TN - Shooting at private Christian Covenant School, Nashville, suspect dead, multiple victims, 27 Mar 2023 #2

[waldojabba]

I have so many thoughts, feelings and questions about what happened.

I have not put my two cents in because I would lean towards the thought that, as often, people are not going to agree with or like what I have to say.

If anyone reads this and takes the time to process it, I have to start with this:

What the shooter did is the lowest action that any individual can take in this lifetime. It is deplorable, disgusting. No amount of abuse they MAY have suffered will be explained or leveled by the murder of innocents.

My THEORY is killer was admonished daily by their family because of their orientation. The family is religious. This type of lifestyle to them was a choice. They were embarrassed and ashamed that their child could be anything but a straight person that followed their path.

If the Manifesto were to be released, some questions would be answered that loom large.

Was conversion therapy used? Did the killer feel that everyone was against them?

We know that there was Asperger's or some type of Autism that put the killer on the spectrum, don't we? Could that have played a part in not being able or possibly allowed to have healthy coping mechanisms?

To me, it sounds as though this killer always felt like an abomination. Now, they proved that very thing to be true.

I would also like to remind people about certain laws being passed in Tennessee that target certain types of people.

Maybe with everything thrown together, it was enough for this killer to flip a switch.

Yes, the manifesto should be public. It's the law. No, it will NEVER explain or excuse what this person has done.

Child and animal killers are the absolute worst.
Period.

IMO, Something important in those documents holds information that exposes treatment of certain people. I don't know by whom. But it's there and that is probably why this is being held back.

This is the United States. It's public information. Redact names. Redact addresses and phone numbers. Protect the victims.

This is ALL. JMO

 

[waldojabba]

@Ravenmoon I am on my phone and was trying to reply to your post but there seems to be a glitch of some sort. I wanted to thank you for your thoughts and acknowledge that IMO your sense of what may have occurred is quite plausible and a scenario that has been at the forefront of my mind.
Hard to say for sure at this point but logic leads the way for me with the info we do know. And agree also there are never any excuses to be made for the unimaginable killings. Just IMO.

 

[GRT]

I understand the feelings on both sides of this issue. Many are trying to comprehend what drove Hale to such a dastardly deed and feel that answers may lie in the killer's manifesto, art, and other writings. I get that. I want to see those things, too.

But there's something more significant in play here. The Law Enforcement Center at Texas State University has adopted a Don't Name Them policy, which makes sense. They take an academic and statistical approach to show how widespread coverage of a mass shooter's identity and reasons for their actions increases the risk of more copycat shootings.

I read an interesting and disturbing interview by an Arizona State physicist who explains the problem.

As the Don't Name Them group says, in the US, we have freedom of the Press, so we can't enact laws that force the Press not to cover the events, but we can encourage them not to sensationalize. The push to end (or at least reduce) coverage of shooters is known as No Notoriety, and it includes an admonition not to publish manifestos.

Law enforcement has said Hale was influenced by other mass shooters.

"The killer studied previous mass murders while plotting the attack, he said.

This is another common trait among mass murderers, Ramsland said.
“They study other mission-based killers to learn strategies and avoid mistakes because they seek maximum impact,” she told Fox News Digital.

But, there is something beyond that: the Church where Hale went on the rampage does not want the records released to the public. That's what their intervention in the lawsuit is about. The parents of the slain children may simply want to reduce the risk of another tragedy, or they could be afraid something in Hale's writings will show them in a bad light. We don't know.

I would like to know what Hale wrote, especially now that the Church doesn't want the public to know. But, after reading about the "contagion effect," I'm willing to reluctantly forego reading the documents if keeping them private will keep from feeding another mentally ill person's sick desire for posthumous notoriety.

 

[mooseandcoffee]

I think that's probably why--because it seems (from what we now know) that the church was targeted based on some warped sense of revenge.

IMO, perhaps the shooter wanted revenge for the church not accepting his/her lifestyle. If so, it wouldn't qualify as a hate crime.

Also, a part of designating something as a hate crime "often adds an additional penalty to the underlying charge." This is not an issue here, as H is already dead.

What is a hate crime? The narrow legal definition makes it hard to charge and convict

Bias-motivated attacks became a distinct crime in the 1980s. But police investigate only a fraction of the roughly 200,000 hate crimes reported each year – and even fewer ever make it to court.

theconversation.com

 

[mooseandcoffee]

That's just it. They aren't releasing the information for unknown reasons. So, we really don't know for certain what was going through Audrey's mind when she committed these heinous murders.

In my opinion, just as every race can and does have some racist members, so, too, can every religion experience a hate crime perpetuated against its members. (If we're going to have that designation on the books.) I'm not a fan of that designation either. In my view it's applied very unequally across crimes and perpetuators. I'd be fine if they did away with it. Audrey obviously didn't commit these crimes with love in her heart for the victims. AMOO

I guess proving a hate crime is perhaps easier if someone breaks into a church, mosque or synagogue and specifically destroys or defaces religious artifacts.

This was a school shooting, and the school was part of a congregation. He previously attended that school and that could have contributed to his mindset. Perhaps he targeted that school simply because he had knowledge of the layout. We don't know.

I totally understand people wanting to read the manifesto and know. I get it. Personally, I am not going to read it should it ever be released.

I do see both sides of that issue.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

On Thursday, June 15, the Nashville Sounds baseball team will wear jerseys that are specially designed in honor of Nashville and the victims of the Covenant School shooting.

The jerseys are a deep navy blue, with five white lines along the front and the abbreviation "NASH" printed over the shape of a guitar pick.

The sleeve of the jerseys features a heart that says "Covenant Strong," with all the names of the Covenant shooting victims listed inside the heart.

The jerseys are available for auction online until June 22. All the proceeds from the auction will benefit VictimsFirst and the Covenant School shooting victim's families.

Nashville Sounds jerseys will honor the victims of the Covenant school shooting

On Tuesday, June 15, the Nashville Sounds baseball team will wear jerseys that are specially designed in honor of Nashville and the victims of the Covenant School shooting.

www.newschannel5.com

 

[Elley Mae]

Covenant School shooter shot four times by police: See full autopsy report

FOX 17 News has obtained the autopsy report for the Covenant School shooter who was shot and killed by Metro Nashville Police on March 27.

fox17.com

Hale Autopsy Report | PDF

Hale Autopsy Report

www.scribd.com

 

[iamshadow21]

Covenant School shooter shot four times by police: See full autopsy report

FOX 17 News has obtained the autopsy report for the Covenant School shooter who was shot and killed by Metro Nashville Police on March 27.

fox17.com

Hale Autopsy Report | PDF

Hale Autopsy Report

www.scribd.com

I am not a doctor... but looks like three of the four shots on their own could have killed him. The torso shot, for sure. The headshot didn't penetrate the skull but did fracture it. And the thigh shot, if the femoral artery was one of the blood vessels hit.

No brain abnormalities mentioned. So, no big old undiagnosed tumor that contributed to impulse control or aggression.

The basic tox they mention in the autopsy report suggests that he wasn't drunk or high. No idea what the expanded report tells us, way beyond my knowledge.

All very much my opinions and inferences, I am not a medical person of any kind.

 

[Shamrock1]

What are the handwritten words, numbers, and images on the T-shirt and bra as noted in autopsy report?

 

[housewife]

What are the handwritten words, numbers, and images on the T-shirt and bra as noted in autopsy report?

I would find that information very interesting, the shooter was trying to express something. Would it be new/different information than the journals?

Also noticed the t-shirt with a shooting range logo, is it a local range in the area? Are they familiar with the shooter? Or was it bought online? Free gift with gun purchase?

Edit: combined posts

 

[housewife]

dbm

 

[Sundog]

I would find that information very interesting, the shooter was trying to express something. Would it be new/different information than the journals?

Also noticed the t-shirt with a shooting range logo, is it a local range in the area? Are they familiar with the shooter? Or was it bought online? Free gift with gun purchase?

Edit: combined posts

Before shooting, Audrey Hale repeatedly trained at local gun ranges

Photograph shows suspected shooter at gun range in May 2022.

www.wsmv.com

She frequented several shooting ranges in the area.

 

[Cindizzi]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1670853501868441600

[…]

WHERE THE COURT CASE IS

The documents are at the center of a legal battle over whether they should be released to the public.

Chancellor I'Ashea Myles is overseeing the case. Myles previously ruled that the Covenant church, school, and families could have a say in what if any, documents should be released.

Metro Police said the shooter had several journals detailing plans for the shooting and had been planning the attack for months. So far, police have indicated it would take a year to analyze all of the writings and documents from the shooter. As of last week, the writings — still in possession of the Metro Nashville Police Department — would go into the newly established Covenant Children's Trust.

It's not clear when, if ever, those documents would make it into the hand of the families. Right now all the documents are in police custody.

The case is set to be in court again on July 12.

[…]

 

[JennieM]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1670853501868441600

[…]

WHERE THE COURT CASE IS

The documents are at the center of a legal battle over whether they should be released to the public.

Chancellor I'Ashea Myles is overseeing the case. Myles previously ruled that the Covenant church, school, and families could have a say in what if any, documents should be released.

Metro Police said the shooter had several journals detailing plans for the shooting and had been planning the attack for months. So far, police have indicated it would take a year to analyze all of the writings and documents from the shooter. As of last week, the writings — still in possession of the Metro Nashville Police Department — would go into the newly established Covenant Children's Trust.

It's not clear when, if ever, those documents would make it into the hand of the families. Right now all the documents are in police custody.

The case is set to be in court again on July 12.

[…]

I really think that the very least we can do is to respect their wish.

When someone loses a loved one we ask them "what can we do for you?" Well, they are telling us what they need.

 

[Ontario Mom]

I really think that the very least we can do is to respect their wish.

When someone loses a loved one we ask them "what can we do for you?" Well, they are telling us what they need.

With all due respect to the grieving parents, they're telling the public what they've been told - that releasing her manifesto will cause more damage, and keep the cycle of mass shootings going. Unfortunately, historical data tells us that mass shootings will continue to happen whether this particular manifesto is released or not.

I think the public deserves the opportunity to read this murderer's writings for themselves, and decide for themselves, if they are of any value into understanding her motives.

jmo

 

[tlcya]

all due respect to the general public, LE says it would not be useful to release it, grieving parents have begged that it not be released. The parents agree that the release of a summary and police reports might be useful for the purposes of better understanding the motivations of the shooter and preventing future shootings. The parents are in a unique position. One that sits much closer to the horror of that day than the general public. They are choosing to believe what authorities have told them about the probative value or lack thereof of this sick person's writings. But some in the public feel they know better what possible benefit of releasing the writings might provide. Better than those closest to this situation, better than authorities, better than the judge.

But the public will continue to go on and on about their alleged "right to know". Mass shootings will indeed continue to happen. regardless. However, the next mass shooter will have to start from jump while coming up with their sick plans rather than having an outline or template created by the Covenant shooter.

I personally find the whole public has a right to know argument in this particular case extremely distasteful. IMO MOO Further the media, who is driving this campaign to get the journals, has acted horribly in this case JMO

 

[waldojabba]

My feeling is that there are no right or wrong opinion on this - just different viewpoints.
It will play out legally and we will see what happens.
Everyone has a right to share and feel heard without judgement.
Just my 2 cents - worth no more or less than anyone else’s IMO