TN TN - Karen Swift, 44, Dyersburg, 30 Oct 2011 - #2

[panthera]

Thinking about it, she picked up her daughter and had to settle her in before she could leave. That is, there is no way that she could have really scheduled a meeting time. If she were meeting someone, she and that person would have exchanged numbers, and had contact at the time that she left the house - that makes a lot more sense. Since there is no contact with anyone between 2 and 5, I doubt she left for a pre-arranged meeting at the end of the driveway where she inexplicably got a flat tire at the same time, and then disappeared.

I doubt that she left the house to buy medicine. She had two children, 6 and 9, and there would most likely always be basic medicine in the house. Furthermore, her daughter was sleeping and wasn't complaining or asking for medicine.

There is no logical reason for her to leave the house between 2 and 5, therefore, in my humble opinion, she did not leave the house on her own strength.

With this, I agree. I have serious doubts Karen left the house on her own, however, have tried to figure out any other possible scenario. Also recall the friend who was on NG's program stating Karen wasn't interested in a new relationship, therefore I can't imagine her leaving her sick child to go meet anyone that morning. And yes, most responsible parents would already have some type of medicine for their children on hand. Even if she didn't, there wouldn't be a need to go to the store before the children even awakened.

With that said, what it basically leaves us with is something happening to her inside the house, and the rest of the scene is staged to look like she was abducted near her car. It would be very helpful to know about the flat tire, to either confirm or refute this scenario.

MOO

 

[otto]

With this, I agree. I have serious doubts Karen left the house on her own, however, have tried to figure out any other possible scenario. Also recall the friend who was on NG's program stating Karen wasn't interested in a new relationship, therefore I can't imagine her leaving her sick child to go meet anyone that morning. And yes, most responsible parents would already have some type of medicine for their children on hand. Even if she didn't, there wouldn't be a need to go to the store before the children even awakened.

With that said, what it basically leaves us with is something happening to her inside the house, and the rest of the scene is staged to look like she was abducted near her car. It would be very helpful to know about the flat tire, to either confirm or refute this scenario.

MOO

That's where I'm at with everything we've heard so far - that basically something happened to her in the house ... which is part of the reason I would like photos or even a hand sketch of the house layout so I can build a floor plan. I suspect it's important in terms of understanding whether she would have been at the bottom of the stairs - presumably at the front door - in the middle of the night, proximity from stairs to bedroom to garage to vehicle ... whether it's all plausible.

The flat tire could be anything, and given that she was out earlier in the evening - anything less than a slashed tire would not tell us too much, other than perhaps she drove over a nail.

 

[LindaG]

I was wondering about the charges against the RSOs. I wanted to see what kinds of crimes they had committed and if their modus operandi fit with the disappearance of Karen Swift.

What I found is that many of the RSOs are older, some convictions date back between 10 and 30 years. Charges varied. Some were charged with incest, some were caregivers charged with molesting persons in their charge, some were females, some were statutory rape, and some domestic abuse. Very few seemed the type to commit a kidnapping that left no clues and no evidence. Tara Bull - I am not sure which RSOs live closest to the Swift residence. I may be way off base. Thanks


I don't believe that Karen left the house that night. I don't think she had plans to meet someone. She told her friends she had no interest in dating, but wanted to focus on making a new life for herself and her daughters.

I don't believe that she was stalked by someone who broke in and carried her off without anyone noticing. I think someone unfamiliar with the house and grounds would have left more evidence, both in the home and in her car.

Regarding the neighbor who was accused of poisoning dogs, Mr. Hogshooter His car and home were searched by LE and produced no evidence relating to commission of a crime. Which raises another question: Swift's dog, a lab, was poisoned on 10/7. The dog was taken to the vet and kept overnight for observation and released the next day. My question is: if it was a break-in with a stranger abduction, did the dog bark?

 

[LindaG]

Otto- This is strictly a hunch, but the sheriff reported that the husband admits talking to his wife on the landing, when she got home. She got home around 1:30, with the girls. Perhaps he met her at the door and since he was not expecting the girls to be coming home that night, he may have inquired about that. I didn't get the impression that they talked at the bottom of the stairs at 5:00 a.m. I think things heated up quickly after she got home.

But I agree, a layout of the house would help clarify things.

 

[panthera]

That's where I'm at with everything we've heard so far - that basically something happened to her in the house ... which is part of the reason I would like photos or even a hand sketch of the house layout so I can build a floor plan. I suspect it's important in terms of understanding whether she would have been at the bottom of the stairs - presumably at the front door - in the middle of the night, proximity from stairs to bedroom to garage to vehicle ... whether it's all plausible.

The flat tire could be anything, and given that she was out earlier in the evening - anything less than a slashed tire would not tell us too much, other than perhaps she drove over a nail.

Most of us wouldn't think much of a flat tire, as you said, she could have run over a nail or had a slow leak. However, the information regarding this vehicle stated it apparently has a warning system indicating low tire pressure. That is why it's interesting, in my opinion, if the warning system had been on earlier in the evening and she ignored it, or if the tire was punctured at the side of the road.

I agree, more information regarding the layout of the house would be interesting.

MOO

 

[otto]

If both girls were scheduled to be away at a sleepover I doubt Karen was planning on spending the night at home - she left town when divorce papers were served, so there's much doubt that she would have stayed alone with her husband without the children. If only the 6 year old was home that night, it's a different situation - and location of bedrooms to garage makes a big difference.

Perhaps that's where this story didn't make sense in the beginning ... where was she planning to stay if the children were away, and was that the one and only night where she was particularly vulnerable; alone with her husband, no one had to be at work or school the following day? The disappearance was at first, for me, a little confusing where I was wondering whether she was really still living at the house - meaning she could have left by choice in the middle of the night. That no longer seems possible.

I'm still wondering when police were first contacted about her disappearance ... the car was seen by 5:30 AM, the daughter woke up at 6 AM, extended family was notified at 4 PM ... who called police and when?

 

[LindaG]

Otto said: "I'm still wondering when police were first contacted about her disappearance ... the car was seen by 5:30 AM, the daughter woke up at 6 AM, extended family was notified at 4 PM ... who called police and when??

Otto- I did a search and got two answers: one said that police were notified by the husband; and another source reports that husband first notified Karen's friends and they called police. No times were given.

 

[belimom]

Most of us wouldn't think much of a flat tire, as you said, she could have run over a nail or had a slow leak. However, the information regarding this vehicle stated it apparently has a warning system indicating low tire pressure. That is why it's interesting, in my opinion, if the warning system had been on earlier in the evening and she ignored it, or if the tire was punctured at the side of the road.

I agree, more information regarding the layout of the house would be interesting.

MOO

Regarding the flat tire, it takes awhile for a tire to go flat (in my experience). It must have been fine when she drove the girl(s) home, unless she ran over something on the way. But she would have noticed it being flat as soon as she started driving out of her driveway. She drove less than a mile - which isn't enough time for a tire to go so flat that you leave it. You can drive home on a low tire.

 

[otto]

Otto said: "I'm still wondering when police were first contacted about her disappearance ... the car was seen by 5:30 AM, the daughter woke up at 6 AM, extended family was notified at 4 PM ... who called police and when??

Otto- I did a search and got two answers: one said that police were notified by the husband; and another source reports that husband first notified Karen's friends and they called police. No times were given.

Thanks!

 

[Indy Anna]

Because Hogshooter allegedly poisoned Swift's dog and lives in close proximity to her residence, investigators impounded his vehicle and searched his home after she went missing. Authorities did not find any items connecting him to Swift's disappearance and do not consider him a suspect.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/1...n_1084468.html

Respectfully, because someone isn't named as a suspect doesn't mean they're cleared. Right? In other cases, LE has claimed that someone close to the case isn't considered a suspect, but later that person is charged with the crime (usually, after being arrested for an unrelated crime).

LE is still analyzing the evidence they've collected and haven't named a suspect, so it wouldn't be surprising if they don't currently have evidence that directly links one person to the crime. It takes a while to get the results of DNA evidence from the lab.

ETA: The same comment was made about DS:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/mother-missing-tennessee/story?id=14867155#.TtCBl3LZeuI

Swift is in the process of getting divorced and her husband has been interviewed by police and is not considered a suspect.

 

[Indy Anna]

http://abcnews.go.com/US/mother-missing-tennessee/story?id=14867155#.TtCBl3LZeuI

Swift's father Gary Johnson, 67, told ABCNews.com that the family is "worried to death" and that Swift's four children—two boys and two girls—are devastated.

"She had never missed a day since they can remember that she wasn't there to wake them up at 6 a.m.," Johnson said.

Swift's two sons are in college and her daughters are 7 and 9 years old. Johnson said his youngest granddaughter "just cries" and "won't hardly eat."

"She is a great mom and works hard," Johnson said. "She's a sweet person, real nice, gets along with everybody."

I just can't imagine KS's disappearance being an "inside job." Why would someone who loves those kids want to hurt someone they dearly love, knowing how heartbroken they would be? If it was premeditated, why go through with those plans knowing that the children were in the house? It also would have meant that the children - including a sick child - were in the house alone for the period of time that the body was disposed of. I'm not saying it's not possible...it's just that it would be terribly callous and selfish of a parent not to be concerned about his own children's safety, health, comfort and emotional well-being.

 

[~greeneyedgirl~]

Sorry wrong thread


Sent from my iPhone using Taptalk

 

[tarabull]

Nov 1 article states that Box said Karen's friends reported her missing and her car was found on Millsfield Highway. This report also says Karen was last seen at her home at 1:30 am. It continues on saying that she arrived home late sat early sun morning and dropped the kids off at her house - this is also when they say stbx saw her in the stairwell and then went to bed, this is the last time he saw her.(Reports in chronological order at the link below never say a time again, they only say she was last seen in her home early Sunday morning.)

Also,

Nov 11 article states that LE believe her vehicle was headed into Dyersburg but had a flat and pulled across the oncoming lane to park in the opposite direction.

http://www.stategazette.com/topic/karenswift

Unfortunately, I still can't say who was driving but I hope Box and his crew are forming a crystal clear picture.

illowfight:
:bedtime:

[ETA: There's something VERY wrong with the story from Nov 1 saying Karen dropped the kids off because we have heard the daughter has said she woke up and her mother was gone! Is that not true?? Or do we have a change in someone's story because of something said by the daughter??!! Now how am I supposed to sleep???!!!!!!]

 

[katydid23]

http://abcnews.go.com/US/mother-missing-tennessee/story?id=14867155#.TtCBl3LZeuI



I just can't imagine KS's disappearance being an "inside job." Why would someone who loves those kids want to hurt someone they dearly love, knowing how heartbroken they would be? If it was premeditated, why go through with those plans knowing that the children were in the house? It also would have meant that the children - including a sick child - were in the house alone for the period of time that the body was disposed of. I'm not saying it's not possible...it's just that it would be terribly callous and selfish of a parent not to be concerned about his own children's safety, health, comfort and emotional well-being.

I have no idea if KS's husband is involved or not. I do have some suspicions just because of statistics and past cases. But I can think of a possible answer to your question of :
"Why would someone who loves those kids want to hurt someone they dearly love, knowing how heartbroken they would be? "

Often, when facing a divorce and a fear of separation from their children, one parent may become jealous of their spouses' close relationship to the children. He/she may imagine how close they will become to the kids if the other parent is taken away. By getting rid of his wife, the father becomes the only parent left and their shoulder to cry on. Oh yes, and no court costs or custody battles or new stepfathers or child support payments. And you get to keep the house.

Also, when a couple begins to separate the kids get very confused and often act out. Sometimes they take one parents side over the other. For all we know, the kids may have begun to do that already. Sometimes that is a big trigger in this kind of reaction.

 

[Indy Anna]

I have a feeling LE has narrowed down the field of suspects:

http://www.stategazette.com/story/1788118.html

Sheriff Box advised his department is conducting this missing person case as a criminal investigation with foul play involved, just as if they have a criminal suspect and will continue doing that unless foul play is ruled out. He also stated it is always critical to an investigation that they control when a potential suspect becomes aware of the evidence they hold against him or her. And by holding the evidence close to an investigation helps prevent potential suspects from being able to impede the investigation by developing false alibis, statements or destroying forensic evidence to avoid prosecution.

 

[katydid23]

Nov 1 article states that Box said Karen's friends reported her missing and her car was found on Millsfield Highway. This report also says Karen was last seen at her home at 1:30 am. It continues on saying that she arrived home late sat early sun morning and dropped the kids off at her house - this is also when they say stbx saw her in the stairwell and then went to bed, this is the last time he saw her.(Reports in chronological order at the link below never say a time again, they only say she was last seen in her home early Sunday morning.)

Also,

Nov 11 article states that LE believe her vehicle was headed into Dyersburg but had a flat and pulled across the oncoming lane to park in the opposite direction.

http://www.stategazette.com/topic/karenswift

Unfortunately, I still can't say who was driving but I hope Box and his crew are forming a crystal clear picture.

illowfight:
:bedtime:

[ETA: There's something VERY wrong with the story from Nov 1 saying Karen dropped the kids off because we have heard the daughter has said she woke up and her mother was gone! Is that not true?? Or do we have a change in someone's story because of something said by the daughter??!! Now how am I supposed to sleep???!!!!!!]

BBM

I remember it that way as well. Which has always made me wonder how she ended up driving around the neighborhood instead. If she laid down to sleep with her child, at nearly 2 am, what would get her out of bed and on the road? I do not buy the ' she needed medicine' scenario. The only thing she would need for a sick child before sunrise would be something for a high fever, but we have heard nothing about either of the girl's having one. And she could have sent Dad for that. Buying Tylenol at 3 am is a Dad's job, if he is home. imoo

 

[SmoothOperator]

I agree with the automatic Internet connection. It would do this if she had her email to "push" every so often(my options are every hour, every four hours, or manually).. Whatever setting the email push was set to would be how intermittently the phone would connect to the internet to check and download any new emails..

I also have the mymobilerecovery on my phone that will connect to internet Intermittenly to run a gps update of my location..

I've got an iPhone.. It'd be interesting to know what type smartphone Karen had.. If a newer one like the iPhone it can pinpoint to the tee where that phone was last powered down/batteries removed/chunked in river.. I supposed they pinpointed That spot and searched it and it's immediate area working their way out.. Wonder what that location was? How close to the river?

 

[belimom]

BBM

I remember it that way as well. Which has always made me wonder how she ended up driving around the neighborhood instead. If she laid down to sleep with her child, at nearly 2 am, what would get her out of bed and on the road? I do not buy the ' she needed medicine' scenario. The only thing she would need for a sick child before sunrise would be something for a high fever, but we have heard nothing about either of the girl's having one. And she could have sent Dad for that. Buying Tylenol at 3 am is a Dad's job, if he is home. imoo

I completely agree. Also think of what a busy day she probably already had: getting herself ready for a party, getting the girl(s) ready for a sleepover/party, costumes, etc. Then to finally come home in the wee hours of the morning, climb into bed with your child, and go to sleep. I have young children and when we go to sleep, we're out for good.

I don't think she left that house on her own.

 

[Joe Friday]

http://abcnews.go.com/US/mother-missing-tennessee/story?id=14867155#.TtCBl3LZeuI



I just can't imagine KS's disappearance being an "inside job." Why would someone who loves those kids want to hurt someone they dearly love, knowing how heartbroken they would be? If it was premeditated, why go through with those plans knowing that the children were in the house? It also would have meant that the children - including a sick child - were in the house alone for the period of time that the body was disposed of. I'm not saying it's not possible...it's just that it would be terribly callous and selfish of a parent not to be concerned about his own children's safety, health, comfort and emotional well-being.

On the other hand why would a mother leave the house knowing she has a sick child? It just doesn't make sense IMO.

 

[otto]

Nov 1 article states that Box said Karen's friends reported her missing and her car was found on Millsfield Highway. This report also says Karen was last seen at her home at 1:30 am. It continues on saying that she arrived home late sat early sun morning and dropped the kids off at her house - this is also when they say stbx saw her in the stairwell and then went to bed, this is the last time he saw her.(Reports in chronological order at the link below never say a time again, they only say she was last seen in her home early Sunday morning.)

Also,

Nov 11 article states that LE believe her vehicle was headed into Dyersburg but had a flat and pulled across the oncoming lane to park in the opposite direction.

http://www.stategazette.com/topic/karenswift

Unfortunately, I still can't say who was driving but I hope Box and his crew are forming a crystal clear picture.

illowfight:
:bedtime:

[ETA: There's something VERY wrong with the story from Nov 1 saying Karen dropped the kids off because we have heard the daughter has said she woke up and her mother was gone! Is that not true?? Or do we have a change in someone's story because of something said by the daughter??!! Now how am I supposed to sleep???!!!!!!]

I think there has been confusion about whether she dropped off the children or came home - stemming mostly from the fact that she had filed for divorce. I assumed that there was a possibility that she left again because she was no longer staying at the house, but it now seems clear that she was still living in the house even though she had filed for divorce.

The picture I'm getting is that she arrived home with both girls at about 1:30 AM. Her husband was awake when she arrived and spoke to her from the top of the stairs. She then went to bed downstairs with one of the children, and he went to bed upstairs. At 6 AM her daughter noticed that she was not in bed, but it's possible that her daughter went back to sleep. Sometime later, someone tried to contact Karen, couldn't reach her, and eventually one of the friends contacted police to report that she was missing. This could have happened closer to 4 PM to coincide with the time that Karen's extended family was notified.

We know that at 5 AM the neighbor saw her unlocked car on Millsfield Hwy, 1/4 mile from the house. The tire was flat. The possibilities that she had a rendezvous, or was shopping in the middle of the night are very unlikely. The possibility that she would park her car 1/4 mile from the house rather than drive the short distance home on the flat seem very unlikely.

Two possibilities: Karen left the car there, her husband left it there. I would really like to know if her pyjamas were found in the house, as that would clarify whether she got up, dressed and was leaving or whether it was staged. The car seems staged ... and hiding the clothes in nearby bushes seems staged. If someone was going to put Karen in the river, her clothes would have been thrown away at the river too ... so the fact that the clothes and car are near the house ... probably means Karen is there too. Random attackers don't usually bother to hide clothes separate from a body ... that makes no sense.