TN - Shooting at private Christian Covenant School, Nashville, suspect dead, multiple victims, 27 Mar 2023 #2

[Breezie]

“That’s the really hard part. We really felt helpless. There is not much we could do for those patients…I’ve never seen something so devastating where we have children losing their lives. Just sheer devastation,” Dr. Fusco said.

‘We felt hopeless’: Monroe Carell surgeon talks after treating school shooting victims

 

[iamshadow21]

It's in DSM, which is all most reporters need in order to use that language. And many doctors and lay people as well.

I think the reporter who used "emotional disorder" probably thought they were helping by not saying "mental illness."

DSM is for both neurological and psychiatric disorders; and Board Certification in the United States for psychiatrists includes both:

American Board of Psychiatry and Neurology - ABPN

The American Board of Psychiatry and Neurology (ABPN) is a not-for-profit corporation dedicated to serving the professions of psychiatry and neurology.

www.abpn.com

To me, the difference between the two sciences is rather clear - very clear, really. But to many people, if it's DSM, it's "mental illness." here'

"Emotional disorder" may sound better? I don't know. I just wish there was no stigma attached to any of it. If Hale was indeed on the spectrum, it must have been frustrating to Hale that a lot of people simply didn't understand. Indeed, since there seems to be a genetic strand (not always, but a lot of the time, one can be documented), it's possible that the surges of feeling that Hale experienced might have gone unnoticed or blended into the family dynamic. There's at least a decade of research on this topic and more coming out all the time.

To me, though, mental health is both neurobiological and psychiatric - there is no dividing line at all.

IMO.

I know YOU know the difference. We've talked enough before on other threads.

In heightened cases, it's just so routine I can almost set my watch by it. A person who is filled with self entitlement and rage acts out... and within a day, either in the media or in the threads, autism, mental illness, gender or sexuality, dissociative disorders, fetal alcohol syndrome or something or other else gets pulled out and tossed around as a possible 'reason'. And yes, sometimes one or more of those things is a factor in the case. But a lot of the time, they aren't.

And I understand why, don't get me wrong. People want to make it make sense. And the media and fiction tell people who the ones are who are other, who are to be mistrusted and feared. It doesn't matter that queer people and people with disabilities and mental illness are far more likely to be harmed by others than to harm others.

So, I firmly sit on the fence and reserve judgement a lot longer than others might. I resist the 'if this, then that', because people are complicated. His actions might have nothing to do with autism or mental health or gender, or they might have a lot to do with them. We just don't know yet. We might never know. The truth is rarely pure and never simple, as Wilde said.

MOO

 

[YepperBepper]

I know YOU know the difference. We've talked enough before on other threads.

In heightened cases, it's just so routine I can almost set my watch by it. A person who is filled with self entitlement and rage acts out... and within a day, either in the media or in the threads, autism, mental illness, gender or sexuality, dissociative disorders, fetal alcohol syndrome or something or other else gets pulled out and tossed around as a possible 'reason'. And yes, sometimes one or more of those things is a factor in the case. But a lot of the time, they aren't.

And I understand why, don't get me wrong. People want to make it make sense. And the media and fiction tell people who the ones are who are other, who are to be mistrusted and feared. It doesn't matter that queer people and people with disabilities and mental illness are far more likely to be harmed by others than to harm others.

So, I firmly sit on the fence and reserve judgement a lot longer than others might. I resist the 'if this, then that', because people are complicated. His actions might have nothing to do with autism or mental health or gender, or they might have a lot to do with them. We just don't know yet. We might never know. The truth is rarely pure and never simple, as Wilde said.

MOO

Ah. Yes.

I want it to make sense.

But, the act itself was senseless...wasn't it?

 

[YepperBepper]

“That’s the really hard part. We really felt helpless. There is not much we could do for those patients…I’ve never seen something so devastating where we have children losing their lives. Just sheer devastation,” Dr. Fusco said.

‘We felt hopeless’: Monroe Carell surgeon talks after treating school shooting victims

Wow. The feeling of helplessness is palpable in his words.

The magnitude of the ripple effect of this one heinous act is absolutely devastating. The number of lives impacted. The people directly impacted. Parents. Aunts. Siblings Uncles. Friends. Doctors. Teachers. Janitors. Policemen. Nurses. Society.

The audacity...gets me angry all over again. Ugh.

 

[iamshadow21]

Ah. Yes.

I want it to make sense.

But, the act itself was senseless...wasn't it?

In my opinion, to anyone but him, yes.

And his 'reason' could just be something as simple as he always wanted to kill somebody.

There's no making sense out of that.

MOO

 

[Sundog]

Funerals set for Nashville school shooting's 6 victims

Funeral services are set for the six people killed in this week’s school shooting in Nashville, as the grieving city mourns the victims of the horrific attack on what should have been a normal day of school. Police said three adults and three 9-year-old students were killed during the shooting...

apnews.com

The funeral's begin, and during the holiest week of the church year.

 

[YepperBepper]

In my opinion, to anyone but him, yes.

And his 'reason' could just be something as simple as he always wanted to kill somebody.

There's no making sense out of that.

MOO

Agree.


I hate Mondays. I'll never recover from Ms. Spencer.

 

[KooshBall]

I am furious that every single child that was there that day will never be the same again. Trauma in early childhood is the gateway to depression, anxiety, and substance abuse. I watched a show on tv recently about the school bus kidnapping in California in 1976. It gave the unique opportunity to hear from some of the now adults who lived through the kidnapping as children. They all mentioned substance abuse issues and mental health problems throughout their lives.

As an adult I was caught up in the middle of a shooting New Years Eve, 2013. I have never been the same. I have struggled holding a job and am always in flight or fight mode, which is exhausting. I have been in therapy since, but I am still not the same person that I was before, and it actually is getting worse with time, because I am triggered every time another mass shooting happens. Now, imagine that experience for a child, who's brain is still growing and wiring itself. Putting kids through something like this is like giving them brain damage and it makes me sick that there are people who think whatever they are going through means they can destroy so many lives.

 

[JennieM]

I am furious that every single child that was there that day will never be the same again. Trauma in early childhood is the gateway to depression, anxiety, and substance abuse. I watched a show on tv recently about the school bus kidnapping in California in 1976. It gave the unique opportunity to hear from some of the now adults who lived through the kidnapping as children. They all mentioned substance abuse issues and mental health problems throughout their lives.

As an adult I was caught up in the middle of a shooting New Years Eve, 2013. I have never been the same. I have struggled holding a job and am always in flight or fight mode, which is exhausting. I have been in therapy since, but I am still not the same person that I was before, and it actually is getting worse with time, because I am triggered every time another mass shooting happens. Now, imagine that experience for a child, who's brain is still growing and wiring itself. Putting kids through something like this is like giving them brain damage and it makes me sick that there are people who think whatever they are going through means they can destroy so many lives.

It's all terrible. Very sorry to hear about your troubles, I hope things get easier. If this topic is triggering and upsetting, don't stay here on this thread for now. Look after yourself first!

 

[WingsOverTX]

I am furious that every single child that was there that day will never be the same again. Trauma in early childhood is the gateway to depression, anxiety, and substance abuse. I watched a show on tv recently about the school bus kidnapping in California in 1976. It gave the unique opportunity to hear from some of the now adults who lived through the kidnapping as children. They all mentioned substance abuse issues and mental health problems throughout their lives.

As an adult I was caught up in the middle of a shooting New Years Eve, 2013. I have never been the same. I have struggled holding a job and am always in flight or fight mode, which is exhausting. I have been in therapy since, but I am still not the same person that I was before, and it actually is getting worse with time, because I am triggered every time another mass shooting happens. Now, imagine that experience for a child, who's brain is still growing and wiring itself. Putting kids through something like this is like giving them brain damage and it makes me sick that there are people who think whatever they are going through means they can destroy so many lives.

I am so sorry for you enduring a terrible experience & the challenging aftermath. You are a survivor. Despite the ongoing battle, I can tell you are strong. It's ok to share here. It's ok to overreact and then remember to do things that nurture your ongoing recovery. Thank you for speaking out and for not giving up in the face of so many wrongs.

As you point out, trauma changes people & children carry an extra burden. But there is help & hope. I think of people like Elizabeth Smart at times like this. Every survivor who helps others makes a positive impact whether they see the results or not.

The journey is the destination. We mourn the losses & honor them by both remembering and moving forward.

 

[Betty P]

Nashville shooter Audrey Hale would dress as trans star Elliot Page

A school friend of Hale has now revealed that she loved to dress up as Page's iconic character Juno during their time at The Nashville School of Arts.

www.dailymail.co.uk

This article is about her high school years.

Reflecting on high school memories, the friend recalled Hale's open struggle with autism and mental health.

'Her teachers said she was sweet but troubled, mostly because of her struggle with autism and depression,' the friend told DailyMail.com.

'She was known to have little bouts of frustration or anger. But for the most part like I've said before she was well liked and funny. '

Cops confirmed Hale was receiving treatment for an emotional disorder and described her as having 'high-functioning' autism. Despite this, Hale was able to legally purchase seven firearms.

Hale's classmates said that they weren't surprised when she came out as gay or when she later decided to transition.

The friend dished out Hale's non-existent love life which appeared to remain stagnant throughout high school.

'She never dated,' the friend said. 'We all kinda figured she would come out as gay, and no one was surprised when she came out as trans. But other than that she was very driven by sports.'

A yearbook photo obtained by DailyMail.com showed Hale winning 'Most Athletic' alongside another classmate.

Not an expert, but much of the behavior is typical many autistic kids moving through adolescent and teen years. As they grow older they experience more social anxiety and ability to make friends.
She probably did get stuck at a developmental stage where she last felt comfortable and still had some ability to socialize with others - the middle school years.

I think she, like other kids on the spectrum with limited social skills, have a hard time transitioning into teen years, interacting with boys. It may be more attributed to social awkwardness than sexual preference.

None of this, however, explains or causes violent behavior. Mass murder to become famous and seek revenge for accumulated grudges seems to come from a different pathology. JMO

 

[steeltowngirl]

Covenant school student Evelyn Dieckhaus, 9, was 'a shining light in this world’​

At a vigil service held Monday night at Woodmont Christian Church, senior minister Clay Stauffer, shared through tears and a shaky voice, a story of Evelyn Dieckhaus.Her sister, a fifth grader, is a member of the disciples class at Woodmont with plans of being baptized in a couple of weeks.Evelyn’s sister cried as she said, “I don’t want to be an only child.”

Described by family, Evelyn was a "constant beacon of joy to her family, she was a radiant, sparkly soul with an ever-present twinkle in her eye."

Her obituary noted that Evelyn was always the first to greet people with wide open arms and an infectious laugh. In fact, as soon as she learned to walk, Evelyn could be spotted pushing a stroller overflowing with baby dolls, with at least a few more strapped to the front and back of her tiny body. She was, indeed, a care-giver to her core, hoping to be an occupational therapist when she grew up, just like her mother. With an unwavering faith in the goodness of others, Evelyn made people feel known, seen, but never judged."

She loved crafting and drawing, and was filled with curiosity, eagerness and clarity. She has been described as having the presence of an old soul with a 'whip smart' sense of humor.

Covenant school student Evelyn Dieckhaus, 9, was 'a shining light in this world'

Evelyn Dieckhaus, 9, was a third grader at the Covenant School in Nashville.

www.tennessean.com

 

[steeltowngirl]

Hallie Scruggs Remembered As 'Beautiful, Big, Huge Light'​

In her final days, Hallie enjoyed a mission trip to Belize "where she was really excited about having her hair braided, but she had a very big heart for loving people and for serving people," Kara said.

Like her brothers, Hallie also was passionate about playing sports, Kara said.
[…]

"She was very athletic, loved to play sports, soccer and basketball, especially all the games I saw she always scored like a million goals," she said. "She was just ... Having three big brothers that are all very athletic she just was very athletic and loved to play. She was definitely no princess. She was right there with her big brothers every step of the way and ready to get into anything, and there was no challenge she wasn't ready for. She was just a beautiful, big, huge light."

Nashville School Shooting Victim Hallie Scruggs Remembered As 'Beautiful, Big, Huge Light'

Hallie Scruggs aunt shares sweet memories and moments of the 9-year-old after she was shot and killed in a shooting at a private school in Nashville.

people.com

 

[iamshadow21]

Hallie Scruggs Remembered As 'Beautiful, Big, Huge Light'​

In her final days, Hallie enjoyed a mission trip to Belize "where she was really excited about having her hair braided, but she had a very big heart for loving people and for serving people," Kara said.

Like her brothers, Hallie also was passionate about playing sports, Kara said.
[…]

"She was very athletic, loved to play sports, soccer and basketball, especially all the games I saw she always scored like a million goals," she said. "She was just ... Having three big brothers that are all very athletic she just was very athletic and loved to play. She was definitely no princess. She was right there with her big brothers every step of the way and ready to get into anything, and there was no challenge she wasn't ready for. She was just a beautiful, big, huge light."

View attachment 412274

Nashville School Shooting Victim Hallie Scruggs Remembered As 'Beautiful, Big, Huge Light'

Hallie Scruggs aunt shares sweet memories and moments of the 9-year-old after she was shot and killed in a shooting at a private school in Nashville.

people.com

Covenant school student Evelyn Dieckhaus, 9, was 'a shining light in this world’​

At a vigil service held Monday night at Woodmont Christian Church, senior minister Clay Stauffer, shared through tears and a shaky voice, a story of Evelyn Dieckhaus.Her sister, a fifth grader, is a member of the disciples class at Woodmont with plans of being baptized in a couple of weeks.Evelyn’s sister cried as she said, “I don’t want to be an only child.”

Described by family, Evelyn was a "constant beacon of joy to her family, she was a radiant, sparkly soul with an ever-present twinkle in her eye."

Her obituary noted that Evelyn was always the first to greet people with wide open arms and an infectious laugh. In fact, as soon as she learned to walk, Evelyn could be spotted pushing a stroller overflowing with baby dolls, with at least a few more strapped to the front and back of her tiny body. She was, indeed, a care-giver to her core, hoping to be an occupational therapist when she grew up, just like her mother. With an unwavering faith in the goodness of others, Evelyn made people feel known, seen, but never judged."

She loved crafting and drawing, and was filled with curiosity, eagerness and clarity. She has been described as having the presence of an old soul with a 'whip smart' sense of humor.

View attachment 412273

Covenant school student Evelyn Dieckhaus, 9, was 'a shining light in this world'

Evelyn Dieckhaus, 9, was a third grader at the Covenant School in Nashville.

www.tennessean.com

Thank you for linking these, @steeltowngirl . Both are beautiful tributes.

 

[loveisthemovement]

I'm feeling the same, Jennie.

Wanted to be a child again, but slaughtered 3 of them.

Make it make sense.

I find this super interesting in a psychological way. She seemed to have a fixation on middle school years, the middle school basketball team and she herself mentioned hat she had a childlike whimsy. So to then turn to murdering children....it's just so odd. One would think she would highly value the lives of younger folks. Maybe it was envy?

 

[WingsOverTX]

I find this super interesting in a psychological way. She seemed to have a fixation on middle school years, the middle school basketball team and she herself mentioned hat she had a childlike whimsy. So to then turn to murdering children....it's just so odd. One would think she would highly value the lives of younger folks. Maybe it was envy?

Mass murderer of six in her own words:

"So basically that post I made on here about you, that was basically a suicide note. I'm planning to die today. THIS IS NOT A JOKE!!!!" Hale wrote to Patton via messages shared with NewsChannel 5 Nashville. "You'll probably hear about me on the news after I die."

"This is my last goodbye. I love you," Hale continued. "See you again in another life. Audrey (Aiden)."

Patton had responded to her, saying, "You have so much more life to live. I pray God keeps and covers you."

Hale told Patton her family had no idea what was about to happen and that "one day this will make more sense."

Patton told the local news station, "I tried to comfort and encourage her and subsequently reached out to the Suicide Prevention Help Line..."

Nashville shooting: Covenant shooter Audrey Hale's final text messages before massacre revealed

A former middle school basketball teammate of Covenant School shooter Audrey Hale received chilling messages from Hale on the morning of the mass shooting that led to the deaths of three adults and three children.

www.washingtonexaminer.com

It will NEVER make sense & AH saying it will shows just how out of touch with reality she was.

MHOO

 

[JennieM]

Custodian killed in Covenant School had a heart for kids, his family says​

Big Mike. That’s how students of The Covenant School in Nashville knew and will remember custodian Michael Hill.

“My dad loved children, absolutely adored children,” Brittany Hill said Thursday.

“All of the messages we have received — through Facebook and Instagram and text messages — were all about how the kids loved Big Mike,” she said.

Michael Hill, 61, was a religious and praying man who was known for corny “dad jokes” and the pet names he adored calling his seven children, they said.

Joshua Smith said his father would have been devastated to know that children had also died.

"In this situation, I think it’s a normal thing to be upset and frustrated and angry — but those are the things that slowly eat you up over time,” Smith said. "I believe our dad would want us to show compassion — compassion to one another and to any family that’s been affected by a tragedy.”

Custodian killed in Nashville school shooting School had a heart for kids, his family says

Michael Hill, a custodian at the Nashville school and a father of seven, was one of three adults and three children killed when a shooter attacked Monday.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[WingsOverTX]

Custodian killed in Covenant School had a heart for kids, his family says​

Big Mike. That’s how students of The Covenant School in Nashville knew and will remember custodian Michael Hill.

“My dad loved children, absolutely adored children,” Brittany Hill said Thursday.

“All of the messages we have received — through Facebook and Instagram and text messages — were all about how the kids loved Big Mike,” she said.

Michael Hill, 61, was a religious and praying man who was known for corny “dad jokes” and the pet names he adored calling his seven children, they said.

Joshua Smith said his father would have been devastated to know that children had also died.

"In this situation, I think it’s a normal thing to be upset and frustrated and angry — but those are the things that slowly eat you up over time,” Smith said. "I believe our dad would want us to show compassion — compassion to one another and to any family that’s been affected by a tragedy.”

Custodian killed in Nashville school shooting School had a heart for kids, his family says

Michael Hill, a custodian at the Nashville school and a father of seven, was one of three adults and three children killed when a shooter attacked Monday.

www.nbcnews.com

Mr. Hill's light shines so bright in this horrible tragedy. He's still giving back even now. RIP to one who led by example.
MOO

 

[Sundog]

Hallie Scruggs Remembered As 'Beautiful, Big, Huge Light'​

In her final days, Hallie enjoyed a mission trip to Belize "where she was really excited about having her hair braided, but she had a very big heart for loving people and for serving people," Kara said.

Like her brothers, Hallie also was passionate about playing sports, Kara said.
[…]

"She was very athletic, loved to play sports, soccer and basketball, especially all the games I saw she always scored like a million goals," she said. "She was just ... Having three big brothers that are all very athletic she just was very athletic and loved to play. She was definitely no princess. She was right there with her big brothers every step of the way and ready to get into anything, and there was no challenge she wasn't ready for. She was just a beautiful, big, huge light."

View attachment 412274

Nashville School Shooting Victim Hallie Scruggs Remembered As 'Beautiful, Big, Huge Light'

Hallie Scruggs aunt shares sweet memories and moments of the 9-year-old after she was shot and killed in a shooting at a private school in Nashville.

people.com

From Kara, Hallie's aunt, and Pastor Scruggs' sister -

Kara praised Hallie's parents for their strength.

"I honestly don't know anyone on this earth that has more strength and grace than Chad and Jada, and that is the absolute truth because I could not get out of bed this morning, so I don't know how they're doing it but I know they can," she says.

 

[formerlyme]

I wonder about the "emotional disorder" and what kind of therapy she was receiving or had received.

regarding the article, this would have been prior to Elliot Page becoming Elliot so I think it is not as meaningful as the article implies.