TN - Gail Nowacki Palmgren, 44, Signal Mountain, 30 April 2011 - #12

[Some1Nose]

Even though theorizing is typically the stuff us WSers are made of; to me, this is not a time so much for speculation as it is for a thorough investigation. There are volumes of forensic evidence for authorities to sift through, ever so dilligently. It will take time for a comprehensive examination to be conducted, and hopefully for a conclusive determination to be made as to what truly happened to Gail.

Heartfelt condolences to her loved ones.

Rest in Peace Dear Lady!

"When you are sorrowful look again in your heart, and you shall see that in truth you are weeping for that which has been your delight."
~Kahlil Gibran​

 

[ThoughtFox]

Sorry, but I didn't have a commonly held idea....I was thinking more along the line of someone doing harm to her and tossing her phone away.

Oh, okay ~ sorry if I misunderstood.

 

[MsFacetious]

Because of the circumstances going on when Gail disappeared, I don't think it is unreasonable to continue to wonder what REALLY happened. I'm not ruling out a horrible accident at all nor do I want to blame the innocent. However, I can't excuse the way her estranged husband reacted to her disappearance.

LE definitely needs to look at all of this under a microscope. But I do hope it was just a horrible accident, especially for her children's sake.

I totally agree that it is reasonable to continue wondering.
I just am relieved that in THIS case there is HOPE it was just an accident.
Obviously in other cases like Laci Peterson, or Lori Hacking there was no hope it was an accident.

I have also seen cases where the boyfriend/husband/ex reacted badly, didn't report them missing... and were 100% innocent.

So... I am hoping for the best case scenario for Gail's kids... and the one that makes the most sense logistically.
Just an accident.

I don't see him trying to run her off the road there-too dangerous. Wouldn't there be paint scrapings on his car if he were to hit her and force her off the road? And then he would have to be doing this in broad daylight on a straightaway and just happen to find the perfect spot to run her off the road and not hit any oncoming traffic and not go down right after her. He would also run a risk of her surviving any kind of crash and then he'd be in deep.

I am sorry, but I just don't see "murder by running someone off the road" as the most attractive means for murder, IMO.

The same reason I think "suicide by driving off the side of a road" is probably not likely either. No guarantees.
IF there was foul play I wouldn't think she was run off the road anyway.

I would think she was murdered and then put in the Jeep, then the Jeep sent over to make it look like an accident.
This has been done more than once, where the wife was killed and then the husband tried to stage a car accident.
This would be the most effective one though is that's what it was. But the location makes it unlikely.

I *think* they might be able to tell what direction she was facing.
Did she drive straight off, or roll sideways?
They might know from the damage to the Jeep... but maybe not with so much damage.
There wouldn't likely still be evidence on the mountain after this long.
So I don't know what they will be able to determine... hopefully which way she went off will be something they can find out.

 

[mountainmomma]

On that part of East Brow Road there isn't a lot of places to turn around. She could have initially headed toward the W then remembered it was closed and tried to turn around and accidently back ed up to far...just a thought.

 

[Emeralgem]

I totally agree that it is reasonable to continue wondering.
I just am relieved that in THIS case there is HOPE it was just an accident.
Obviously in other cases like Laci Peterson, or Lori Hacking there was no hope it was an accident.

I have also seen cases where the boyfriend/husband/ex reacted badly, didn't report them missing... and were 100% innocent.

So... I am hoping for the best case scenario for Gail's kids... and the one that makes the most sense logistically.
Just an accident.




The same reason I think "suicide by driving off the side of a road" is probably not likely either. No guarantees.
IF there was foul play I wouldn't think she was run off the road anyway.

B]I would think she was murdered and then put in the Jeep, then the Jeep sent over to make it look like an accident.
This has been done more than once, where the wife was killed and then the husband tried to stage a car accident.
This would be the most effective one though is that's what it was. But the location makes it unlikely.[/B]
I *think* they might be able to tell what direction she was facing.
Did she drive straight off, or roll sideways?
They might know from the damage to the Jeep... but maybe not with so much damage.
There wouldn't likely still be evidence on the mountain after this long.
So I don't know what they will be able to determine... hopefully which way she went off will be something they can find out.

BBM....I have always believed this was a MFH, still do and taking into consideration MP's attorneys are now saying she went off the mountain at 12:25 pm which just so happens to be the exact time MP supposedly arrived at the residence on Ridgerock this WSer is inclined to believe she was murdered or heavily sedated elsewhere on Saturday the 30th of April and then at some point put in the Jeep, and the jeep was then sent over the mountain to make it look like an accident.

Also, for her to have had a fatal accident and go off the mountain at that exact spot on the mountain is beyond hinky.

So IMHO the exact location where they are claiming she went off the mountain makes it highly unlikely this was an accident JMHO

 

[Oriah]

On that part of East Brow Road there isn't a lot of places to turn around. She could have initially headed toward the W then remembered it was closed and tried to turn around and accidently back ed up to far...just a thought.

That thought crossed my mind as a logical explanation for an accident also, mountainmomma.

 

[Oriah]

BBM....I have always believed this was a MFH, still do and taking into consideration MP's attorneys are now saying she went off the mountain at 12:25 pm which just so happens to be the exact time MP supposedly arrived at the residence on Ridgerock this WSer is inclined to believe she was murdered or heavily sedated elsewhere on Saturday the 30th of April and then at some point put in the Jeep, and the jeep was then sent over the mountain to make it look like an accident.

Also, for her to have had a fatal accident and go off the mountain at that exact spot on the mountain is beyond hinky.

So IMHO the exact location where they are claiming she went off the mountain makes it highly unlikely this was an accident JMHO

I cannot for the life of me put together this 12:25pm release of info. WS'ers triangulated those 'last pings' months and months ago- and that's just based on what was in MSM and public info.

I certainly understand that it's difficult to search certain types of terrain under certain conditions...but if they were picking up an elevation change from a satellite ping in a vehicle or a GPS enabled phone- or both- well someone is going to have to really give me a good reason for not being able to pinpoint the coordinates, and recover Gail much, much earlier.

What is going ON here? I feel slightly blindsided- although obviously glad she has been finally recovered.

 

[ThoughtFox]

Oriah: I am still wondering what is going on with this timeline and the cell phone pings!!!

Several news articles overnight:

...former Red Bank Police Chief Ronnie Dodd says this is a crime scene investigators worst nightmare.
"Not only is it hard to get to, the simple fact of the vehicle wrecking like it has, has made the crime scene spread possibly over a hundred yards or so," said Dodd.
(snip)
According to Gail Palmgren's husband's attorneys, they believe Gail lost control of her car and crashed back on April 30 just after noon. That's something the forensic experts from UT's Body Farm will try to determine - exactly what happened to the Jeep and the person inside.


http://www.newschannel9.com/news/jeep-1006988-scene-palmgren.html

 

[ThoughtFox]

SIGNAL MOUNTAIN, HAMILTON COUNTY (WRCB) -- Now that the location, of Gail Palmgren's Jeep has been pin-pointed investigators will reconstruct the crash scene atop Signal Mountain to determine out how and why the Jeep left the road.

Investigators on the Palmgren scene are doing just that . . .

(snip)

They say their next step is to find the data stored in the Jeep, in what is called a block box.

Sturdivan (reconstruction expert) explains these devices can tell a lot about what happened in the moments before impact.

"It's woken the box up and said 'look, we're about to be in a crash' and it will record data in those events," he says.

The black box, hopefully, will reveal several important clues.

"Speed, you can get the tract position of the seats, the braking capability or whether the person was on the breaks or not, throttle position," he adds.


http://www.wrcbtv.com/story/16178332/what-investigators-hope-to-learn-during-crash-reconstruction

 

[ThoughtFox]

Saturday, December 3rd, 2011
Remains hold clues to Gail Palmgren

“There’s not a whole lot left other than bones up there,” Hammond said. “There’s enough remains with DNA to confirm it’s her. ... I’m 98 percent sure it’s her, but only the doctor can say for sure.”

(snip)

The roadway was straight, not curvy, in the 1400 block where the Jeep went off the cliff. According to the Morristown-based National Weather Service reports, there was no precipitation; April 30 was a warm, partly sunny day.

As it veered toward the edge of the mountain, the Jeep struck a small boulder about the size of a tire. The boulder, weighing a couple of hundred pounds, also was found near the crash site.

“It would have taken a crew to move it,” Hammond said. “We have every reason to believe the Jeep hit it and carried it over.”

The Jeep went over a couple of rock bluffs and rolled, damaging the roof and front end, officials said. It came to rest about 150 feet from the W Road


http://timesfreepress.com/news/2011/dec/03/remains-hold-clues-gail-palmgren/

 

[Oriah]

SIGNAL MOUNTAIN, HAMILTON COUNTY (WRCB) -- Now that the location, of Gail Palmgren's Jeep has been pin-pointed investigators will reconstruct the crash scene atop Signal Mountain to determine out how and why the Jeep left the road.

Investigators on the Palmgren scene are doing just that . . .

(snip)

They say their next step is to find the data stored in the Jeep, in what is called a block box.

Sturdivan (reconstruction expert) explains these devices can tell a lot about what happened in the moments before impact.

"It's woken the box up and said 'look, we're about to be in a crash' and it will record data in those events," he says.

The black box, hopefully, will reveal several important clues.

"Speed, you can get the tract position of the seats, the braking capability or whether the person was on the breaks or not, throttle position," he adds.


http://www.wrcbtv.com/story/16178332/what-investigators-hope-to-learn-during-crash-reconstruction

Thank you, ThoughtFox.

As I brought up a loooong time ago- was there Sirius or OnStar or GPS or tracking device- another satellite based service that would register with a satellite at the time of the crash, installed on the vehicle?

If they're telling us that they recovered and analyzed the data from the vehicle within 24hrs of releasing a public statement as to time and date of the crash, I am unbelievably impressed with the rapid analysis- and sadly disappointed that no one put together the coordinates much, much earlier.

If that information was already known, I cannot find ANY reason why Gail was not recovered in May.
Idk. Skeptic here I guess- and as I said, feeling a bit blindsided.

But I think that release of info was a big boo boo.

 

[ThoughtFox]

Thank you, ThoughtFox.

As I brought up a loooong time ago- was there Sirius or OnStar or GPS or tracking device- another satellite based service that would register with a satellite at the time of the crash, installed on the vehicle?

If they're telling us that they recovered and analyzed the data from the vehicle within 24hrs of releasing a public statement as to time and date of the crash, I am unbelievably impressed with the rapid analysis- and sadly disappointed that no one put together the coordinates much, much earlier.

If that information was already known, I cannot find ANY reason why Gail was not recovered in May.
Idk. Skeptic here I guess- and as I said, feeling a bit blindsided.

But I think that release of info was a big boo boo.

I'm not a car expert but I thought the black box was supposed to send that information directly to someone as it happened - isn't that right?

What kind of techno-failure is this turning out to be? Ping Fail ~ and now Black Box Fail? :banghead: Do they think the public are stupid and won't understand the implications of these announcements?

Not to mention Road Failure since there's no guard rail on that part of the mountain. :maddening: On the other hand I can't recall anyone ever going over there before - except for the mystery car they found nearby.

I'm trying to figure out how the Jeep got up enough speed to go over while pushing a large boulder down the mountain.

My husband just gave me a theory ~ her brakes failed. :twocents: Possibly.

 

[believe09]

Oh My. I am so so very sorry for Gail's loved ones. My heart breaks for her beautiful children who found themselves in the middle of a firestorm in April only to have the answer be that their wonderful loving mother was dead the whole time.

Personally, I dont believe this is the time for bitter words but I understand how shocking and frustrating and surreal all of this is.

The holidays are going to be so difficult this year for everyone and I hope everyone has a good support system to sort through all of this.

Peace to all of you who have worked so hard to keep her case front and center.

 

[believe09]

On that part of East Brow Road there isn't a lot of places to turn around. She could have initially headed toward the W then remembered it was closed and tried to turn around and accidently back ed up to far...just a thought.

I think this makes a lot of sense.

 

[Oriah]

Oh My. I am so so very sorry for Gail's loved ones. My heart breaks for her beautiful children who found themselves in the middle of a firestorm in April only to have the answer be that their wonderful loving mother was dead the whole time.

Personally, I dont believe this is the time for bitter words but I understand how shocking and frustrating and surreal all of this is.

The holidays are going to be so difficult this year for everyone and I hope everyone has a good support system to sort through all of this.

Peace to all of you who have worked so hard to keep her case front and center.

I agree, believe09.

Out of sensitivity, maybe we should all just temporarily put analysis on the back burner while the family and friends of the Palmgrens deal with this terrible outcome.

I'm sure MSM will continue to report.

Thoughts and prayers to Gail's loved ones during this difficult time.

 

[BeanE]

I've tweeted a number of news stories on Gail this morning. Not sure they've all been posted here. Here's one of them:



Sheriff Hammond said Ms. Palmgren's purse and cell phone were still inside the battered Jeep. The battery in the cell phone had died, but it was still possible to read the "pings" from the cell phone to determine her exact route after dropping off the children. He said there was only one stop - at a convenience store.

The wreck happened about a half hour after the children were let off.

http://www.chattanoogan.com/articles/article_214723.asp

 

[poppyfrock]

What are the odds that someone will be in a fatal car accident? What are the odds that someone would call police in fear of their life and say that someone is following them as they drive?

Now, what are the odds that someone would have a fatal accident on the same day that they call police in fear because they are being followed? This is all SO weird and crazy and just unlikely in my opinion. I have no idea what happened and believe an accident is definitely possible. But it boggles my mind that the fatal car accident happened when she said she was afraid of whoever was following her. Such a coincidence.

She told both her sister and police that she was afraid and being followed when she still had the children in the car. Yet she was safe....until she dropped them off. Maybe whoever was following her was waiting for her to drop the kids off? I feel terrible for Gail and her children and family.

 

[BeanE]

Locals, referring to the article I just posted, where is the nearest convenience store (or stores if there's more than one) that are closest to Gail's house? If more than one very close by, which store would she have most likely gone to based on most common preference of the locals?

TIA

 

[Pearl*]

Locals, referring to the article I just posted, where is the nearest convenience store (or stores if there's more than one) that are closest to Gail's house? If more than one very close by, which store would she have most likely gone to based on most common preference of the locals?

TIA

The closest is the one directly connected with the Pruett's parking lot, on the corner.

ETA: There is another right before the drug stores, on the way down the front of the mountain. Not as busy a store. So much depends on which way she drove. She could have even gone back through Palisades across the brow from the front side of the mountain, circling back.

 

[BeanE]

Re-posting for reference:

@janabarnello Jana Barnello News Channel 9
Matthew Palmgren's atty: HCSO told them they know crash time/date b/c cell "ping" shows when device height above sea level changed suddenly