GUILTY TN - Joann, 31, & Adrienne Bain, 14, Whiteville, 27 April 2012 - #5

gitana1

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From the article:

That's odd.

A) Who would want to go back to that house?
B) If the garage is where JB and AB were killed, that portion would be a crime scene. Again, who would want to be in a house with a crime scene in the yard?
C) If the garage is not the crime scene, where was?

If the crime scene has already been processed and released, it is no longer an active crime scene. I think that's what LE means.

Thank you. The good news is for TN:

(a) First degree murder is:
... (2) A killing of another committed in the perpetration of or attempt to perpetrate any first degree murder, act of terrorism, arson, rape, robbery, burglary, theft, kidnapping, aggravated child abuse, aggravated child neglect, rape of a child, aggravated rape of a child or aircraft piracy; ....

(b) No culpable mental state is required for conviction under subdivision (a)(2) or (a)(3), except the intent to commit the enumerated offenses or acts in those subdivisions.
http://law.justia.com/codes/tennessee/2010/title-39/chapter-13/part-2/39-13-202/

So if they can prove she planned it, doesn't matter what her mental state is.

You are misunderstanding the statute. It means that, for example, if someone intended to kidnap a person and a death resulted somehow from the kidnapping, even if the kidnapper did not intend to kill the victim, even if they did not premeditate the killing, they are culpable of first degree murder.

Here, "mental state" is not a reference to mental competency. It's a reference to intent or the lack thereof.

P.S., I have no opinion about TM's mental capacity or competency at this point.
 

gitana1

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HaikuMommy

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Wow, that is awfully quick, for MJ to be filing for custody of Alexandria. I would think he would let her settle back into a routine and grieve her mom and sister first. But I guess the longer he waits, the lower his chances are of gaining custody. And if GB takes Alexandria and Kyliyah to AZ, MJ would probably have a hard time even being considered for custody.

This makes me wonder if MJ was never told about the CPS investigation with AM, and is mad that GB allowed AM to be near the girls after that. I know I would be mad... but I can't imagine ever giving up my parental rights either. Even if it meant relocating to be more involved in their lives. I know some dads feel like a third wheel after the mom remarries, and think maybe their kids would actually thrive more if they stepped aside, but it isn't true (unless the biodad is abusive or something). Kids know they are half mom and half dad, and they want to have both bio parents in their life. JMO
 

Bystander66

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I was just thinking..wouldn't this be a federal crime? Wouldn't they be tried in a federal court? If so, is the law the same? I've been looking but cannot find an answer.
 
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I am convinced that AM wanted people to think JB had run off with the girls. Not with HIM, but just ran away from GB. And I think JB and GB may have been arguing about whether AM should be allowed around the girls... and AM knew it. He knew GB would think JB left because of this disagreement. That is why he killed JB and AB, especially via strangulation which wouldn't leave blood or bullet holes anywhere. JMO

He wasn't very smart though, since the asthma medication being left behind was a big clue that JB did not run off with the girls.

YES!!! This is also my theory! I also think it is likely that AM may have intentionally instigated some type of conflict between JB and GB the night of the 26th, which resulted in JB's FB post and AB's Twitter post, plus may have had GB going to bed alone, and JB planning to sleep with the girls. I also wonder if AM had planned to have TM drive up during the night and then drive back with the girls, while AM stayed, thus being there when GB woke up. Do we know if AM was at GB's house that morning? I watched and never saw anything to make me think otherwise. What a great way to look innocent, if you had nerves of steel, and were a great liar. And, if you noticed on the store video, AM, who had already brutally murdered two people and had two little girls stashed somewhere, was cool as a cucumber.

I tend towards him having planned to kill AB and JB, arrogantly believing his plan was so perfect he wouldn't get caught. I think he had gotten away with so much in the past, including child molestation, that he was sure he would get away with this. He thought he had a few days. It was the perfect plan. He wasn't in a hurry. He didn't think they would ever look for bodies behind his house. He went to the store for a drink with his hair cut and his beard growing out, because he didn't think anyone suspected him. At that point he thought he still had time and his plan was on track. He had food and supplies and would quietly slip out of town with the girls "shortly".

AM=SOCIOPATH

My theory only
 

butterfly1978

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It makes me made about MJ, does anyone have his FB link still? I didnt save it I want to see what he has said.
I wish they would give an update about how the girls are doing
 
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Trauma experts help question girls in U.S. murder, abduction case

Child trauma specialists are helping investigators interview two girls about being seized ...

Investigators believe the girls had been out in the woods since April 30 or May 1.

The area where they were held in Mississippi is remote, heavily wooded and a prime hunting ground. ...

"It had been raining, it was just miserable conditions. They had no shelter. ... . To my knowledge, they had no change of clothes, they had no shelter. Basically, they were just hiding out."

Mayes had brought a backpack of food and water, but supplies ran out about three days before they were rescued. ...

Agents immediately shared with them the water and snacks they were carrying with them. ...

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sns-rt-usa-mississippibodiesl1e8gc1f6-20120512,0,4126473.story?page=1

Thanks so much for posting this Quester!
 

Bystander66

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If the crime scene has already been processed and released, it is no longer an active crime scene. I think that's what LE means.



You are misunderstanding the statute. It means that, for example, if someone intended to kidnap a person and a death resulted somehow from the kidnapping, even if the kidnapper did not intend to kill the victim, even if they did not premeditate the killing, they are culpable of first degree murder.

Here, "mental state" is not a reference to mental competency. It's a reference to intent or the lack thereof.

P.S., I have no opinion about TM's mental capacity or competency at this point.

I heard one lawyer on one of the news shows (cannot remember who or what show) that said TM should claim she was present but not involved . Her sentence would be lighter. This is where her lawyer might introduce her mental problems..... list a host of recognized legal defenses involving mental illness.

I think she should spend time in jail so she can understand the consequences of her actions, and so she won't go right back on the street and hook-up with another loser. She certainly needs therapy.

And come on, TM family. Why aren't you there in TN? If by some miracle she gets out of jail, she needs some positive structure in her life.
 

Ghostwheel

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If the crime scene has already been processed and released, it is no longer an active crime scene. I think that's what LE means.



You are misunderstanding the statute. It means that, for example, if someone intended to kidnap a person and a death resulted somehow from the kidnapping, even if the kidnapper did not intend to kill the victim, even if they did not premeditate the killing, they are culpable of first degree murder.

Here, "mental state" is not a reference to mental competency. It's a reference to intent or the lack thereof.

P.S., I have no opinion about TM's mental capacity or competency at this point.
I understand mental culpability is not a reference to mental competency. But if it can be proven that she helped plan the kidnapping, and she is found guilty of such, her competency regarding the murder won't matter. The murder is attached to the kidnapping. The only thing is that if she is proven "mentally retarded" (Not sure if that is the same criteria for insanity ), she could not be executed under Tennessee's Capital Punishment Laws.

Now if they could prove she was not mentally competent to plan a kidnapping, that could change the murder charge.
 

Bystander66

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I understand mental culpability is not a reference to mental competency. But if it can be proven that she helped plan the kidnapping, and she is found guilty of such, her competency regarding the murder won't matter. The murder is attached to the kidnapping. The only thing is that if she is proven "mentally retarded" (Not sure if that is the same criteria for ), she could not be executed under Tennessee's Capital Punishment Laws.

Now if they could prove she was not mentally competent to plan a kidnapping, that could change the murder charge.

Doesn't look like the death penalty is on the table. Per CNN link:

Convictions carry possible sentences of 15 to 60 years in prison under Tennessee law. Bond has been set at $500,000 for Teresa Mayes, while Mary Frances Mayes' bond was set at $300,000, Deputy Clerk Rhonda Sipes said.
 
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Hi Holly, I wanted to thank you for the rumor info. Very interesting and I wouldn't be surprised if some of that is true. Most of it even. I think you could be right about GB.....I can see both sides of this....so I'm on the fence. But I think AM was like a son to him, very likely. You are probably right about GB teaching AM mechanics. I am really thinking AM had sociopathic tendencies, at least. Which could explain why he had so many people fooled. Interesting about that person you know, too. I use to know someone like that.....confusing and then scary when things become clearer. Jmo.

It is confusing. There are red flags galore, but making sense of them is difficult. Sometimes we aren't dealing with the usual human failings. Sometimes it is much more than that and we just don't have a reference point.
 

tiredblondy

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I've said this before and I'll say it again.

My very strong opinion is this...
AM and his mother (MM?) did the planning and TM was going to be used as the scapegoat. I think she was isolated and controlled and used- period.


As far as that guy getting his daughter back, it's my opinion that the girls need to stay together for their emotional and mental health. Why if you love someone would you want to jerk them out of all they'd known when they've just lost their mother and sister?
 

gitana1

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I was just thinking..wouldn't this be a federal crime? Wouldn't they be tried in a federal court? If so, is the law the same? I've been looking but cannot find an answer.

The murder charges are state charges for a state crime. So are the kidnapping charges although they could be liable for federal kidnapping charges too, since the victims were taken across state lines. But thus far, the feds have not gotten involved in the prosecution.
 

gitana1

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I understand mental culpability is not a reference to mental competency. But if it can be proven that she helped plan the kidnapping, and she is found guilty of such, her competency regarding the murder won't matter. The murder is attached to the kidnapping. The only thing is that if she is proven "mentally retarded" (Not sure if that is the same criteria for insanity ), she could not be executed under Tennessee's Capital Punishment Laws.

Now if they could prove she was not mentally competent to plan a kidnapping, that could change the murder charge.

Yes, that is 100% right! If she lacked the intent to kidnap the victims, she could not found guilty of felony murder.
 

gitana1

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Mark Johnson fb

His FB proves why it is essential that a person imagine the unthinkable before waiving their parental rights. The usual case is when someone is having a hard time with support and they have started a new family and the other parent has remarried. I've had a couple of clients who gave up rights to their kids (earlier on). They don't imagine that the mother could die and any unofficial agreements as to contact could go right out the window. In the eyes of the law, he is no longer Adrienne and Alexandria's father and has no say over Adrienne's funeral or Alexandria's welfare, at this point. And it seems he really loves those girls and is broken up about what has happened. I mean, he has been non-stop since day one trying to get the word out about the missing kids and ex-wife.
 

Yoda

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His FB proves why it is essential that a person imagine the unthinkable before waiving their parental rights. The usual case is when someone is having a hard time with support and they have started a new family and the other parent has remarried. I've had a couple of clients who gave up rights to their kids (earlier on). They don't imagine that the mother could die and any unofficial agreements as to contact could go right out the window. In the eyes of the law, he is no longer Adrienne and Alexandria's father and has no say over Adrienne's funeral or Alexandria's welfare, at this point. And it seems he really loves those girls and is broken up about what has happened. I mean, he has been non-stop since day one trying to get the word out about the missing kids and ex-wife.

I am sure this is distressing for all of them. It doesn't sound like he wasn't involved with the girls. And I can understand him wanting custody back after knowing that AM was allowed to remain in contact with the girls after being accused of inappropriate behavior. I don't feel MJ is doing this for attention or money. I get the feeling he is doing this because he is worried about AB, he's worried about her welfare. Moo
 

sparkysmom

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While I do feel badly for the girl's biological father, if Gary Bains legally adopted Alexandria, he will have NO chance of getting her back IMO. In the eyes of the law, she is now Gary Bains' daughter, period. Her legal connection with GB is even more iron-clad than her legal connection was with her own mother. My father died when I was young and my mother remarried, and he adopted my brother and me. When I read the adoption declaration, it was very, very solid and unmistakable exactly who I "belonged" to.
 

poppyfrock

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I don't think it would be good or healthy for the girls to be seperated after all they have lost and been through together. :(
 
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