TN - Gail Nowacki Palmgren, 44, Signal Mountain, 30 April 2011 - #12

[Irish_Eyes]

I'll speculate on the cell phone ping. I'd imagine Gails cell phone was pinging off a tower at a high elevation on the mountain. When the jeep went over the cliff and stopped at the tree it could no longer ping the high tower because it was blocked from the side of the mountain and pinged a lower tower in the valley area somewhere.

I think I understand now. The phone was pinging off of one tower, and then pinging off another, lower tower. Although the change in elevation was rapid in reality, the data just probably looked like she had switched to pinging from the lower tower - which would occur if:

1) Someone drove down the mountain, or
2) Someone drove off the mountain.

Because from what I gather from locals, driving off the mountain would be rather unusual, I'm guessing the working theory was that she drove down the mountain and then met with some trouble afterwards.

 

[Annie_61]

Not being local I don’t know the distance of the crash site to the area mentioned regarding the phone ping two days after Gail went missing. Are the areas close, is it fact or rumour the phone worked for two weeks after the crash?

http://timesfreepress.com/news/2011/may/23/searchers-comb-signal-missing-woman/?news

Or was that phone ping two days after Gail went missing rumour? If it was recorded do we know why the phone pinged before the crash, stopped, then pinged again two days later? Wish I understood more about phones and their pings.

Sorry if this has been explained but at the moment I have limited internet access so I am reading quickly and may have missed this.

My heart goes out to a lady who was a stranger to me 7 months ago, but come to touch my life through the wonder of the internet. Fly with the angels dear Gail while watching over your children and loved ones. Rest in peace Gail.
:rose::rose:

 

[hollyblue]

They released the statement before the Jeep's GPS was located, IIRC. Jana Barnello at News Channel 9 tweeted "HCSO told them they know crash time/date b/c cell "ping" shows when device height above sea level changed suddenly" -- sounds to me like it's from the GPS in the cell phone, not from the Jeep. And if they knew about those pings a long time ago, then I have a lot of questions as to what, if anything, they did with that cell phone ping info.

They might have thought it was just the phone being discarded...over a cliff ??

On the other vehicle they found, I read in a comment section (somewhere???, but one of the local articles) that it was a yellow Honda (civic?) from the 70 or 80's. They stated how it got there, but I don't remember atm.

Agree, imo, it's a little early to be saying what it looks to be, but I just have this feeling that it will be called an accident too. Sure puts a definition of cold into a new perspective for someone to not show any concern for their children's mother tho...if that's the call. I'll drop any other comments on that subject!:innocent:

What I'm having a hard time understanding is the collection of her remains. Didn't it take a couple of days or longer for Caylee's remains to be found and here they had it completed in an afternoon?:waitasec:

 

[Oriah]

I'll speculate on the cell phone ping. I'd imagine Gails cell phone was pinging off a tower at a high elevation on the mountain. When the jeep went over the cliff and stopped at the tree it could no longer ping the high tower because it was blocked from the side of the mountain and pinged a lower tower in the valley area somewhere.

That would make perfect sense if it were data from the cellular provider, Peliman. But if it were data from the GPS function enabled ON the cell, the satellite ping should have provided exact coordinates.

I'm having a hard time with this one.

 

[Oriah]

Not being local I don’t know the distance of the crash site to the area mentioned regarding the phone ping two days after Gail went missing. Are the areas close, is it fact or rumour the phone worked for two weeks after the crash?

http://timesfreepress.com/news/2011/may/23/searchers-comb-signal-missing-woman/?news

Or was that phone ping two days after Gail went missing rumour? If it was recorded do we know why the phone pinged before the crash, stopped, then pinged again two days later? Wish I understood more about phones and their pings.

Sorry if this has been explained but at the moment I have limited internet access so I am reading quickly and may have missed this.

My heart goes out to a lady who was a stranger to me 7 months ago, but come to touch my life through the wonder of the internet. Fly with the angels dear Gail while watching over your children and loved ones. Rest in peace Gail.
:rose::rose:

BBM:

This is an issue for me, as well Annie_61.

We're talking about two different kinds of pings here. Cell tower and satellite pings (GPS).
My very humble opinion only here- but while I can see a tower picking up another ping on the 2nd (it may have 'bounced' or whatever) the GPS (satellite) would have remained static. Unless the vehicle came to rest initially in the first location, and then fell farther several days later (which I can see happening) in which case the GPS would have registered a further change in elevation.

But none of that helps me understand how the coordinates would not have been exact, back in May- leading to an earlier recovery of Gail.

 

[Cazzie]

I'll speculate on the cell phone ping. I'd imagine Gails cell phone was pinging off a tower at a high elevation on the mountain. When the jeep went over the cliff and stopped at the tree it could no longer ping the high tower because it was blocked from the side of the mountain and pinged a lower tower in the valley area somewhere.

Yes, that makes sense, but...

Another poster wondered why this info wasn't (apparently) known relatively quickly and then followed up with searches within the area of the pings. I also wonder. :waitasec:

I can think of 2, maybe 3 reasons, but I'll wait for more official info.

That article posted upthread said that this was the first aerial search for Gail.

I'm heartbroken for Gail, her children, her loving family, and Arlene.

 

[ThoughtFox]

Yes, that makes sense, but...

Another poster wondered why this info wasn't (apparently) known relatively quickly and then followed up with searches within the area of the pings. I also wonder. :waitasec:

I can think of 2, maybe 3 reasons, but I'll wait for more official info.

That article posted upthread said that this was the first aerial search for Gail.

I'm heartbroken for Gail, her children, her loving family, and Arlene.

It might have been the first aerial search, although I thought they had a helicopter search back in the summer along Chickamauga Lake.

However, an aerial search in the summer would never have found that Jeep. It was impossible to see under the canopy of trees and impossible to see from either above or below.

ETA: And someone asked about why infrared couldn't be used in the summer, and I guess because the rocks and trees are so warm in the summer (it was often over 100 degrees) that they wouldn't see a difference in temperature. But now that it's been below freezing several times and the leaves are gone, the metal in the car would show up as a heat signature.

I guess one of the reasons they didn't search there was that they kept getting reports and sightings from other places - here in TN, AL, and even Florida.

I've noticed the past few days that every article has mentioned that sighting on the back of the mountain near Marion County, but if her body and phone were on the front of the mountain near the W-Road the whole time, then that couldn't have been Gail.

 

[ThoughtFox]

What I'm having a hard time understanding is the collection of her remains. Didn't it take a couple of days or longer for Caylee's remains to be found and here they had it completed in an afternoon?:waitasec:

Actually the Body Farm people worked for two days on the mountainside, didn't they? And they had a team of six women.

I don't recall it being much longer for Caylee. They found the body one day, put a canopy over the place, then spent about 24 hours digging up the soil underneath the area to be sure they gathered all the evidence.

:twocents: If the Florida LE spent longer than they needed, it was because there was no excuse for not looking right down the street for that baby all along. The guy who found the remains tried to report it several times and they never went into the woods because the cop saw a big snake.

 

[RubyRed]

An event data recorder shows that the first impact to Gail Palmgren's crimson Jeep Rubicon was a small boulder the vehicle hit before plunging over a precipice on East Brow Road seven months ago.

Traffic investigators plan to consult with national experts on the information stored in the data recorder mounted on the Jeep.

"This data shows everything from major bumps to the car, speed of the car, to the braking system to speed. All of those things at first blush are consistent with an accident," he said.

Hammond declined to release additional details about what was found on the recorder.

http://timesfreepress.com/news/2011/dec/05/gail-palmgren-jeep-removal-planned-for-today/

 

[Oriah]

http://timesfreepress.com/news/2011/dec/05/gail-palmgren-jeep-removal-planned-for-today/

Thanks, RubyRed.

I read the article to say that it was 650 ft in totality from E. Brow to the W Road- but I have on my map that it's 400 (re: elevation change and degree.)

I wonder where I screwed up.

 

[Peliman]

Looking around the net for information, what I'm seeing is this.

Signal mountain appears to have poor cell phone coverage because of the lack of towers. I'm only seeing info for one tower on signal mountain. I'm posting a cell phone tower map and I beleive only one of the three markers handle cell phone calls. In other words, cell phone coverage is very limited on signal mountain.

Will enabling your cell phones location finder assist emergency services in reaching you?

This is partially true but the phone is not a beacon. If it pings off of one tower, your location can be within several square miles. If it pings into a cluster of towers, your location can be more closely determined by triangulation. Looking at the cell tower coverage map, I'm surprised it pinged at any local tower.

Does signal mountain have not only 911 services but E911 or enhanced/911 (phase II standards?)

Could Gail have dialed 911 after the accident.?

Here's the best information I've found to answer questions raised, from Snopes who investigated phone ping and GPS locator claims.

http://www.snopes.com/crime/prevent/cellping.asp

Here is also a cell phone tower map of signal mountain area. It's very sparse for cell phone coverage. Notice Brow road and west road locations. Virtually no towers in the area she was located. JMO

 

[RubyRed]

Signal Mountain does have poor cell reception, as well as other mountains in the area. I would get 1 maybe 2 bars if I was lucky. I don't know about going down as I didn't usually check. When I reached Dunlap, coming from SM I would have reception back. On Cagle Mountain where I lived there was one spot in my yard where I could get a few bars, only found this out because my teenage daughter was trying so hard to be able to text. Definitely a need for better cell coverage in this whole area. jmo

 

[Joe Friday]

Does anyone know what kind of Cell phone Gail had?

TIA

 

[Emeralgem]

It might have been the first aerial search, although I thought they had a helicopter search back in the summer along Chickamauga Lake.

However, an aerial search in the summer would never have found that Jeep. It was impossible to see under the canopy of trees and impossible to see from either above or below.

ETA: And someone asked about why infrared couldn't be used in the summer, and I guess because the rocks and trees are so warm in the summer (it was often over 100 degrees) that they wouldn't see a difference in temperature. But now that it's been below freezing several times and the leaves are gone, the metal in the car would show up as a heat signature.

I guess one of the reasons they didn't search there was that they kept getting reports and sightings from other places - here in TN, AL, and even Florida.

I've noticed the past few days that every article has mentioned that sighting on the back of the mountain near Marion County, but if her body and phone were on the front of the mountain near the W-Road the whole time, then that couldn't have been Gail.

I haven't seen the articles that are mentioning the sighting on Big Fork, and want to thank you for that information..

Right now I'm thinking IF the sighting of Gail on Big Fork that Saturday afternoon and early evening on the 30th is indeed true it is quite possible Gail didn't have her phone...Her phone could have been taken away from her..
Could it be she was taken to the back of the mountain for a period of time and her phone put in an area that would indicate she was somewhere other than she really was? JMHO

 

[believe09]

I dont think the Big Fork sighting was a confirmed sighting.

 

[Emeralgem]

I dont think the Big Fork sighting was a confirmed sighting.

The woman claims she saw Gail and even called LE to report what she saw..
To my knowledge LE has not stated her claim is false...JMHO

 

[KellyConQueso]

They released the statement before the Jeep's GPS was located, IIRC. Jana Barnello at News Channel 9 tweeted "HCSO told them they know crash time/date b/c cell "ping" shows when device height above sea level changed suddenly" -- sounds to me like it's from the GPS in the cell phone, not from the Jeep. And if they knew about those pings a long time ago, then I have a lot of questions as to what, if anything, they did with that cell phone ping info.

GPS does transmit elevation data (I have an app on my phone that tracks how far I walk and calories burned using GPS data and even it detects when I walk up and down hills and my neighborhood is pretty darn flat!) I'm kind of surprised that they could obtain data pointing to a sudden drop but not her location. GPS doesn't work well in heavily forested areas though and they probably were not very trusting of the data they had.

 

[Jade]

I can’t find a family photo that was shown a lot in the beginning taken on a bluff.

Does anyone remember if it was it on East Brow or at Signal Point?

Sad that the family must have enjoyed the spectacular view.


imo

 

[Joe Friday]

I can't believe that the property owners where Gail's Jeep left the roadway didn't investigate further where their rock went. People do not steal rocks and for a rock of this size to disappear you would think it would surly raise some suspicion as to where it went.

Looking at the Google Street Map below it is clear that any one of these large rocks would have left a very big mark where it was drug off the side of the cliff by a car. The area where these rocks are looks to be well manicured and cared for by the property owner. They personally or a lawn care service mows this area on a regular basis and who ever takes care of this lawn had to notice the damage that would have been caused by the rock and the damage to the hedge when the Jeep went over the side of the road.

Residents had noticed that one of the large rocks that was on the edge of the road was missing but they didn't connect to the missing woman.

http://timesfreepress.com/news/2011/dec/01/gail-palmgrens-jeep-found/

[ame="http://maps.google.com/maps?q=1419+East+Brow+Road,+Signal+Mountain+TN+37377&hl=en&ll=35.138254,-85.318049&spn=0.001724,0.002411&sll=37.805851,-122.420568&sspn=0.013325,0.01929&vpsrc=6&gl=us&hnear=1419+E+Brow+Rd,+Signal+Mountain,+Tennessee+37377&t=m&z=19&layer=c&cbll=35.1381,-85.318188&panoid=phpUIoh309_74pz7X9Os5Q&cbp=13,97.45,,0,0"]1419 East Brow Road, Signal Mountain TN 37377 - Google Maps[/ame]

 

[believe09]

The woman claims she saw Gail and even called LE to report what she saw..
To my knowledge LE has not stated her claim is false...JMHO

Agreed. But they have never once indicated that they had a confirmed sighting of Gail after she was seen by Susie B either, IIRC.

I dont think she saw Gail, fwiw, but that is simply because the details of her sighting made no sense to me. That is jmvho.