TN - Holly Bobo, 20, Darden, believed abducted 13 April 2011 - #30

[Mr. Noatak]

My opinions only, no facts here:

What bugs me about all of the latest "white noise" timeline information is that it seems to be presented only as the personal accounts of the witnesses. Have the police verified these timeline accounts using cell phone records, cell towers, interrogations, polygraphs, etc.? I want to believe this timeline, but who really knows? Furthermore, did the police search all of the buildings and surrounding property on the day that Holly disappeared? Yes or no?

Unfortunately, it sounds like we only have Mark Fuhrman's claim about the behavior of the dogs, without an official confirmation. And a hint (but not an official statement) from the latest reports that a dog or dogs were immediately used.

If an average tracking dog was used the same day that Holly disappeared AND was given an item of hers to sniff first, you could trust it to follow her to the location of the getaway vehicle. If an exceptional bloodhound was used, you could (this has been done) continue to track Holly AFTER she was placed into the vehicle and driven away.

 

[Carla Lashelle]

Kind of a forensic/medical question here, I guess. From the puddle of blood, however big that is, could detectives be able to distinguish whether this is from a nose bleed, a stab wound, blunt force trauma, or gun shot? The pattern of the blood would be telling but also wondered if the actual blood itself differs with the type of wound.

There is a difference too between arterial blood, etc. Sadly in this case we have "pools of blood", "flecks of blood" and every imaginable quantity in betwen with no other detail given.

 

[wishuwerehere]

I was wondering when did Clint actually realize his sister needed his help? (For me it’s not about whether he knew Holly was being abducted, but when did he realize that she needed HELP?)

When did the light bulb go off for Clint?

1. Was it when KB told him, “that’s not Drew.”

2. Was it when KB told him to grab a loaded pistol.

3. Was it when he walked into the garage/carport and saw a puddle of blood.

4. Was it when the neighbor drove up the driveway and told Clint he/she had heard screams.

5. Was it when the police arrived.

6. Was it when he wrote out his statement.

I wish we could hear Clint’s 911 call. This may give us a glimpse into Clint’s state of mind at that time. When he called 911, was he conveying his own concern for Holly or everyone else’s?

JMO

 

[x_files]

There is a difference too between arterial blood, etc. Sadly in this case we have "pools of blood", "flecks of blood" and every imaginable quantity in betwen with no other detail given.

Is it possible they never had it tested by a "blood guy" aka "lab geek"? I would assume the answer would be yes, but I am starting to wonder if anything was investigated.

 

[cluciano63]

I was wondering when did Clint actually realize his sister needed his help? (For me it’s not about whether he knew Holly was being abducted, but when did he realize that she needed HELP?)

When did the light bulb go off for Clint?

1. Was it when KB told him, “that’s not Drew.”

2. Was it when KB told him to grab a loaded pistol.

3. Was it when he walked into the garage/carport and saw a puddle of blood.

4. Was it when the neighbor drove up the driveway and told Clint he/she had heard screams.

5. Was it when the police arrived.

6. Was it when he wrote out his statement.

I wish we could hear Clint’s 911 call. This may give us a glimpse into Clint’s state of mind at that time. When he called 911, was he conveying his own concern for Holly or everyone else’s?

JMO

I think the article said #4. That he was about to go toward the woods with his gun when the neighbor appeared and told him about the scream so he stopped and called 911. JMO

 

[wishuwerehere]

I think the article said #4. That he was about to go toward the woods with his gun when the neighbor appeared and told him about the scream so he stopped and called 911. JMO

I'm glad he finally called 911 on Holly's behalf; it just seems as though he needed to be prompted to do so.

jmo

 

[MizStery]

I was wondering when did Clint actually realize his sister needed his help? (For me it’s not about whether he knew Holly was being abducted, but when did he realize that she needed HELP?)

When did the light bulb go off for Clint?

1. Was it when KB told him, “that’s not Drew.”

2. Was it when KB told him to grab a loaded pistol.
3. Was it when he walked into the garage/carport and saw a puddle of blood.
4. Was it when the neighbor drove up the driveway and told Clint he/she had
heard screams.
5. Was it when the police arrived.

6. Was it when he wrote out his statement.

I wish we could hear Clint’s 911 call. This may give us a glimpse into Clint’s state of mind at that time. When he called 911, was he conveying his own concern for Holly or everyone else’s?
JMO

The answer is #4 as best I can figure out. Please correct me if I am inaccurate in the following paragraph. LE of course is the definitive source for the most accurate information on Holly's Bobo's history. Please no personal attacts because this is just the story as I have pieced it together. MOO

I just joined the forum back on page 41 of thread #29.But, I believe in CB written statement he indicates despite the dog barking and waking him,Holly's car in the driveway(she would have been at school),voices(silhouettes of Holly and Camo man)in garage,a phone call from his mother telling him Camo man is NOT Drew grab a gun and pursue Camo guy and Holly,walking
into the garage and finding pool of blood next to Holly's car. It was only after the neighbors mother drove the 350 yards to his house and said James (her son)heard a scream from the house DID the possibility that Camo man was not Drew occurred to CB. That is when he sprang into action to preserve the exit point of Camo man and Holly into he woods....so LE would have a pristine crime sene.

I probably have something out of sequence and have something that was in one newspaper that a video on another day contradicts but it is the best I can do. If you want a timeline that
nails down events in their correct sequence (with no conflicting testimony)....good luck.



PS I read your Websleuths name and knew you were a Pink Floyd fan. I am a big fan of Roger Waters myself.

 

[~n/t~]

My opinions only, no facts here:

What bugs me about all of the latest "white noise" timeline information is that it seems to be presented only as the personal accounts of the witnesses. Have the police verified these timeline accounts using cell phone records, cell towers, interrogations, polygraphs, etc.? I want to believe this timeline, but who really knows? Furthermore, did the police search all of the buildings and surrounding property on the day that Holly disappeared? Yes or no?

Unfortunately, it sounds like we only have Mark Fuhrman's claim about the behavior of the dogs, without an official confirmation. And a hint (but not an official statement) from the latest reports that a dog or dogs were immediately used.

If an average tracking dog was used the same day that Holly disappeared AND was given an item of hers to sniff first, you could trust it to follow her to the location of the getaway vehicle. If an exceptional bloodhound was used, you could (this has been done) continue to track Holly AFTER she was placed into the vehicle and driven away.

In response to your question regarding LE confirming or denying anything? The answer is no. We have do not have confirmation of anything except that TBI investigator Mehr (can't recall what his official title is) said that he trusts initial responders statements and recordings and that they have no reason to lie. <paraphrasing>. Holly's blood was confirmed by her dad and not LE.

In the latest version, they won't even confirm if the lunch bag found was Holly's nor will they confirm if her cell phone was found.

It sounds like they're keeping everything close to their vests.

 

[Peepers]

What a depressing situation. Where is this poor girl and why isnt there more attention to it? Why arent the parents on Today or GMA or SOMETHING?

 

[~n/t~]

What a depressing situation. Where is this poor girl and why isnt there more attention to it? Why arent the parents on Today or GMA or SOMETHING?

They're fasting. :innocent:

 

[Whisperer]

Re: n/t's question/thought upthread-

I'd like to go back and address the early media reports of the K9's used early on (the day of Holly's abduction).

There are reports that LE had to wait for a dog(s) to arrive.
That is not uncommon. Unless there was a K9 patrol officer right in the area at the time the call was made, it is actually likely that it would take some time to have a K9 team respond. And it is likely it would have been a tracking/bite dog.

In addition to that, there have been no reports of what scent article was used; so we don't have any knowledge of the trail that was scented on.

There are a lot of conflicting reports in the media, regarding the SAR dog situation.

I would very much like folks to understand how the K9 situation could have been severely compromised that morning.

I would hope bloodhounds would be the first on the scene. There was blood and it should have been tracked. If there was no trail...then Holly left from that carport. Of course we haven't heard one word about bloodhounds...at least I haven't.

 

[Whisperer]

Kind of a forensic/medical question here, I guess. From the puddle of blood, however big that is, could detectives be able to distinguish whether this is from a nose bleed, a stab wound, blunt force trauma, or gun shot? The pattern of the blood would be telling but also wondered if the actual blood itself differs with the type of wound.

A puddle of blood is discerning. An artery or very large vein opened would do that. I don't see a nosebleed leaving a puddle because the patient moves about and Holly didn't just stand there and let her nose drip blood in one place. The wound had to be pretty bad, I would think. If she was superficially cut through her clothing, the clothes would absorb the blood and not leave a puddle. She was dripping blood and not moving at the time.

There had to be a trail if this was not the last place she was..:waitasec:

 

[Whisperer]

Well, whatever car she left in must have had blood in it.

 

[houndstooth]

Re: n/t's question/thought upthread-

I'd like to go back and address the early media reports of the K9's used early on (the day of Holly's abduction).

There are reports that LE had to wait for a dog(s) to arrive.
That is not uncommon. Unless there was a K9 patrol officer right in the area at the time the call was made, it is actually likely that it would take some time to have a K9 team respond. And it is likely it would have been a tracking/bite dog.

In addition to that, there have been no reports of what scent article was used; so we don't have any knowledge of the trail that was scented on.

There are a lot of conflicting reports in the media, regarding the SAR dog situation.

I would very much like folks to understand how the K9 situation could have been severely compromised that morning.

AIA if this has been mentioned already.
The Sheriff referred to indecisiveness as to whether to use hot trail dogs (15 minutes), or cold trail dogs for longer periods.

I found that quite strange as it would seem to be no question that it was going to be in excess of 15 minutes and better to err on the side of caution and get the cold trail dogs. Pronto.

I never heard follow up on when they arrived, just MF's earlier statements that the dogs found no trail.

 

[Mr. Noatak]

My opinions only, no facts here:

This is my timeline for the morning Holly Bobo disappeared, from newspaper reports. IT IS NOT OFFICIAL! There is no official timeline to my knowledge. Before reading this, note that Holly’s brother apparently did not know that Holly’s boyfriend was across the county hunting turkey that morning. I have tried to avoid interpretation, except where exact times or event sequences must be deduced from the newspaper reports. Some of the events may be simultaneous. This is the best I can do without spending days on it:

4:30 AM (Holly awoke and was in bedroom studying, witnesses unknown)
5:30-5:35 (Holly still in bedroom, witness is father)
5:30-5:35 (Holly’s father leaves for work, witness is himself)
6:30-7:00 (Holly in bedroom and at breakfast table and mother makes a lunch for Holly, witness is mother)
7:00-ish (Holly’s mother leaves for work, witness is herself)
7:00-ish (Holly talking on phone with college girlfriend, witness is girlfriend)
7:30-ish (Holly talked with boyfriend on phone about him being accused of trespassing on her grandmother’s property across the county that morning while turkey hunting, witness is boyfriend)
7:30-ish (a flurry of calls between Holly/Holly’s boyfriend and Holly’s mother about the mistaken trespassing incident, witnesses are boyfriend and mother)
7:30-7:35 (Holly talked with mother on phone, witness is mother)
7:40-ish (Holly going outside to car-possibly 5 minutes earlier than usual so as to not miss a college exam, no witnesses)
7:40 (someone screamed at Holly’s house, male witness to scream is nearest neighbor to Holly’s house)
7:40-ish (male neighbor tells his own mother who also lives with him about hearing the scream)
7:40-ish (male neighbor’s mother calls Holly’s mother at work about the scream, witness is secretary who relays info to mother)
7:50 (Holly’s brother wakes up, witness is himself)
7:50-ish (Holly’s brother notices Holly’s car is still there and calls mother but gets no answer because mother’s phone is not with her, witnesses are himself and secretary)
7:50-ish (mother gets message from secretary and calls son/Holly’s brother who tells his mother about Holly’s car still being there, witnesses are son and mother)
7:50-ish (the alarmed mother calls 911 but is not satisfied that she talked to the right office, witness is Henderson County dispatch)
7:50-ish (Holly is seen being led into woods by a man, witness is brother)
7:50-ish (mother calls son again and son says Holly is walking into woods with a man he thinks is her boyfriend-mother says it cannot be her boyfriend and to call 911 and go outside with a gun and follow them, witnesses are son and mother)
7:50-ish (mother calls 911 again, witness is Decatur County dispatch)
7:50-ish (brother tries to call Holly but gets voicemail, witness is himself)
7:50-ish (brother tries to call Holly’s boyfriend but gets voicemail, witness is himself)
7:50-ish (brother gets a pistol and walks out of house and notices blood by Holly’s car, witness is himself)
8:00 (neighbor woman pulls up to Holly’s house and reports the scream her son heard to Holly’s brother, neighbor woman and Holly’s brother are witnesses for each other)
8:00-ish (brother calls 911, witness is presumably the dispatcher)
8:00-ish (first police car arrives)

The main difficulty with the timeline is the amount of events around 7:50-ish. Since it has been estimated that Holly and the man went into the woods at 7:50, it seems possible that Holly’s brother actually awoke around 7:40 to 7:45, perhaps awoken by the sound of the scream. This would allow ample time for all of the 7:50-ish events to occur.

 

[TobyWong*]

Mr. Noatak, Thank You for typing that out.

I think the calls @ the 7:30 make are interesting too. It set something in motion. IMO and I can't figure out what.

 

[Oriah]

I would hope bloodhounds would be the first on the scene. There was blood and it should have been tracked. If there was no trail...then Holly left from that carport. Of course we haven't heard one word about bloodhounds...at least I haven't.

Clarification:
A bloodhound is a breed of dog, not necessarily a SAR or HRD dog.
Bloodhounds are, however, commonly used in tracking and trailing work.

If a 1st responder was a K9 officer (which I think is probably the case) the K9 would likely have been trained in tracking, trailing, and bite work.

They would not have scented off of the blood, believe it or not. They would have scented off of the air, or the ground. And in the event of a witnessed abduction from a home, LE would have likely immediately gotten a scent article from the person abducted, in order to increase the K9's ability to trail.
Does that make sense?

 

[Oriah]

That would make sense to me. When the sheriff was referring to 'hot trail' dogs, he was referring to a trailing dog. They probably had a police K9 at the ready (or however long it would have taken to have a police K9 team to arrive.)
More 'refined' scent dogs are harder to come by. So they probably had to wait on one. As evidence emerged, LE was probably in quite a quandry.

AIA if this has been mentioned already.
The Sheriff referred to indecisiveness as to whether to use hot trail dogs (15 minutes), or cold trail dogs for longer periods.

I found that quite strange as it would seem to be no question that it was going to be in excess of 15 minutes and better to err on the side of caution and get the cold trail dogs. Pronto.

I never heard follow up on when they arrived, just MF's earlier statements that the dogs found no trail.

 

[TxLady2]

I didn't realize we had to be one to post an opinion. Are dog handlers the only ones allowed to post about dogs? I've followed cases where dogs were used. Scent dogs, tracking dogs, cadaver dogs and even psychic dogs. I don't have to be an expert to know what these dogs do, how they're trained.

BTW...in this case, I believe the dog (s) more than I believe Clint's version.

Maybe I'll ask a mod if an opinion can only be posted by a professional poster.

Psychic dogs???

 

[~n/t~]

Psychic dogs???

LOL yeah the one used by Gale St. John during the CA case. I call them psychic dogs because they work psychics.