TN - Shooting at private Christian Covenant School, Nashville, suspect dead, multiple victims, 27 Mar 2023 #2

[MyBelle]

Perhaps there is a middle ground: hold the manifesto until the probable cause hearing or even the trial, when the crushing MSM focus has moved on.

There will be no trial. The shooter is dead.

 

[Breezie]

So everyone that’s come forward so far are essentially from Audrey’s middle school days? Did she not have any friends in high school? College? After school? Did she have any friends at all?

Nashville shooter Audrey Hale would dress as trans star Elliot Page

A school friend of Hale has now revealed that she loved to dress up as Page's iconic character Juno during their time at The Nashville School of Arts.

www.dailymail.co.uk

This article is about her high school years.

Reflecting on high school memories, the friend recalled Hale's open struggle with autism and mental health.

'Her teachers said she was sweet but troubled, mostly because of her struggle with autism and depression,' the friend told DailyMail.com.

'She was known to have little bouts of frustration or anger. But for the most part like I've said before she was well liked and funny. '

Cops confirmed Hale was receiving treatment for an emotional disorder and described her as having 'high-functioning' autism. Despite this, Hale was able to legally purchase seven firearms.

Hale's classmates said that they weren't surprised when she came out as gay or when she later decided to transition.

The friend dished out Hale's non-existent love life which appeared to remain stagnant throughout high school.

'She never dated,' the friend said. 'We all kinda figured she would come out as gay, and no one was surprised when she came out as trans. But other than that she was very driven by sports.'

A yearbook photo obtained by DailyMail.com showed Hale winning 'Most Athletic' alongside another classmate.

 

[YepperBepper]

Here's a bit more from a different recent article:

Nashville school shooter was ‘obsessive’ about former middle school basketball team

Former teammates of Audrey Hale, who killed 6 in Nashville school shooting this week, say Hale recently began showing "stalkerish behavior."

www.tennessean.com

From link:

In February 2022, Hale came uninvited to a birthday party at Ponobe’s Bar and Restaurant in Goodlettsville that was attended by some members of that middle school team, Phillips said. Hale did not seem to be using male pronouns at the time, Phillips said. (Phillips declined to name the other people at the party).

Phillips arrived after Hale and noticed her former teammate acting visibly drunk, stumbling and slurring words. But the other people at the party said that Hale hadn’t had anything to drink. Everyone believed Hale was pretending to be drunk at a party she hadn’t been invited to, Phillips said.

Phillips hadn’t seen Hale in person for many years, she said. But remembering Hale’s mother from their middle school playing days, Phillips tried to get Hale's phone so she could contact Hale's family and get Hale home safely. But Hale refused. The other people at the party weren’t sure what to do for Hale.

“Everybody was confused,” Phillips said. “It was just rubbing us in a weird way of like, giving us a really negative feeling. It didn't feel right.”

End Quote

(much more on link)

Quoting myself. What month was it determined that Hale began target and shooting practice? Around this time, I think ....

 

[10ofRods]

Here's another take from someone who went to both middle and high school with Hale:

Ex-classmate: Nashville shooter ‘sweet’ but ‘jumpy’ as teen

The community is still searching for answers, particularly a motive behind the attack.

www.newsnationnow.com

So it's not the case that all info is from middle school. Just saying.

 

[Breezie]

From hugging stuffed animals to school shooter: how Audrey Hale changed in nine years

Audrey Hale cited a popular children’s book in her yearbook.

www.wsmv.com

 

[Nova]

Here's my thing. We just went through two full days of 24 hours coverage of this event. We saw the surveillance footage. We saw the body cam footage. We saw multiple articles and talking heads presuming intent and motive. We read and saw many really nasty things said from various activists on both sides of the political aisle. We saw photos of the guns (with the cute little stickers). We saw the car. The family home. We saw the Instagram posts with the suicide/homicide intent. We will continue to be deluged with experts opining on what happened and why for days to come.

Each and every bit of this will be available online forevermore.

Yet, for some reason, we don't want to hear the perps own words because that might insight someone? Really?

I guess I find that strange...but to each his own and I respect all viewpoints and their reasoning for it.

FTR the discussion of whether to publish the manifesto came out of a discussion about giving attention to perpetrators when their crimes are clearly intended to invite attention. The alleged manifesto was just one aspect of the issue.

Almost everyone has agrees it is a tough question in a free society.

 

[MyBelle]

Nashville shooter Audrey Hale would dress as trans star Elliot Page

A school friend of Hale has now revealed that she loved to dress up as Page's iconic character Juno during their time at The Nashville School of Arts.

www.dailymail.co.uk

This article is about her high school years.

Reflecting on high school memories, the friend recalled Hale's open struggle with autism and mental health.

'Her teachers said she was sweet but troubled, mostly because of her struggle with autism and depression,' the friend told DailyMail.com.

'She was known to have little bouts of frustration or anger. But for the most part like I've said before she was well liked and funny. '

Cops confirmed Hale was receiving treatment for an emotional disorder and described her as having 'high-functioning' autism. Despite this, Hale was able to legally purchase seven firearms.

Hale's classmates said that they weren't surprised when she came out as gay or when she later decided to transition.

The friend dished out Hale's non-existent love life which appeared to remain stagnant throughout high school.

'She never dated,' the friend said. 'We all kinda figured she would come out as gay, and no one was surprised when she came out as trans. But other than that she was very driven by sports.'

A yearbook photo obtained by DailyMail.com showed Hale winning 'Most Athletic' alongside another classmate.

I wonder about the "emotional disorder" and what kind of therapy she was receiving or had received.

 

[YepperBepper]

Middle school may have been when she decided to "come out" and start limiting her friends to those who also identify as gay or transgender. I doubt those friends want to talk to the press out of fear for their own safety.

Valid point. I'm adding in the reference to wanting to be a child again. Play in the playground. Perhaps until 13ish Hale was comfortable with life ...and thereafter, the pressures of sexuality, going through puberty, gender identity, changes in social relationships and looming adulthood is when things got rough.

Honestly, the more I hear and read from actual real sources...these 2022 activities where there are multiple attempts made to revisit those childhood friends almost has a feel of a terminal patient nostalgically reliving the best years of their life before they die. The shooting practice began in early 2022, so the plan was already hatched, imo.

I may be wrong, but in my foggy brain, it makes sense.

Imho

 

[neesaki]

Here's a bit more from a different recent article:

Nashville school shooter was ‘obsessive’ about former middle school basketball team

Former teammates of Audrey Hale, who killed 6 in Nashville school shooting this week, say Hale recently began showing "stalkerish behavior."

www.tennessean.com

From link:

In February 2022, Hale came uninvited to a birthday party at Ponobe’s Bar and Restaurant in Goodlettsville that was attended by some members of that middle school team, Phillips said. Hale did not seem to be using male pronouns at the time, Phillips said. (Phillips declined to name the other people at the party).

Phillips arrived after Hale and noticed her former teammate acting visibly drunk, stumbling and slurring words. But the other people at the party said that Hale hadn’t had anything to drink. Everyone believed Hale was pretending to be drunk at a party she hadn’t been invited to, Phillips said.

Phillips hadn’t seen Hale in person for many years, she said. But remembering Hale’s mother from their middle school playing days, Phillips tried to get Hale's phone so she could contact Hale's family and get Hale home safely. But Hale refused. The other people at the party weren’t sure what to do for Hale.

“Everybody was confused,” Phillips said. “It was just rubbing us in a weird way of like, giving us a really negative feeling. It didn't feel right.”

End Quote

(much more on link)

Goodness. Sounds like she really had some problems all along, at last since middle school. Sounds like she was lonely?

 

[10ofRods]

Okay, so the 1st Amendment is off limits! Sounds good to me.

The 2nd Amendment is off limits, too, as you and I both know.

So what is the answer when it comes to crimes committed solely or largely in order to publicize a message? It doesn't appear we can give the perps of such crimes enough attention to discourage them...

In this case, I feel the murderer had many issues and red flags and sorely needed a support system. Perhaps they had an imaginary support system in their romantic object, but we will probably never know if the relationship was reciprocal or what was going on.

I don't think the point is to specifically discourage a particular perp, but to keep the overall pool of crime-prone and desperate people from getting bigger. No matter what caused this horrific crime, it could have been prevented - but not by law or amendments, apparently. Maybe nothing could have, but my intuition tells me that something might have prevented this.

At any rate, history is filled with horrific crimes designed to send a message. I was overly optimistic about the role of internet in making this happen less (well, crime stats say it is happening less, so I should shut up).

I have no idea what to do to prevent something like this. But I do know it could be worse.

IMO.

. Sounds like she really had some problems all along, at last since middle school. Sounds like she was lonely?

You said it shorter than I did. That's my same sense. That's why I think that being able to build even a single bridge to some of these young people is part of the solution. And by "young," today we mean "30 and under."

Imo

 

[YepperBepper]

Nashville shooter Audrey Hale had a 'child-like obsession with staying a child,' college classmate says

Audrey Hale, a 28-year-old former Covenant School student who killed six people at the school Monday, carefully planned the attack, according to officials.

www.albanyherald.com

From link (college classmate):

One of Hale's classmates at Nossi, who asked only to be identified by his first name Cody, said he and Hale were both commercial illustration majors.
Even though they were the same age, Cody said he thought Hale was much younger because Hale "dressed like a little kid" and brought stuffed animals to class.
Cody said he thought Hale had a "child-like obsession with staying a child."
He described Hale as reserved, adding that Hale was serious about art and teachers lauded Hale's artwork.

End Quote

 

[MyBelle]

Valid point. I'm adding in the reference to wanting to be a child again. Play in the playground. Perhaps until 13ish Hale was comfortable with life ...and thereafter, the pressures of sexuality, going through puberty, gender identity, changes in social relationships and looming adulthood is when things got rough.

Honestly, the more I hear and read from actual real sources...these 2022 activities where there are multiple attempts made to revisit those childhood friends almost has a feel of a terminal patient nostalgically reliving the best years of their life before they die. The shooting practice began in early 2022, so the plan was already hatched, imo.

I may be wrong, but in my foggy brain, it makes sense.

Imho

<modsnip: not victim friendly> Hopefully, the manifesto shines more light on the dynamics of this horrific crime.

I do think you are right about her clinging to those happy memories with friends where she was accepted for who she was.

 

[10ofRods]

Autism isn't a mental health disorder.

I've seen 'emotional disorder' written elsewhere, which isn't a clear diagnostic label.

I am not convinced said 'emotional disorder' and the claim of autism are the same thing.

People can be autistic and have mental health conditions as well. I know this personally.

I'm waiting for clearer information, is all I'm saying.

MOO

It's in DSM, which is all most reporters need in order to use that language. And many doctors and lay people as well.

I think the reporter who used "emotional disorder" probably thought they were helping by not saying "mental illness."

DSM is for both neurological and psychiatric disorders; and Board Certification in the United States for psychiatrists includes both:

American Board of Psychiatry and Neurology - ABPN

The American Board of Psychiatry and Neurology (ABPN) is a not-for-profit corporation dedicated to serving the professions of psychiatry and neurology.

www.abpn.com

To me, the difference between the two sciences is rather clear - very clear, really. But to many people, if it's DSM, it's "mental illness." here'

"Emotional disorder" may sound better? I don't know. I just wish there was no stigma attached to any of it. If Hale was indeed on the spectrum, it must have been frustrating to Hale that a lot of people simply didn't understand. Indeed, since there seems to be a genetic strand (not always, but a lot of the time, one can be documented), it's possible that the surges of feeling that Hale experienced might have gone unnoticed or blended into the family dynamic. There's at least a decade of research on this topic and more coming out all the time.

To me, though, mental health is both neurobiological and psychiatric - there is no dividing line at all.

IMO.

 

[Nova]

There will be no trial. The shooter is dead.

Yes, of course. In this case. I was hypothesizing in general.

No trial, but even here the manifesto could be held until releasing it doesn't add to the current media frenzy.

 

[JennieM]

Of course one can - and it has a much greater PR effect than merely quietly reading the manifesto at home.

IMO.

Sorry 10ofRods, I did not understand what you mean.

 

[JennieM]

Nashville shooter Audrey Hale had a 'child-like obsession with staying a child,' college classmate says

Audrey Hale, a 28-year-old former Covenant School student who killed six people at the school Monday, carefully planned the attack, according to officials.

www.albanyherald.com

From link (college classmate):

One of Hale's classmates at Nossi, who asked only to be identified by his first name Cody, said he and Hale were both commercial illustration majors.
Even though they were the same age, Cody said he thought Hale was much younger because Hale "dressed like a little kid" and brought stuffed animals to class.
Cody said he thought Hale had a "child-like obsession with staying a child."
He described Hale as reserved, adding that Hale was serious about art and teachers lauded Hale's artwork.

End Quote

For someone who identified so much with children but also to lack the most basic level of empathy towards them, to be prepared to deprive THEM of their childhood (and their whole life), is just astonishing.

 

[YepperBepper]

For someone who identified so much with children but also to lack the most basic level of empathy towards them, to be prepared to deprive THEM of their childhood (and their whole life), is just astonishing.

I'm feeling the same, Jennie.

Wanted to be a child again, but slaughtered 3 of them.

Make it make sense.

 

[JennieM]

I'm feeling the same, Jennie.

Wanted to be a child again, but slaughtered 3 of them.

Make it make sense.

Just awful and unforgivable. I feel for her parents.

 

[MyBelle]

Yes, of course. In this case. I was hypothesizing in general.

No trial, but even here the manifesto could be held until releasing it doesn't add to the current media frenzy.

True but I think the media frenzy will resume when the manifesto is released because of the political implications. <modsnip: quoted post removed>

 

[Arkay]

Goodness. Sounds like she really had some problems all along, at last since middle school. Sounds like she was lonely?

IMO It seems evident that she felt she’d found her tribe during middle school among the basketball team, but they’d all matured and moved on while she stayed fixated on those girls.

It also seems to me that after two of her teammates died, she felt forgotten by all of her team.

Now she found a way to be remembered.

We could only wish she’d have taken comfort in something else. She was winning awards in art, and it’s my belief that her parents did love her. They knew she was different and they are entitled to their religious beliefs, but they still allowed her to live with them as an adult despite whatever conflicts may have arisen between them.

Certainly if she had plans to die, as she texted to her former friend, it would have been a family tragedy. This, though, is unforgivable.

Those children weren’t even born yet when she attended the school.

Moving from suicidal ideation to mass murder will have her remembered for only awful reasons.

JMO