TN TN - Karen Swift, 44, Dyersburg, 30 Oct 2011 - #3

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I wouldn't even attempt to go into that stuff in the summer...and in the fall it would take a full suit of Carhartts with a hood, work boots and gloves!! I didn't grow up around kudzu, but around woods and remember one time in my teens moving vines on my travels and met a snake chest high curled up in them. Amazing how your not scared of anything when a child vs a teen/adult. LOL, but imagine there are moccasins, copperheads and prolly a few rattlers in that area; not to mention ticks. I lived in the TN/NC area for 2 years and it was unreal how it just takes over in summer. Someone is missing a good market, imo as it would be perfect for animal feed or to try to convert into fuel. Never could figure that one out..... since it grows vertically as well and wouldn't take as much farmland as corn to grow. It's full of nutrition. God knows the south and the back areas of much of the region could use it for income/revenue...(instead of pot growing)

Kudzu was brought up in the Palmgren case (Signal Mtn, TN) thinking her jeep went off the road and was swallowed up for the season. Unfortunately it was a cliff with a 350' drop and deciduous trees hiding her.

I'm seeing pajamas mentioned quite a bit and curious if that is something from the MSM or are we just speculating on them atm? I don't need a link, if in MSM....just curious. TIA I wonder about his use of crutches again also...if he becaume tangled in the kudzu or maybe she tried to fight him off...she was little, but in good condition. Much more flexible than he was.

I read something, somewhere ... I think it came from the son ... that Karen returned home with her daughter, put on her pyjamas and went to bed with her daughter. If that's the case, and she went out again, then the pyjamas should be either at home or on her. We haven't heard anymore more about the pyjamas, but I'm curious.
 
I see on one of the public FB pages, there has been a fund set up to pay for Karen's funeral expenses...one person comments that she works with DS and that they have insurance for this sort of thing, and that money should not be an issue, unless in a trust for the kids...I totally agree...JMO

I am just bothered by the instant call-out for funds when someone is murdered...I guess it may be partly a reflex action as people want to do something, but I wonder if anyone actually makes sure in these cases that the money is properly used and accounted for, JMOJMOJMO
 
Thanks OldSteve.
I have an alarm and a dog, but she just barks. Rescue doggy:)
He knew I was a "her" because he had approached me when I was getting my mail about a week ago.
Gave me a strange feeling then.
Told the police and the home owners' association website.
I think he is a dangerous predator with a mental disorder.
I have a gun and a stun baton, but you can't be alert every second.
I know if you point a gun at someone you should use it.
I have a feeling Karen was also a caring and friendly woman.
Alert to her surroundings yet worried about helping others as much as she could.
Helping out nowadays is so important in this economy, but it can get you killed.
JMO:twocents:

So sad...and so true. You can't even enjoy leaving your windows open on a nice breezy day or night. I got to the point of never leaving my garage door open and made sure I locked the house up even to just do yard work. It's a shame. I never answer the door unless it's someone I know. Had a mentally disabled man show up at my door and verbally rambling. He had slipped away from his family care taker and was wanting to come in the house to get away from "Pat"... I never opened the screen door and called LE. That did it for me. Take care and stay aware.
 
Regarding a conversation on the previous thread about a hearing, since she filed for divorce three weeks before disappearing... I looked at the TN law and just like in Georgia, the other party has 30 days to respond before an initial hearing is set. Seems like there can be emergency arrangements but only in cases of domestic violence/restraining orders.

Hope this helps!

http://www.wtls.org/images/Family/What You Need to Know About DivorceIII.pdf

Thanks for the link! I would say that there's a big gaping hole in the divorce law. If the petitioner for divorce is broke, the fee for filing the papers and the cost of a lawyer is waived or covered, but there is nothing in place to ensure that the petitioner has funds for cost of living until at least 30 days after the divorce application is made. If the spouse contests the terms, then there is more delay. The petitioner has to more or less prove that there is abuse before he or she can get some financial relief or protection, but I suspect many couples don't want to take that route if it can be avoided. Without alleging abuse, Karen seems to have had no choice but to wait it out until the thirty days had passed ... and she had no where to go and no way to properly support herself and her daughters in the interim.
 
Thanks for the link! I would say that there's a big gaping hole in the divorce law. If the petitioner for divorce is broke, the fee for filing the papers and the cost of a lawyer is waived or covered, but there is nothing in place to ensure that the petitioner has funds for cost of living until at least 30 days after the divorce application is made. If the spouse contests the terms, then there is more delay. The petitioner has to more or less prove that there is abuse before he or she can get some financial relief or protection, but I suspect many couples don't want to take that route if it can be avoided. Without alleging abuse, Karen seems to have had no choice but to wait it out until the thirty days had passed ... and she had no where to go and no way to properly support herself and her daughters in the interim.

I guess a woman's shelter would be an option for some women...not sure if they have to "prove" abuse, if they indicate they are in fear...but in any case this may not have been something Karen was comfortable in doing, or in taking her children to a shelter...but does anyone know if she or other women in her situation could have done so?
 
One of the biggest clues in this will be whether or not Karen was sexually assaulted. If she was, then it very well could be a predator or a case of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. If she was not sexually assaulted and she was not robbed, then it's likely a case of domestic violence. What would be in it for a random predator to kill a woman, hide her body, and stage the scene it if they aren't 'getting anything out of it'?

The most important points, in my opinion, are:

1) Whether or not Karen was sexually assaulted;
2) The fact that her clothing was hidden beneath brush tell me that the scene was staged by somebody. If they staged one thing (the clothing), then they also likely staged another (the car.)
3) The location of her body tells me that the person who did it was in a big rush, and didn't have time to better conceal it. That person likely pulled up that graveyard driveway, placed Karen into the kudzo while the car was still running, then high-tailed it home.

I cannot bring myself to believe that she left the house on her own even though her daughter was sick. I also cannot bring myself to believe that it's a satanic ritual. What satanic rituals involve staging a scene to paint a different story?

I hope I'm wrong, but in my opinion, the suspect in her murder is crystal clear. I truly hope I'm wrong.
 
Having gone thru divorce here in TN I can tell you that it's horrible getting the other spouse out of the home.
I owned the home prior to marriage and he went to stay with another woman.
So I had the locks changed. And he broke in a window when I was gone. Repeat, repeat, repeat.
Called police each time. They said it would take a court order.
Finally after coming and going from the house, while I stayed w/my parents, he got a place for him and her and quit coming in.
(hard to believe we get along today...)
Since they had kids together, her lawyer should have petitioned for emergency support.
We don't know if the lawyer had time to file for this yet.
I know you can file for divorce w/out a lawyer.
Does anyone know if Karen had a divorce attorney?
TIA
 
Well, we can be sure LE knows if she was found wearing her PJ's or any other clothing, and by now, they know whether or not she was sexually assaulted. They may be waiting for DNA (hoping). If she wasn't sexually assaulted, and depending on the cause of death, I agree that a random psycho is very very unlikely.
 
Otto, I rather think that he decided to "need" crutches at the time of Karen's disappearance in order to give the impression to law enforcement that he would be incapable of having caused said disappearance.

I do not for one second believe that he truly NEEDED those crutches. I firmly believe that they were used as part of a facade.


With all due respect, I think the opposite would be true. moo

To see him on crutches days after his wife goes missing is suspicious. That would be as incriminating as if he had scratch marks on his face.

DS had surgery on his patella/kneecap in April of 2011. After 8 weeks recovery at home, he could have returned to his job and would continue to improve over the next six months. By the time, Karen went missing, he would have been nearly completely recovered.

Some of the things that can interfere with, or reverse the healing process and necessitate the use of crutches, would be activities such as, jumping, rotation or twisting of the joint, walking on uneven terrain, and lifting over 40 pounds. All cases are treated individually and are dependent on age, condition and expectation of the patient.

I'm just sayin :cow:
 
Interesting. The husband had a knee injury in May where he injured a tendon on the patella ... the knee cap. At the end of October, he was suddenly again on cruthces? It takes 6 months to recover from knee surgery, but without the need for surgery it should heal faster and certainly 6 months after the injury he should have been off the crutches. What secondary injury did he have around the time that Karen was murdered?

Is it possible that someone stumbled a little into the kudzu to heave/throw a body into the vines and she would sink to the ground? She would become another host for the vines, I suppose, and the shadow creatures, like rats. I couldn't imagine living in a place like that ... with rat and noxious weed infestations.

Well, kudzu mainly grows along roadsides or out in waste places like this. It doesn't seed itself into yards, thank goodness. I hate ragweed and hedges just as much and those are imported from Europe, LOL. And our natural wild grapes and poison ivy vines are just as rank and weedy.

And really, rats live everywhere in the world. Some are imported, some are native. They are part of the food chain for other animals.
 
With all due respect, I think the opposite would be true. moo

To see him on crutches days after his wife goes missing is suspicious. That would be as incriminating as if he had scratch marks on his face.

DS had surgery on his patella/kneecap in April of 2011. After 8 weeks recovery at home, he could have returned to his job and would continue to improve over the next six months. By the time, Karen went missing, he would have been nearly completely recovered.

Some of the things that can interfere with, or reverse the healing process and necessitate the use of crutches, would be activities such as, jumping, rotation or twisting of the joint, walking on uneven terrain, and lifting over 40 pounds. All cases are treated individually and are dependent on age, condition and expectation of the patient.

I'm just sayin :cow:

I completely agree. Six months is plenty of time to be active again, although there is still a fear of re-injury at that time. I can understand that the husband would have been gradually resuming regular activities, so a full re-injury after 6 months suggests he either did something really careless, or he did something like carried a body into the kudzu.
 
Well, kudzu mainly grows along roadsides or out in waste places like this. It doesn't seed itself into yards, thank goodness. I hate ragweed and hedges just as much and those are imported from Europe, LOL. And our natural wild grapes and poison ivy vines are just as rank and weedy.

And really, rats live everywhere in the world. Some are imported, some are native. They are part of the food chain for other animals.

....and field mice, hedgehogs, moles, possums and any number of other foul critter folk in the country.
 
Well, kudzu mainly grows along roadsides or out in waste places like this. It doesn't seed itself into yards, thank goodness. I hate ragweed and hedges just as much and those are imported from Europe, LOL. And our natural wild grapes and poison ivy vines are just as rank and weedy.

And really, rats live everywhere in the world. Some are imported, some are native. They are part of the food chain for other animals.

There actually are parts of the world that are rat free ... strange but true.
 
But that isn't the only thing that could cause it to act up. Anytime an injury occurs that is disabilitating, usually therapy and a warning to not over do it follows. If he didn't follow doctors orders after the injury and didn't allow enough time for proper healing, before resuming normal activities, that could also cause a flare up of an old injury.
Also kudzu is not the only uneven ground one could walk on. Just saying, stepping on a gopher hole, tripping over an extension cord, a mis-step off a ladder or any other everyday occurance could be the cause. If I had a dollar for every time I twisted an ankle due to uneven ground that was not overgrown with kudzu I'd be a rich man.

While searching articles about the exact date of husband's surgery, I was reading comments at the end of the article and one was addressed to the husband by someone who claimed to know the family and to have been at the bonfire party at Karen's house, either the night before or the week before the Halloween party Karen went to.

I had read about the bonfire party but this guy claims that DS was hopping on and off the tractor, with no difficulty, throwing logs on the fire, etc. The guy said DS was the picture of health. This guy also claims that Karen told him if she ever turns up dead, that her husband did it.

The guy also said that DS has a private laptop that LE doesn't know about and never confiscated. Other claims were that DS was seen arguing with a blond and that DS grew up without parents and doesn't have any feelings for his kids losing their mother. moo

Now I KNOW this is unsubstantiated, and is possibly no more than opinion of somebody who has no credibility, but it does offer an interesting perspective, which we can consider with a grain of salt. moo

I'm just sayin' :cow:
 
Did LE check the husband's cell phone records? Just a thought, perhaps he left, called her at their home phone to say his car had broken down and asking her to come get him? She arrived, he forced her into his car, took her somewhere and killed her, and then came back to her car to make it look like she had broken down and a stranger abducted her. Maybe that was what the google search on her phone was, to find the location where her husband said he broke down at.
 
One of the biggest clues in this will be whether or not Karen was sexually assaulted. If she was, then it very well could be a predator or a case of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. If she was not sexually assaulted and she was not robbed, then it's likely a case of domestic violence. What would be in it for a random predator to kill a woman, hide her body, and stage the scene it if they aren't 'getting anything out of it'?

The most important points, in my opinion, are:

1) Whether or not Karen was sexually assaulted;
2) The fact that her clothing was hidden beneath brush tell me that the scene was staged by somebody. If they staged one thing (the clothing), then they also likely staged another (the car.)
3) The location of her body tells me that the person who did it was in a big rush, and didn't have time to better conceal it. That person likely pulled up that graveyard driveway, placed Karen into the kudzo while the car was still running, then high-tailed it home.

I cannot bring myself to believe that she left the house on her own even though her daughter was sick. I also cannot bring myself to believe that it's a satanic ritual. What satanic rituals involve staging a scene to paint a different story?

I hope I'm wrong, but in my opinion, the suspect in her murder is crystal clear. I truly hope I'm wrong.

Don't think sexual assault (unless DNA is recovered) tells us much. Seen many cases where the husband will rape his wife before killing her out of anger that he's been denied and/or in trying to stage a crime scene....
be interesting if there is a specific statistic about this...

http://www.aardvarc.org/dv/statistics.shtml

http://www.domesticpeace.com/ed_nationalstats.html
 
One of the biggest clues in this will be whether or not Karen was sexually assaulted. If she was, then it very well could be a predator or a case of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. If she was not sexually assaulted and she was not robbed, then it's likely a case of domestic violence. What would be in it for a random predator to kill a woman, hide her body, and stage the scene it if they aren't 'getting anything out of it'?

The most important points, in my opinion, are:

1) Whether or not Karen was sexually assaulted;
2) The fact that her clothing was hidden beneath brush tell me that the scene was staged by somebody. If they staged one thing (the clothing), then they also likely staged another (the car.)
3) The location of her body tells me that the person who did it was in a big rush, and didn't have time to better conceal it. That person likely pulled up that graveyard driveway, placed Karen into the kudzo while the car was still running, then high-tailed it home.

I cannot bring myself to believe that she left the house on her own even though her daughter was sick. I also cannot bring myself to believe that it's a satanic ritual. What satanic rituals involve staging a scene to paint a different story?

I hope I'm wrong, but in my opinion, the suspect in her murder is crystal clear. I truly hope I'm wrong.
BBM

Completely agree. In addition, the clothing wasn't where her body was found. What random killer would commit the murder at one location, remove the victim's clothing then transport the body to another location? Why wouldn't he leave her body where her clothes were found? Also, if the clothing found wasn't what she was wearing that night/early morning, why remove it from the vehicle? All this, of course, with the assumption that clothing belonged to Karen.

MOO
 
Interesting words from the neighbor. His wife takes care of the children while DS is talking with LE, yet DS has nothing to say to him.

MOO

I don't blame him, I wouldn't be talking to nosy neighbors either. Everything he says or does is going to be twisted to mean something sinister anyway.
 
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