect to find the child pretty quick. But when they just flat disappear like smoke as in this case, it baffles even the most experienced of us and breaks our hearts as well. I hope this hideous event never happens to any of you for I have seen it many times firsthand and you just cannot imagine anything worse, God bless and thanks for reading.
 
Can't remember if this has been posted before re: the Dennis Martin disappearance:

http://www.journal.com.ph/editorial...ion-on-the-bizarre-vanishing-of-dennis-martin

Adding to all of this is the presence of armed special operations forces troops prowling about in the wake of the vanishing. What were they doing there for a civilian disappearance and why wouldn’t they keep law enforcement informed of what they were up to?
This is the aspect of the case that was brought up by James Dowell in his mail, in which he directed me to a comment by an individual on a thread at a forum claiming to be an ex-special forces officer, which offers plenty to think about. The comment originally appeared on the site “Tales of the Weird,” in 2014 by a user called Harold Cleveland, in which he sheds some possible insight to this military aspect of the Dennis Martin case. I am including the full comment here:


To all concerned,

I’ve read some incredibly uninformed and ignorant comments here and I feel it’s my responsibility to help out when appropriate. My name is Max and I am a retired Army SOCOM Commander. Spent 26 years in service with most of them attached to 10th mountain division in Colorado. Our Special Forces are never called to assist in civilian operations. That falls to the local National Guard and approved by the state governer . The fact that they were armed as well is another huge no no. During my command and every other mission I was aware of we were not allowed by Federal protocol to do either. Something is very wrong with this missing kid scenario.

I’ve done some research on this case both while on active duty and after my retirement. The inside facts of this case depict a frightening investigation. Bottom line is that searching started within a few minutes of the boy’s disappearance and lasted three months with every resource imaginable being deployed. Don’t even start with “the terrain was difficult, holes and caves and cliffs and creeks”, etc. Our special troops can find almost anything, anytime and in any terrain. We have the highest technology available worldwide and easily the best training and real world wartime and mission specific experience that the normal civilian populace can scarcely imagine. After studying this case, the fact that no trace of the boy was ever found is mind boggling.

The Green Berets that were tasked in this search were there for a specific reason. They were armed for a specific reason. I can’t and won’t say why because my oath documents won’t allow it. But I will remind you of these facts. Nationwide there have only been four occasions where the special forces were brought in on a civilian missing persons case. Two of these involved a possible armed perpetrator. The other two were this case and another similar to it about three years later and regionally nearby. This is out of thousands of missing cases since the early sixties when our special troops were born. There is no such thing as “well, they were training nearby anyway and….”, nope, we as commanders were never allowed to divert orders unless the division general officer (at least a one star) within SOCOM approved it. For that to happen, it must be for reasons that have a direct effect on our national security. No missing persons case has ever been on that level ever based on it’s own merit. My research proved that to my own eyes.

In conclusion, this case goes way beyond a simple missing boy. Let me put it this way to you skeptics out there. In 1969 (same year as this case) in the southern jungles of Cambodia we lost a man on team maneuvers one night. This was in some of the worst weather and impossible terrain known in this world. His tracks were instantly washed away and nighttime operations were notoriously difficult as a rule. After a weeks time, it was our dogs that finally tracked him down. They live for these missions and they love it. In the Martin case, the dogs just laid down whining and refused to search. Several sets of dogs of different breeds. The FBI second in command told me this in person. That fact alone promotes the high strangeness factor. These cases are far from normal and must be reinvestigated to ensure that the horror that this family went through never happens to anyone again.

When it’s your child that slips off for just a minute and the panic sets in and assets are immediately deployed in great mass, you would expect to find the child pretty quick. But when they just flat disappear like smoke as in this case, it baffles even the most experienced of us and breaks our hearts as well. I hope this hideous event never happens to any of you for I have seen it many times firsthand and you just cannot imagine anything worse, God bless and thanks for reading.

I read this yesterday from the site,

Not sure if I find Mr. Cleveland to be the most credible. It puts too much conspiracy theory out there when there is no proof that such existed. The shortest distance between two points is a straight live. I believe that Dennis wondered away from the campsite and got lost. It is possible that he drowned in a river or fell down a shaft, and was tragically severely injured or killed that first day night. It is also possible that if Dennis heard his name being called, he could have wondered further and further away, not watching where he was going and straight into danger. There was an agent that worked on the case that committed suicide, but without having something to go on. we are just grasping at straws.

The Martin family believes that Dennis was abducted probably because it is the easiest way to deal with any sort of closure due to a tragic loss. Anticipating him as missing brings no closure at all to the family. Believing that he was kidnapped, puts the situation where it is "out of our control." And over the years they think, "Maybe someday, Dennis will escape his captors and come back to his family?" But the real reason is why kidnap a child in that area? You would have to be really prepared to go over the rough terrain, mountains, and rivers to do something like that. There really is no motive for a kidnapping. It could have happened, but the odds are very, very small. The Green Berets were there for a military training exercise.

Furthermore, if you believe the ginseng hunter's story, as I do, there would be no reason not to believe that Dennis Martin died of exposure, and that the bones and skull found were his. If the children had stayed together, this whole tragedy never would have happened.

Satch
 

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