GUILTY TN - Joann, 31, & Adrienne Bain, 14, Whiteville, 27 April 2012 - #5

menmo

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This whole story reminds me of Michael Plumadore, who also was a "trusted family friend." Mother and step-father used him as babysitter for the three daughters, until one of the children ended up chopped-up in his freezer.
I agree, to a point. I feel like JB and GB for some reason were a higher caliber of person than Aliahna Lemmon's mom and step dad. I'm basing that on what I've read only about how they lived and the fact that GB owned his own business and JB was going to college. I know that isn't all there is that determines people, but it's just a feeling I have.


Sorry to all for all the OT posts above. Things like this make me really stop and think about my own life.
 

melissasmom

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I agree, to a point. I feel like JB and GB for some reason were a higher caliber of person than Aliahna Lemmon's mom and step dad. I'm basing that on what I've read only about how they lived and the fact that GB owned his own business and JB was going to college. I know that isn't all there is that determines people, but it's just a feeling I have.


Sorry to all for all the OT posts above. Things like this make me really stop and think about my own life.

I get that feeling too. Aliahna's family had a whole lot of bad stuff going on, for a long time from the looks of it.
I myself, do not have so much of an issue with GB and JB thinking that AM was not a bad guy. Especially if GB had known him since he was a child and looked upon him as a son.
BUT- after the accusations of what AM did to one of the children, yeah, that does bother me that they still let the girls stay there. JMO

Sometimes we go off topic to let off a little steam. Happens a lot :)

ETA: Hmm, just to clarify-I meant I can see the Bains not having a problem with AM UP UNTIL the accusations. After that, not so much...
 

MaryJaneSmith

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Okay, I have more understanding now that you say you have met AM. So you must be from the area. Have you ever met MJ or any of the B's? I ask because you seem so adamant that GB is at fault for what happened, at least partially, imo. Some people, and it's beyond me why, are much more trusting with themselves and their family than I am. Not saying I like it, but anyone in our lives that we deal with, yours included, could be like this without us knowing.
MJ obviously thought that GB was an acceptable guy to raise what was his bio daughters. Actually I read somewhere that MJ said that he and GB were close friends and he'd like to get back to that.


MOO
I lived in Jackson TN at the same time that AB lived in Jackson. I no longer live there. I live in MO. I don't have desire to be verified. I don't have inside knowledge, except that I was introduced to "Paco" on one maybe two occasions. This was at a bar in Jackson TN that had biker ride ins on Sundays. I happened to be at the same place at the same time, and knew a couple of the same people that he did, nothing more. I didn't have conversations with him, other than an informal introduction. I don't recall him even participating in the conversation. I only started on this site after this all started with the Bain family, because I previously lived in the area my entire life. I have distant relatives that are kin to several of the people mentioned in the case, but I never met any of them, and haven't seen the distant relatives since I graduated from high school. JB's mother lives in the same small town that I am from originally. Since I no longer live there, I am no longer a local.
 

MaryJaneSmith

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I get that feeling too. Aliahna's family had a whole lot of bad stuff going on, for a long time from the looks of it.
I myself, do not have so much of an issue with GB and JB thinking that AM was not a bad guy. Especially if GB had known him since he was a child and looked upon him as a son.
BUT- after the accusations of what AM did to one of the children, yeah, that does bother me that they still let the girls stay there. JMO

Sometimes we go off topic to let off a little steam. Happens a lot :)

ETA: Hmm, just to clarify-I meant I can see the Bains not having a problem with AM UP UNTIL the accusations. After that, not so much...
I agree with you. I didn't have such strong feelings until I heard the news of the DCS investigation. I had questions about why GB and JB allowed him such access to their kids. I also found it icky that GB is so much older than JB, and I know others are offended by my icky feeling, but its how I feel. After hearing of the DCS investigation, I was furious with GB. My hinky meter was already on alert, but after that news, I became convinced, and still am, that there is wayyyyyy more to this story. Waiting til 8pm to report them missing? Supposedly calling a cell phone repeatedly that was plugged in and charging next to the bed? Posting on FB for her to come back home, like JB had run away with AB or something? Telling JBs family that he didn't think they were kidnapped? JBs family said they knew something was wrong as soon as they heard that from Gary. Why was that their response? There are so many perverts in this world, and sometimes it is something that is passed on from generation to generation. Sometimes entire families participate in incestuous relationships. Many times sexual satisfaction is taught to children at a very young age and they become sex addicts, and believe that it is the rest of the world that is wrong, not the way their parents raised them. There are some really terrible things going on in this big bad world, and I guess I have become really jaded. I was fortunate as a child to never have been molested that I can recall. However, I was subjected to beatings and neglect from a terribly mean stepfather until I was 15 years old. I know how these back woods southern criminal families operate, as my mother was married into one for a long long time. I had two first cousins that were repeatedly raped by their fathers. They went on to become drug addicts, have both been gang raped, both have had long jail sentences and both have had children taken away from them. Their lives were shattered, and their children's lives were shattered, and the cycle will probably continue, all because a sick pervert thought it would be fun to make little ones into their own little sex slaves.
 

Bystander66

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Maybe GB was as terrified of AM as everyone else. It bothers me he said he didn't think they were kidnapped. It sounds as if AM might have said something to that effect. Maybe saying he would miss them so badly he just might kidnap them?

We haven't heard anything else from GB. How does MJ know GB might take them to CA? They are probably in touch with each other and trying to work things out.
 

FightTheOstrich

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I keep struggling with why AM was still welcome after the molestation allegations. What if we reverse the opinions of GB and JB. GB was almost twice JB's age, she started a family young. Perhaps AM showered her with attention. AM is a lot younger than GB and since he doesn't have any responsibilities he's great with the kids and more active than GB, a good replacement for the bio-dad of the older girls.
The allegations are made but AM convinces JB that this is just another way of GB's ex causing problems and that she is jealous of his relationship with the family. JB feels sorry for AM and is convinced he's the victim. GB disagrees and wants to cut AM out of their lives but JB sees this as him siding with his ex-wife. So he gives in and AM is presumed innocent by the family. AM shows up to help and GB's older daughter is home, she starts making accusations, JB writes them off as drama and AM sulks off and tells GB if he's not welcome he'll sleep in his car or storms off to the garage and pouts. JB and her daughter go out to the garage after GB goes to bed to apologize to AM and demands they all leave with him and that is when JB realizes he's nuts. Perhaps this type of scenario would explain why GB wasn't surprised that none of them were home the next morning/day.
Just trying to come up with a plausible scenario, not sure if I even buy into it. MOO.
 

Bystander66

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There had to be warnings of AM's volatile temper. TM had bruises.....even his own family was afraid of him......they had all known each other for such a long time. I'd said let GB and the girls get on with their lives. They need to get away from this area that holds such terrible memories for them. Social services can check on them wherever they are.
 

sparkysmom

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As far as PB goes, we know nothing of her. She could be just like the rest of the Mayes bunch, but she could be like Johnny. So far, she is the only person that seems to have tried to help these girls! She called the authorities! She did what was right! She didn't keep his dirty little family secret, she told it. She has much more credibility than others in this situation that allowed a pedo unlimited access to 3 young girls. Obviously, none of the brothers and sisters claimed his body, and are not trying to excuse his behavior or their mother's behavior.

BBM - I was wondering if I missed something. Is it documented that Gary Bain's ex-wife (AM sister) is the one who called the authorities about the leg shaving incident? I believe he had several brothers and sisters, so I was not sure if it was another sibling or if it was in fact TM that called.
 

menmo

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I lived in Jackson TN at the same time that AB lived in Jackson. I no longer live there. I live in MO. I don't have desire to be verified. I don't have inside knowledge, except that I was introduced to "Paco" on one maybe two occasions. This was at a bar in Jackson TN that had biker ride ins on Sundays. I happened to be at the same place at the same time, and knew a couple of the same people that he did, nothing more. I didn't have conversations with him, other than an informal introduction. I don't recall him even participating in the conversation. I only started on this site after this all started with the Bain family, because I previously lived in the area my entire life. I have distant relatives that are kin to several of the people mentioned in the case, but I never met any of them, and haven't seen the distant relatives since I graduated from high school. JB's mother lives in the same small town that I am from originally. Since I no longer live there, I am no longer a local.
I live in MO, too. Darn I was hoping you were local to get the real feel for the people in this case, but I guess you're happy to be removed from it.

MOO
 

melissasmom

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BBM - I was wondering if I missed something. Is it documented that Gary Bain's ex-wife (AM sister) is the one who called the authorities about the leg shaving incident? I believe he had several brothers and sisters, so I was not sure if it was another sibling or if it was in fact TM that called.

He has several siblings, but I could have sworn it was just ONE sister and the rest brothers. I may be wrong though. And it was definitely stated that that is was a sister that made the accusations and not a brother.
 

menmo

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We've heard from Johnny. Does anyone know where the other siblings of AM are? Wondering if they are up there around Johnny or scattered around.
 

epiphany

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I can honestly say I spent the night (many nights) with a very close family member and I was sexually molested by this trusted family member...no red flags for anyone to pick up on and No, I never told as I was too scared...I'm now 60 yrs old and the only person who knows is one of my sisters who is 5 years older than me. Sadly, she was sexually abused by this same family member. We only had this discussion between ourselves 3 years ago when she mentioned she didn't want to attend a family gathering because this family member was going to be there. I immediately recognized her pain and that is when we discovered that both of us had been abused by this monster. She now lives with the guilt that if she had said something maybe she could have " saved" me...I tell her no, it probably would have happened anyway as those were the days (50 years ago) that children were not believed!

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Respectfully Snipped By Me

I am close in age. In those days, my Mother and other adults referred to "them" as perverts. So did we (the neighborhood kids). My Mother (and Father) were highly educated and taught us that our bodies belonged to us, and no adult had the right to touch us.

I didn't tell. I couldn't even grasp exactly what this crap was to be frank. It was a trusted male.

When I was approaching puberty-I told (I grasped it. I had a voice. I challenged. I was able to answer back.), but I was older than I was when my earlier run-in occurred and it was a different predator-a trusted female employee.

The times were different then, but I immediately told and my Mother questioned me only very, very briefly. She left the area where she was immediately (Without me-I recall she refused to allow me to be there during her confrontation.), confronted her employee and fired her on the spot. There was not the same kind of open discussion I had with my own children when raising them, but my freedom was not curtailed.

I also recall my Mother laying into an older adult male whom likely was grooming my brothers one summer. I can recall her verbally laying him out after she noted he was supplying my brothers with bank quarter rolls (for pinball machines and pool table games, etc). He had befriended the summer group of kids and somehow he always appeared at the community center when we, the summer kids, were there without our parents. She noted that. Again, the times were different and it wasn't discussed in the same manner that I and she discussed with my children, her grandchildren.

I told my Mother about my earlier incidents only when she was in her 70s. She cried like a baby. With regard to trusted friends and family members, the child must be educated and the education needs to be ongoing and revisited and age-appropriate. The parent and child need to have open communication. However, obviously, still no guarantee.

I believe there should be no secrets. So did my Mother, and she could not have been alone. It happens. Personally, I believe discussions about sexuality should begin early-healthy, age-appropriate sexuality. The world is not made up of predominately predators and pedophiles, but they are among us and likely have always been. But children, pre-teens and teens must be allowed age-appropriate freedom and independence. Childhood, healthy sexuality and age-appropriate independence should not be destroyed nor sacrificed.

Even with an openness between parent and child, there is no guarantee one's child is safe. We are on a crime board. We are attuned to these realities for whatever reasons. Others continue to learn.

Education from an early age-an on-going education, openness between parent and child as long as possible, an openness about healthy sexuality and discussion about ownership of the child's own body as well as, IMO, a healthy disrespect or ability to challenge authority figures, can help, but again not a guarantee.
 

epiphany

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OT: My son was nearly 11 years old and in an ICU unit having a catheter inserted after a major surgery when he briefly roused from anesthesia and in a slurred voice, while attempting to fight the nurse/physician, slurred: "Get your F'n hands off me, you pervert!"

I thought I had prepared him completely for the surgery, but that was certainly not on my list of preparations.

Point being, once we comprehend, we do the best we can. And that, IMO, is good enough. It must be. I stand firm. There is no one responsible here, other than Adam, his Mommy and Teresa.
 

HaikuMommy

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I am going to play Devil's Advocate for a second.

Do parents actually wait for proof that a guy is molesting their kids before cutting him out of their kids' lives? It isn't enough to have a CPS call that he was caught nude with your child, and seeing your little girl in his FaceBook profile pic (instead of his wife)? What does it take... do you actually have to see him abusing your child with your own eyes before you deny him access to your kids? As a parent we need to take proactive steps to keep our kids safe.

Okay, rant over. Pardon me. Obviously JB and GB made an honest mistake, they never expected any harm to come to their kids, or to JB herself. I am just frustrated that AM got to shred this family and trying to pinpoint how it could have been avoided is really just a defense mechanism.
 

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I don't want my children to grow up afraid of life entirely. I want them to enjoy the beach and feel competent to try new things. I want them to try surfing at some point, if they want to -- even though it makes me nervous to think about! Yes, it is a fine line raising kids to be independent, active, and confident without taking too many risks.

I am an EXTREMELY cautious mom because of the things I have learned on not only WB, but because of my not defunct blog 'Southern Sass".

Just last year, my son taught me that my obsessive behavior regarding him wasn't obsessive but teaching.

We were at a river, that many of our friend have been to. Many of these children of our friends had jumped off these rocks at this 'park'. My son was hesitant although you could tell he really wanted to jump too.

I told him, "Would I let you do anything I thought you would get hurt at?" He smiled and jumped! I was soooo exicted!

He knows! As every child should know, not only is their instinct right, but their parents are their to protect them as well.
 

raineday

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MJ stated on his Fb page that after much thought and consideration, he has come to the conclusion that he doesn't have it in his heart to separate AB from her sister but that he does wish to sit down with GB and work something out. (Presumably visits, IMO.)

He has publicly admitted (on FB) that he knows he made mistakes with his daughters. It's horrible that sometimes it takes a tragedy to realize how much mistakes have cost you, as I believe sadly is the case here. I believe he is in deep mourning over the loss of both AB and JB and will probably live his entire life with gut-wrenching regret and heartache. Whatever his reasons for giving up legal custody, nobody deserves that.

It's natural and easy for us to judge situations and relationships which we know very little about. But in reality, the fact that he isn't the legal father doesn't change that he (along with his side of the family) is suffering from this horrific tragedy.

The interest of the two surviving girls should obviously should be placed first and foremost. I believe that GB and MJ both have good hearts and will continue to take any and all steps necessary to put AB and KB on the path to recovery and healing. I believe that they are surrounded my so much love and support and, although the path will be tough, these brave little girls are going to be okay.

MOO
 

Roxye

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Education from an early age-an on-going education, openness between parent and child as long as possible, an openness about healthy sexuality and discussion about ownership of the child's own body as well as, IMO, a healthy disrespect or ability to challenge authority figures, can help, but again not a guarantee.


Because of my unhealthy relationship with my step-father, I made it a point from the time my son could understand, to explain sex in terms HE could understand. If someone touches you in a way you don't like, even me or daddy, TELL US, or me, or your aunt, uncle or grandparents! If you don't like how someone is even looking at you, TELL ME! If it is me, TELL DADDY! I have been obsessive in a degree with my son, because all I have been through and all that I have researched and written about, but I am not sad. Nik KNOWS! Thank GOD! He knows. If anyone ever made this child feel uncomfortable he would scream like a girl in a horror movie!
 

GrainneDhu

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I don't take offense to your post... but I also choose to live my life and raise my children in a way that is very cautious -- but not quite paranoid. It is a fine edge we have to walk.

If the buffet had a long line, and I suspected I would be gone longer than 30 seconds, I'd have her come with me. But if I can see her while I walk over there, and see her while I walk back, but for 30 seconds I'd be dishing up some more salad, I can picture me doing that.

Do you advocate never letting children have sleepovers, even if you know the other child's parents well? Or even if it is your own brother and his wife? Even if they are 14 years old? (I am actually torn on this... sometimes no matter how nice people are, or how long I've known them, I say "no" because it just plain makes me nervous.) I am truly sorry that bad things have happened in your life, but I don't necessarily think the answer is to completely shelter children.

I take my eyes off my child for 30 seconds at a time in public regularly... when reading a label at a grocery store, for example, or when talking to the pharmacist, or when attending to the skinned knee of my other child. It happens. And yes, sometimes they can get hurt or in trouble in just 30 seconds. There are times when I watch them obsessively -- around water, or when there is someone around who makes me uncomfortable, for example.

Drowning is the #1 cause of death for kids under 5. Should we not go to the beach at all until they are older? Or should we just be extra cautious? I don't want my children to grow up afraid of life entirely. I want them to enjoy the beach and feel competent to try new things. I want them to try surfing at some point, if they want to -- even though it makes me nervous to think about! Yes, it is a fine line raising kids to be independent, active, and confident without taking too many risks.

BBM

Fifty years ago, swimming classes were for children 7 years and older.

My (much younger) brother was fearless, an early walker and attracted to any body of water. He was a skinny kid because he was so active, so when he jumped in the water, he sank like a stone. He had absolutely no fear of the water at all.

So my mom found a solution: rather than spend all her time trying to keep him from the water (while ignoring her other two children), she scoured the town until she found a life guard willing to give a 3 year old swimming lessons.

Problem solved.

He was still fearless, he was still incredibly attracted to any body of water but he had the skills to survive the experience.

I think my mama was a very wise woman and the older I get, the more I appreciate that her ways of dealing with problems were usually applicable to more than just the one problem.

My brother did survive to adulthood, he's now a Ph.D and a leading researcher at an Ivy League university. One of the reasons he's a great researcher is that he has no fear of failure at all. If an experiment fails, his attitude is "now I know what doesn't work."
 

GrainneDhu

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I love this post. Just thanking it was not enough. We all wish that we could just put our kids in a bubble so we can protect them from everything. But then you would end up with a big old baby in a bubble who can't cope with life (or have experienced all the fun stuff in life). It is so hard to do. But in the long run you are hurting your children if you go (what I consider) overboard.

Thanks, HaikuMommy

Or you end up with my BFF. His mother is scared of life and had huge control issues (for very good reasons stemming from massive childhood trauma but that still doesn't mean it was good for her to inflict them on her kids).

My BFF is an incredible daredevil. The day he turned 18, he walked out of his parents' house and joined the Army. Both because he needed money (his mother never let him have a job as a teen because she was afraid of every single job he ever wanted to apply for) and because he needed to make a statement about his own independence.

He couldn't wait to become a door gunner because that's the position with the highest injury/mortality rates. When he got a chance to become a sniper (another risky position), he leapt at it.

He served two tours in Iraq, one under Bush I, the other under Bush II.

He retired from the military and to scratch his itch for adventure, he's taken up parkour. That's a sport where people go up and over things that are normally obstacles in a city. Like whole buildings.

I do have a certain amount of sympathy for his mother. I'm sure that every time he does something that is outside of her comfort zone (which is, oh, maybe 99% of the time) she is seized with this terrible fear. And it must tear at her heart that he cannot tolerate living any closer than half a continent away from her. None of her kids can.

But... she is the one who pushed him into becoming a daredevil. She's the one who pushes him away every time she lectures him by phone. Or calls sobbing because she's afraid of what she thinks he might do next.

She needed to get therapy a long time before he was born and she has refused to even consider it. She thinks she's the only sane one and the rest of the world is crazy. And she thinks the craziest one is her own son.

She's afraid of the world and she would have been perfectly happy if her children had been afraid of the world as well.
 

GrainneDhu

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He has several siblings, but I could have sworn it was just ONE sister and the rest brothers. I may be wrong though. And it was definitely stated that that is was a sister that made the accusations and not a brother.

Do you have a link for that?

The articles I've read just say "a family member" which could be the sister, wife, mother or father.
 
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