TN - Shooting at private Christian Covenant School, Nashville, suspect dead, multiple victims, 27 Mar 2023 #2

[GoBuckeyes]

Oh for sure, you're right, a potential criminal doesn't need a manifesto from another criminal in order to do bad deeds.

It's just that the media coverage of these shootings is so sensational, that it tends to attract like-minded folks who think they, too, might get revenge in a similar manner.

My only concern is making it look as though the perp has any sort of valid gripe against society. I just hate seeing the shooters (even if they're dead) get that much attention. Because I think lot of them are seeking that attention.

That ship has sailed. The media was immediately accusatory toward the school and church where the shooter attended classes. So was the LGBTQ community, equally accusatory toward the school and church. AJMOO

 

[Cindizzi]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1666849946308423693

NASHVILLE, Tenn. (WTVF) — There were more legal maneuverings in court Thursday surrounding the writings of the Covenant School shooter.

Five different groups have asked the court to release all the documents Metro Police obtained from the shooter. All five — the Tennessee Firearms Association, National Police Association, the Tennessee Star, The Tennessean newspaper, and Sen. Todd Gardenhire — have argued continuously for the release of all the documents.

When police searched the shooter's car and home the day of the shooting, they collected dozens of things including guns, a suicide note, journals, and more.

Originally, Thursday's court date was supposed to be a show cause hearing. But instead focused on whether the judge should issue a stay on her previous order granting the Covenant parents the right to have a say in whether the shooter's writings should be released to the public.

In a surprise move, an attorney for the parents of the shooter told the court the family would like to hand over all rights and ownership of the shooter's writings to the children of the school.

Attorney David Raybin — who is representing the gunman's parents — argues the shooter's writings are the property of the parents and they should get to decide what happens to them. If the judge agrees - the victims' families could theoretically decide what happens to the writings. If that request is granted - the writings would likely never be made public. Critics say that would mean the public would never know the motive behind the crime.

[…]

Parents of Covenant shooter want to hand over writings to victims' families

The attorney representing the parents of The Covenant School shooter says they want to hand over all rights and ownership of the writings to the children of the school.

www.newschannel5.com

 

[Cindizzi]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1666841264711401474

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1666853153415868436

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1666859067682304021

 

[Ontario Mom]

It really does make you wonder, what they're trying so hard to hide. Or, who.

jmo

 

[GoBuckeyes]

Not direct at you personally, but just jumping off your post to say I don't buy that claim at all.
Lots of criminals tend to idolize and admire other criminals without ever reading any sort of manifesto from them.
They saw what the person did because the media covered it, and they were sickeningly impressed because they are already themselves in that mindset that this is something they're going to do. No manifesto needed (for them) because that cat is already out of the bag - it's already been covered extensively by the media.

Releasing this manifesto isn't a matter of satisfying anyone's curiosity (or at least it shouldn't be), it's a matter of understanding what was going in this person's head that led them to this. Who or what influenced them, encouraged them, motivated them. And if at all possible, addressing THAT issue, or those issues head on, collectively as a society. We can all see something is broken, but we can't address it if we don't know what it is.

jmo

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1666849946308423693

NASHVILLE, Tenn. (WTVF) — There were more legal maneuverings in court Thursday surrounding the writings of the Covenant School shooter.

Five different groups have asked the court to release all the documents Metro Police obtained from the shooter. All five — the Tennessee Firearms Association, National Police Association, the Tennessee Star, The Tennessean newspaper, and Sen. Todd Gardenhire — have argued continuously for the release of all the documents.

When police searched the shooter's car and home the day of the shooting, they collected dozens of things including guns, a suicide note, journals, and more.

Originally, Thursday's court date was supposed to be a show cause hearing. But instead focused on whether the judge should issue a stay on her previous order granting the Covenant parents the right to have a say in whether the shooter's writings should be released to the public.

In a surprise move, an attorney for the parents of the shooter told the court the family would like to hand over all rights and ownership of the shooter's writings to the children of the school.

Attorney David Raybin — who is representing the gunman's parents — argues the shooter's writings are the property of the parents and they should get to decide what happens to them. If the judge agrees - the victims' families could theoretically decide what happens to the writings. If that request is granted - the writings would likely never be made public. Critics say that would mean the public would never know the motive behind the crime.

[…]

Parents of Covenant shooter want to hand over writings to victims' families

The attorney representing the parents of The Covenant School shooter says they want to hand over all rights and ownership of the writings to the children of the school.

www.newschannel5.com

Of course they'd want that. They know that that way, info will never be released.

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

It really does make you wonder, what they're trying so hard to hide. Or, who.

jmo

We don't know that anyone outside of LE has even seen the writings.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

Is it because of the question of whether this qualifies as a hate crime? I don't know.

GOP reps ask for Nashville shooting to be classified a hate crime

A pair of Republican representatives have sent a letter to Attorney General Merrick Garland, requesting that the suspect in the Nashville school shooting be charged with hate crimes. Three students…

thehill.com

There should be no debate as to whether this was a hate crime. She targeted a specific school run by a specific church. If this were in any other context, it would be crystal clear. If this happened in a synagogue, a mosque... It seems to be open season on Christians, both literally and figuratively with what will surely be hate speech in the manifesto. ALL MY OPINION ONLY

 

[housewife]

Respectfully,
Scientists, researchers, and other experts really aren’t ordering you to think anything.
Their job is to study numbers and qualitative data and present what they found, good or bad. An expert will draw more accurate conclusions from that data than the layman.
We don’t have to follow what the experts say, but we all benefit when we do.

We can all have opinions and not everyone is lucky enough to obtain a good education, but how can we live in a common sense society if we ignore the advice of experts?

 

[GoBuckeyes]

What if the shooter provided it in her manifesto? iirc, she only went to school there two years. I think something happened which is why her parents pulled her out of there.

JMO

What do you think happened?

 

[GoBuckeyes]

Respectfully,
Scientists, researchers, and other experts really aren’t ordering you to think anything.
Their job is to study numbers and qualitative data and present what they found, good or bad. An expert will draw more accurate conclusions from that data than the layman.
We don’t have to follow what the experts say, but we all benefit when we do.

We can all have opinions and not everyone is lucky enough to obtain a good education, but how can we live in a common sense society if we ignore the advice of experts?

I disagree. We don't have to look very far in the past to see where experts were dead wrong. Regardless, this shouldn't be exclusively in the hands of experts. Lay people should have complete and unfettered access.

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

There should be no debate as to whether this was a hate crime. She targeted a specific school run by a specific church. If this were in any other context, it would be crystal clear. If this happened in a synagogue, a mosque... It seems to be open season on Christians, both literally and figuratively with what will surely be hate speech in the manifesto. ALL MY OPINION ONLY

School shootings aren't generally hate crimes.

 

[elevatorific]

There should be no debate as to whether this was a hate crime. She targeted a specific school run by a specific church. If this were in any other context, it would be crystal clear. If this happened in a synagogue, a mosque... It seems to be open season on Christians, both literally and figuratively with what will surely be hate speech in the manifesto. ALL MY OPINION ONLY

Well then surely Covenant and the victims' families will be first in line to want the shooter's writings public.

 

[PrairieWind]

School shootings aren't generally hate crimes.

But how can we decide if the government won't release the most important piece of evidence to determine if it was a hate crime?

 

[Ontario Mom]

But how can we decide if the government won't release the most important piece of evidence to determine if it was a hate crime?

The only argument I've seen so far that says this wasn't a hate crime, is that the school was only chosen because the shooter knew they'd have no security there (because she was familiar with the school).

Given that the pastor's daughter is one of the children she murdered that day and that she had 5 years worth of yearbooks from the school in her house (when she only attended for 2 years, from what's been reported in the media), I'm going to call baloney on that one. Something about that school drew her there, and it wasn't just the lack of security. She had a murderous hatred for someone or something, connected to that school.

jmo

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

The only argument I've seen so far that says this wasn't a hate crime, is that the school was only chosen because the shooter knew they'd have no security there (because she was familiar with the school).

There's that the shooter went there so had a personal connection, which is typical for school shootings.

Given that the pastor's daughter is one of the children she murdered that day and that she had 5 years worth of yearbooks from the school in her house (when she only attended for 2 years, from what's been reported in the media), I'm going to call baloney on that one. Something about that school drew her there, and it wasn't just the lack of security. She had a murderous hatred for someone or something, connected to that school.

A hate crime is one motivated by bigotry against a group, by race, creed or other characteristic. What you're describing is a personal grievance against a specific place and not a broad group and so would be an argument against it being a hate crime.

 

[Ontario Mom]

how can we live in a common sense society if we ignore the advice of experts?

<RSBM>

I'm sure it wasn't intentional but your comment did make me laugh.
When the "advice of experts" completely contradicts common sense, it's quite easy to ignore.

In any case, I don't believe for a moment that keeping Audrey Hale's writings from the public is to prevent a copycat.
I strongly suspect it's far more of a social politics decision.

jmo

 

[mooseandcoffee]

According to this (and previous discussions in this thread), Hale had also documented plans to attack a mall and family members. That does not suggest a hate crime to me, although H obviously chose the school.

What we know about the Nashville school shooter Audrey Hale

Mental health treatment, a manifesto and plans for further attacks and chilling final messages to a friend. Here’s what we know about the Nashville school shooter

www.independent.co.uk

 

[PrairieWind]

There's that the shooter went there so had a personal connection, which is typical for school shootings.



A hate crime is one motivated by bigotry against a group, by race, creed or other characteristic. What you're describing is a personal grievance against a specific place and not a broad group and so would be an argument against it being a hate crime.

But we can't determine that without seeing the writings. I think it is safe to say that the public no longer has much trust in LE to make these determinations themselves.

 

[mooseandcoffee]

But we can't determine that without seeing the writings. I think it is safe to say that the public no longer has much trust in LE to make these determinations themselves.

Because......?

 

[elevatorific]

But we can't determine that without seeing the writings. I think it is safe to say that the public no longer has much trust in LE to make these determinations themselves.

Are you implying that LE and FBI BAU investigators also harbor anti-Christian sentiment? I guess some might, but I don't think the majority do.