Found Deceased TN - Noah Chamberlin, 2, Pinson, 14 Jan 2016 - #2

Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by KateB, Jan 18, 2016.

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  1. meinmyrtlebeach

    meinmyrtlebeach Well-Known Member

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    I don't tend to be one of those "conspiracy theorists" or those who automatically look at something and say "this doesn't pass the smell test" or whatever. But i'm struggling with the facts here...

    While I don't think there is any way in hell that his 4 year old sister wouldn't have cracked upon questioning if Noah in fact wasn't with them out there, I'm having a hard time that the dogs didn't pick up a single scent. How is that possible???

    I also think the possibility of a stranger abduction or even a familiar abduction is so remote that it's not even a possibility. I mean, let's face it. If he was in fact enjoying nature/woods with Grandma and big sister, what are the chances that he just happened to walk away/slip away and at that exact same time a kidnapper or criminal or whatever just happens upon him in that exact few minutes when he is out of grandma's sight? It just doesn't seem plausible.

    So then i'm left back at square one. Him falling into a hole or down an embankment, or even into a pond or creek...AT LEAST the dogs would have picked up his scent right at the beginning from where He and Grandma/Sister were hanging out or walking. But now the sheriff has said they've found absolutely no scent at all? How can that be??

    I'm just lost...and heartbroken for this little boy who must have been so scared and confused.
     


  2. SoccerMotha

    SoccerMotha Well-Known Member

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    I came here when Deorr first went missing and during that time while on vaca at the Lake of the Ozarks, our two year old slipped out of the hotel door while I was in the bathroom and my husband on the balconey, our six year old was in the room with him but lost in the tablet. At the time, we didn't think he could open doors yet, but those hotel door handles were the long ones and not round, all he had to do what push it down and he was out. Fortunately we were right above the admin. offices and they heard us running the halls yelling for him. The hotel sprung into action and for the longest 5 min of my life I ran frantically from hall to hall looking for him. This is an older resort, very large with no cameras and right on the lake, it has many connecting buildings, no elevators, stairs everywhere and in less than 5 min time, he'd went down two flights of stairs, then up one and made it clear across the building. He was found still sucking his sucker knocking on a door.

    I will tell you that in those moments, well I can't even put into words the terror I was feeling, also I must have went down the same hall three or four times because I was not thinking clearly, I was just everywhere. I don't know how the grandma was feeling, but I can guess and I'm sure she too was just running everywhere hollering for him, esp. if she didn't see what direction he went.

    I've also taken him to our families property to just kind of let him go, (with me following obviously), to see what he did and how he did it when nobody was telling him to stay in a certain area. I know all kids are different, but what stuck out to me was that he did not take the path of least resistance and he never stopped he just kept going in a zig zaggy kind of way and would only stop to check out something interesting. He traveled a fair distance on those two year old legs in an hours time. I don't understand how and or why these searchers don't take into account typical toddler actions, which is they just go with no rhyme or reason, look EVERYWHERE! Across the freaking road and miles and miles past it, if they've gone eight miles, go 12, go everywhere you don't think he will. Sorry for the long post I'm just upset and don't mean to be critical of these lovely searchers, they are doing a brillant job and I only wish I could do more from MO.
     
  3. hey-Debbie

    hey-Debbie Well-Known Member

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    I think they are using dogs that are trained to detect both alive and dead. I think it's amazing what these dogs can do. They have also had a lot of different dogs searching. This is why I don't understand they can't pick up anything. I mean they can track in the light, dark, rain (dogs prefer a moist environment) It's said that dogs track better in the morning hours and at dusk. All those dogs out there and the reporter at NBC now says no scent was picked up at all and no signs of Noah's clothes. Nothing.
     
  4. Dogface

    Dogface Well-Known Member

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    This exact scenario has crossed my mind as the only plausible other explanation there could be. And it's sad because I hope that's what happened, I just hate to think of him, so little, in such a vast, beautiful dangerous place!
     
  5. ZhaZhaHa

    ZhaZhaHa Well-Known Member

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    Didn't it rain shortly after he went missing? Wouldn't that be something to consider with SAR dogs?
     
  6. Sweetgrits

    Sweetgrits New Member

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    I know it's been back and forth, but I believe LE said in the presser yesterday they were going to check back around the areas where the dogs hit and then lost the scent. I know in the first presser when reporters asked the sheriff if the dogs had picked up any scents he hesitated and then said no. I guess we don't know the truth but I just can't believe the dogs didn't hit anywhere.

    One thing I thought about was maybe Noah did fall into a hole where a tree was uprooted but maybe the hole slanted back underneath the tree so the hole was maybe missed. I don't know if that's even possible but maybe it is and the searchers just haven't found the correct hole yet.

    JMO
     
  7. Peppery

    Peppery Well-Known Member

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    This is what I think too. And if he was walking briskly in the open yard around the house, there would be even less of his scent than in the woods where he could have stopped to look at something, scratched his face on a branch, snagged his shirt or fallen. I really do believe he's close, just across the road a bit. Moo


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  8. MotherOfDragons1227

    MotherOfDragons1227 New Member

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    This is regarding the dogs finding a scent and current search efforts. Forgive me, I'm new and not entirely sure of all the rules here but I think this information would be considered a rumor but it was posted by a family friend who appears to be very involved with the search. I would post a screen shot but I'm not sure how. But anyway, he said that dogs had found a scent but quickly lost it and speculated that if Noah had fallen into a hole that maybe the walking above was briefly pushing air from the hole and the scent up and said that they've been digging deeper into every sink whole they've been able to find near where he disappeared and that the terrain around where he was last seen can make it very difficult to locate him.

    That he fell seems to be the most plausible explanation to me for how quickly and quietly he disappeared followed by the possibility that someone saw him alone and took off with him. If he fell and is no longer with us I hope for his sake he went quickly and didn't suffer. It hurts to even think about what that little boy could have gone through. I want to believe that he could still be with us and that maybe he fell and wasn't seriously injured but that he fell deep enough to be protected from the bitter cold, predators, and the elements. Maybe he even drank some rain water, I know my toddler has tried just out of curiosity. Im holding onto every last shred of hope but any possibility of a positive outcome is diminishing with every hour he's not found.

    I'm in CO so it's much more dry here but I've seen some pretty large holes mostly hidden by tree roots and I would imagine that wet matted leaves, and mud, would only hide these holes even more. When we take nature walks in the mountains my 2 year old likes to cling to trees for support on uneven terrain, maybe that's what Noah would have done. I would be looking extremely, extremely, closely at the bases of large trees around where he was last seen, especially ones surrounded by lots of shrubs, rocks, or other fallen trees. But that's just based on my experience in the woods around here, I have no idea what it's like there and how it's different where they're searching.

    The ideal, ideal situation I guess would be that instead of wandering further into the woods he actually went towards a more populated area and someone grabbed took that opportunity and snatched him up. I know that scenario is very unlikely though but if someone took him I hope it's someone who would care for him and not add to his suffering and that someday soon someone spots him.
     
  9. hey-Debbie

    hey-Debbie Well-Known Member

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    In the air or on the ground? Dog noses find the way

    A dog’s sense of smell is not only more powerful that ours, it is more discerning. Thus a dog can pick out a target odor in a sea of odors, especially if his concentration is reinforced by periodic exposure to an item of clothing or other object handled or worn by the person he is seeking.

    When trailing a person, a dog keys on the odor of skin cells that flake off the body. These skin cells float in the air and drop to the ground as the person moves about, and they float to the surface of the water if a victim has drowned.

    The website of the Kentucky Search Dog Association (www.mindspring.com/~sardog/airdog.html), a division of the state’s emergency management agency, defines the difference between air-scenting and trailing dogs with the advantages of each.

    Air-scenting dogs work off-lead, directed in a search pattern by the handler. They work with their heads up, sniffing the air to catch the scent and follow it to the victim. Air-scenting dogs are valuable for searches in collapsed structures, for locating the bodies of drowning victims, and for other searches in which a person is not tracked from one point to another.

    Because air-scenting dogs work on scent above the ground and range away from the handler, they can work in areas contaminated by human searchers but allowed to air out for awhile. After the contamination has settled, the only body giving off air scent will be the quarry.

    Trailing dogs work on-lead. They follow the skin-cell trail wherever it leads, even though it is mixed with other scents.

    Bloodhounds are the best trailing dogs. Their long ears and loose facial skin form folds that scoop and trap scent around their noses. In good conditions, Bloodhounds can follow trails that are weeks old, while other dogs must be on the track within hours.

    Contamination of the area, i.e., if family members have been beating the bushes for a lost relative, can reduce the effectiveness of a trailing dog, for dogs have trouble discerning between the scent of the quarry and the scent of a family member. Hot weather can cause problems, too, for skin cells decompose quickly in higher temperatures.

    So IMO, with all those SAR dogs out there and different kinds of SAR dogs that have been brought in there has to be at least 1 dog that has found or hit on something. If none of them did, then I would think he wasn't in the woods when they said he was in the woods. There was a comment earlier that one of the searchers said that they were going back over places where the dogs hit. They should have been doing that when the dogs hit and should have had maybe another one go over that area. I mean if a cadaver dog can get a hit in the water they can search in the rain.
     
  10. hey-Debbie

    hey-Debbie Well-Known Member

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    From reporter Kristin Leigh
    As of today, the Chester County SO is the lead on the search for Noah Chamberlin, and the related investigation. (BBM)
     
  11. Foxfire

    Foxfire New Member

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    <BBM for Focus>

    Meinmyrtlebeach, there is only one reasonable conclusion or possibility that I can come up with as to Noah's mysterious disappearance without a trace, and the many K9s inability to pick up a scent.. Many times the lack of signs or evidence is very important, even more important than those seen, imo.

    I am very concerned about a wildlife/predator attack on Noah. I had posted about coyotes, but coyotes usually leave residue/evidence of their attacks and are very noisy. My primary concern is a cougars/mountain lion attack. The DNR introduced them into the TN/NC/GA forests over 10 years ago. Their MO of stealthily stalking/hunting/capturing their prey seems to fit. Cougars carry their prey to a well hidden desolate area up to one half mile away, and then bury it, for later retrieval..

    Cougars also emit a very heavy lingering scent and would likely cover/overpower a young child's scent, possibly preventing the detection by the K9s, imo..
    Imo, when Noah separated from his grandmother and sister, the predator may have taken advantage of this rare opportunity to strike..

    I found a website on cougar sightings in TN. There are quite a few sighted over the past 5 years and several recent sightings near Pinson, TN within their geographical range of hunting territory which is a very large area. There was a cougar sighting in 2009 and another in September 2015 approximately 50 miles from Pinson, TN. The pressure caused by the TN big game/deer 2015/16 hunting season that ended a couple weeks ago may have caused movement by the cougar to the area for safety..

    In addition to its' excellent vision, the Mountain Lion has extremely sensitive hearing. This is also an important tool for hunting in low light. Lions can detect high frequency sounds that allow them to detect hidden prey. By comparison, Mountain Lions have a weak sense of smell. This is the trade-off cats made millions of years ago. Evolving short muzzles increased biting power, but decreased the sense of smell.

    Mountain Lions are known as ambush hunters. The lion waits patiently in dense vegetation or rock crevices for prey to wander by. Then, silent stalking of the prey is followed by a quick surprise attack by the powerful cat. A popular myth is that Mountain Lions jump out of trees or off of cliffs to attack their prey. In actuality they may leap from a high hiding place to build up speed for the attack, but at the point of impact, they keep their hind legs on the ground for balance and, if necessary, a quick escape. When attacking large animals, Mountain Lions go for the neck. Their jaws are powerful enough to break the neck of a deer or smaller animal. Alternatively when attacking larger animals such as elk or even horses, Mountain Lions choose to clamp down on the windpipe, strangling the victim.

    One lion can consume up to 20 or 30 pounds of meat in a single meal. After feeding on its kill, the lion will cache the prey, or bury it in a secluded spot. The Mountain Lion will return to feed on the prey for up to 10 days.
    The range of a Mountain Lion may cover 25 to 785 square miles.
    ______________

    Vancouver Island cougar attacks toddler in family's yard
    Cougar had daughter's head in its jaws when her dad punched it to save her..
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/cougar-attack-vancouver-1.3238052
    West TN Cougar sightings: https://www.uu.edu/forms/cougars/sightings.cfm

    Fatal Cougar Attacks in North America: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_cougar_attacks_in_North_America#2000s

    Mountain Lion/Cougar

    Cougar sighting 09/20/2015 confirmed by TWRA: http://www.jacksonsun.com/story/news/2015/10/06/cougar-sighting-confirmed-twra/73464314/
     
  12. krig101

    krig101 Well-Known Member

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    Interesting

    Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
     
  13. wowitsdark

    wowitsdark Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps I'm wrong, but I assume if something like this had happened, dogs would be hitting a scent and clothing items would've been found.
     
  14. Sweetgrits

    Sweetgrits New Member

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    Great info Foxfire but if Noah was attacked by an animal wouldn't he have cried out with fear? Since the searchers have been in those woods constantly since the disappearance wouldn't they have heard something? Even if Noah was afraid to call out when he heard strangers calling his name surely he would if he was attacked.
     
  15. skibaboo

    skibaboo Mrs Map

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    As well as the search, it is a missing person investigation.
     
  16. MotherOfDragons1227

    MotherOfDragons1227 New Member

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    Just last week my older son did the same thing to us but from our home. We know he can undo locks and open doors so we installed a chain lock at the top of the door so that he can't reach it because he is always trying to get outside. We rarely use the front door, we go in and out of the garage which is blocked off by a baby gate.

    Not 10 minutes before his escape I had walked by and saw him playing by the window and glanced at the door to make sure the chain was locked like I always do and it was, I went to the couch in the other room to change my younger son (3 months) and right around the time I was done my husband walked downstairs with a basket of laundry and I noticed that I didn't hear our son say anything, usually we at least get a "hi" or "mama" or "daddy" when one of us walks by so I asked my husband if our son was still playing in the front room and he said he thought so but I saw the realization dawn on him that he didn't remember seeing him so we both rushed to the front door, saw that it was cracked and that the chain was undone we both frantically ran out the front door just in time to see a man walking down our street carrying our son looking for his family, he had taken off his own coat to bundle up our son. It was maybe 30 degrees outside, he was only wearing his pjs, no shoes, and our son was so happy to be outside exploring and so oblivious to the cold and all the possible dangers, he saw a cat and just followed it down the street trying to catch it. It terrifies me that had he darted out into the street in front of w car or had the wrong kind of person seen him and taken him that those few minutes could have changed our lives forever.

    Maybe that's why this case is getting to me so much, aside from the close age and physical similarities between my son and Noah, just last week under different circumstances this could have been us on the news with the child who just vanished. And so many people are so quick to judge and tear apart the grandmother for taking her eyes off of him for a minute and to bash the parents for having her babysit, it just irks me so much. Nobody realizes that things like this can happen in the blink of an eye even to the most attentive, protective, helicopter parents.

    We still don't know how the chain came loose, my best guess is that whenever it was locked last maybe the slide was only put halfway into the track by mistake so when he tried the door it just fell out.
     
  17. drjones

    drjones Former Member

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    Info is near the end of the post you replied to - cats will instinctively go for the throat and strangle.
     
  18. dyannaON

    dyannaON Well-Known Member

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    I can't believe it's been almost a week and precious Noah is still out there. I pray he is found today. This really is devastating.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  19. drjones

    drjones Former Member

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    I think a cat attack is still somewhat unlikely, but it would not be surprising for there to be no evidence even if one happened.

    They could/would go for the throat, no slashing or shredding, and they would abscond with their prey immediately to hide it somewhere safe.
     
  20. pappa rob

    pappa rob New Member

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    Welcome to the group!
     
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