TN - Shooting at private Christian Covenant School, Nashville, suspect dead, multiple victims, 27 Mar 2023 #2

[YepperBepper]

I think you said it very well, myself. I too await the manifesto. I know some don't want to read it. But I would prefer to read what the shooter said than to speculate on motive without reading it.

IMO.

Speculation leads to a lot of pain, rumor and hurt....like a disease of sorts. As always, sunlight is the best disinfectant.

I don't like other people telling me second hand what to believe or think. It's like a dangerous game of childhood "telephone". Chaos. Innuendo. Rumor.

We already saw the perp at shooting practice, the pre murder Instagram post, the surveillance footage and the body cam. These things are all "dangerous" in the wrong hands, IMHO. The manifesto is no more dangerous.... especially to the younger generation (and mass killers are usually young) whose every day life is in "real time" and would likely prefer the videos.

 

[formerlyme]

Possibly. But part of why I speculate that wasn't what Hale was referring to, is because I'm not convinced they even thought of what they were about to do as "bad".

And the text message also (IIRC) said that things would be explained or clear/understood later. Unless this was a reference to the manifesto, I'm not sure it meant "immediately after the shooting" because here we are, very much unclear what the heck was the intended message behind such a horrible act.

MOO

maybe they thought them being shot by police was the bad thing?

 

[YepperBepper]

When I watched the body cam footage, towards the beginning when Officer Engelbert raised his gun in the first classroom it looked like to me like his hand was shaking. My immediate thought was, if it was shaking due to fear (whether for himself, the children and teachers, his fellow officers or all of the above - and rightly so because it would be ridiculous to expect police officers should be immune to fear in a dangerous situation), how brave he was to just keep charging forward while also keeping his cool. No hesitation. And they way the officers just knew how to move around each other, cover each other, etc all with hardly saying a word was almost like watching a dance, to use a ridiculous analogy.

I felt some military experience there...maybe I'm wrong. Imho

 

[YepperBepper]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

I read the majority of manifestos available in cases I follow. The recent shooter in Buffalo had one. Read that. The Walmart shooter in Virginia had one, as well. Read that. They were both unceremoniously released without objection (to my knowledge).

As for TK...whenever I find myself stopping at a red light in the middle of the night with no other traffic....I wonder why.

 

[calmdownjudy]

This might be an unpopular opinion, but I think the manifestos are bullcrap. They probably don't mean anything and are shocking for the sake of being shocking.

This person wanted attention and committed this awful, evil crime for it. This person chose a location because this person wanted to hurt a lot of people. This person texted someone about the manifestos because this person wanted it released that there was one.

I'm not really sure how to word this right but the only positive thing in this situation (if there even is one), is that this didn't happen how this person wanted it to. I don't think this person was expecting LE to respond as quickly and efficiently as they did. I don't think this person expected the body cam footage to be released either. I'm not sure about all MSM everywhere, but, from the media I'm watching/reading, the focus of this crime is more on the heroic police officers, victims, and calling for change. So I hope LE doesn't release the manifestos because it's one less thing this person got, if that makes sense.

All of this is MOO.

 

[YepperBepper]

This might be an unpopular opinion, but I think the manifestos are bullcrap. They probably don't mean anything and are shocking for the sake of being shocking.

This person wanted attention and committed this awful, evil crime for it. This person chose a location because this person wanted to hurt a lot of people. This person texted someone about the manifestos because this person wanted it released that there was one.

I'm not really sure how to word this right but the only positive thing in this situation (if there even is one), is that this didn't happen how this person wanted it to. I don't think this person was expecting LE to respond as quickly and efficiently as they did. I don't think this person expected the body cam footage to be released either. I'm not sure about all MSM everywhere, but, from the media I'm watching/reading, the focus of this crime is more on the heroic police officers, victims, and calling for change. So I hope LE doesn't release the manifestos because it's one less thing this person got, if that makes sense.

All of this is MOO.

I think it's an even split here on the release (which is refreshing).

Ps...love your user name.

 

[SteveP]

It is very seldom that people closest to these mass shooters ever acknowledge seeing any red flags in a shooter's life until after the fact, if even then, so knowing what one particular shooter's motive was, assuming the bs they write is actually anything other than bs, is not likely going to help prevent the next one. If you have a 28-year old child still living in your home, who is struggling with his/her/their own identity, and they have seven weapons, including at least two long guns, you are totally unaware of, I don't think knowing what some other previous shooter's motive was is going to be particularly helpful in preventing another tragedy. JMO

 

[JennieM]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

Those in line to be the next infamous killer anticipate the gratification of their glorious manifestos to be bestowed upon us. It's not just about those who are already dead.

I can't control if someone goes to a school to shoot innocent children, but I can have control over not reading their baloney. That's my take.

<modsnip:>

I believe you can discuss a case on this site without necessarily having read someone's manifesto.

 

[Cindizzi]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1641499021637296133

 

[Cindizzi]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1641499021637296133

They added another comment to this tweet:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1641518495253819394

 

[sandy_80]

So, on last thread, people tried to help me out by saying rage is self-affirming and makes a person feel purposeful, perhaps even happy.

I'm so confused. Obviously, that can't be the only way to define rage. Feeling purposeful is not rage.

Are there people who feel useless UNTIL they feel rage? Is that what people mean when they say "rage"? Or "passion"?

At any rate, I now have human- generated definitions of "rage" that point in different directions. Something more is needed.

And I'll go back to the desire to self-harm/suicide. Is this something that, like rage, is universal and self-activating?

For now, I'm going to go with no one has an explanation for what just happened in TN.

IMO.

there is no such thing as a definition of anything
its all perspective and opinion and ( personal interests ) and beliefs
ive felt ( rage ) all of my life...i've faced injustice and abuse and bullying since i've been a child till my adult years...and while it eating me away .. it never made me act in a negative way even against those who damaged me..it never made me aggressive in any way.. quite the opposite.. it made me more human
does that mean you will directed to self harm as an outlet ...this is too complicated but itrs true in a way

 

[ReadySet]

In regard to AH not knowing about attention they received after they were dead:
AH may have gotten a lot of pleasure and enjoyment from thinking about how they would be famous and talked about and paid attention to after they were gone. "I'll show them!" Depending on how long they had been planning this, they could have reveled in these feelings for months.
Just like SOME people who are contemplating suicide enjoy thinking about how people will miss them when they are gone.
Deranged thinking, turned to harm of others or self.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Interesting. I recently read that -
Evidence from the 10 available prospective follow-up studies from childhood to adolescence (reviewed in the study by Ristori and Steensma28) indicates that for ~80% of children who meet the criteria for GDC, the GD recedes with puberty. Instead, many of these adolescents will identify as non-heterosexual.

Gender dysphoria in adolescence: current perspectives | AHMT

Gender dysphoria in adolescence: current perspectives Riittakerttu Kaltiala-Heino,1–3 Hannah Bergman,4 Marja Työläjärvi,2 Louise Frisén4 1Faculty of Medicine and Life Sciences, University of Tampere, Tampere, Finland; 2Department of Adolescent Psychiatry, Tampere University Hospital, Tampere...

www.dovepress.com

I'm seeing an alarming amount of people on social media who seem to fit that description. MOO

Excellent research article. Thank you.
I am sure many of us do have such children in our circles, as I do.

 

[10ofRods]

there is no such thing as a definition of anything
its all perspective and opinion and ( personal interests ) and beliefs
ive felt ( rage ) all of my life...i've faced injustice and abuse and bullying since i've been a child till my adult years...and while it eating me away .. it never made me act in a negative way even against those who damaged me..it never made me aggressive in any way.. quite the opposite.. it made me more human
does that mean you will directed to self harm as an outlet ...this is too complicated but itrs true in a way

Okay. I can't find a single way to discuss that.

I think there's an objective reality out there, myself.

I'm sorry you had rage (I am so interested in hearing about it - but you're right, there's no definition of it, so no point, really in trying to discuss it). I am still working on trying to understand what people mean by the word.

IMO.

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

911 calls reveal terror at Nashville school during attack

NASHVILLE, Tenn. (AP) — Authorities released 911 recordings on Thursday that capture the terror inside a Nashville elementary school during a mass shooting this week, as callers pleaded for help in…

www.wdtn.com

Authorities released 911 recordings on Thursday that capture the terror inside a Nashville elementary school during a mass shooting this week, as callers pleaded for help in hushed voices while sirens, crying and gunfire could be heard in the background.

 

[justtrish]

'We need someone now': Metro Police release 911 calls made during The Covenant School shooting on Monday

Metro Police have released the 911 calls made during The Covenant School Shooting. Listen with caution.

www.newschannel5.com

911 calls have been released.

 

[formerlyme]

I have been saying the staff deserves a lot of credit. Must be surreal for this guy to have trained them and now see the school.

He trained The Covenant School for an active shooter. He said kids are alive because of it.

The Covenant School's teachers and staff performed "flawlessly." That's what the instructor of their active shooter training is saying.

www.newschannel5.com

 

[Betamax]

IMO there will be a lot of interest in AH's manifesto only because this is a rarity involving a woman (biological female) that did the killing.

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

'We need somebody fast.' New 911 calls capture pleas for help as dozens of shots fired inside school

Dozens of 911 calls reveal the chaos as teachers and students hid during the Covenant School shooting in Nashville.

www.usatoday.com

Three calls released.

A total of 24 calls came in during the shooting, according to Emergency Communications Director Steve Martini. He said the remaining calls will be released by 6 p.m. Thursday.

1. The first call came in at 10:12 a.m. from a man who said he was walking with a group of several children. Other voices could be heard in the background as they tried for several minutes to describe where the school was located and what part of the building the shooter was in.

2. The next call came in seconds later from a woman who said she was in a closet of the art room in the school. She was speaking in a whisper, her voice quavering, as she gently shushed students around her.

"I want to go home," a child said in the background.
The woman tried to describe what she was hearing. The sound of blaring alarms was in the background, along with a few sniffles and people gently shushing one another. Part way through the call, the woman said she heard more shots ringing out.

"Please hurry," the woman said. "I'm hearing more shots.

3. The third call came in less than a minute later at 10:13 a.m. from a man who said he was hiding in second floor room in the school. The alarms could be heard in his call, too.
“I think the shooter's on the second floor," he said.

 

[YepperBepper]

'We need somebody fast.' New 911 calls capture pleas for help as dozens of shots fired inside school

Dozens of 911 calls reveal the chaos as teachers and students hid during the Covenant School shooting in Nashville.

www.usatoday.com

Three calls released.

A total of 24 calls came in during the shooting, according to Emergency Communications Director Steve Martini. He said the remaining calls will be released by 6 p.m. Thursday.

1. The first call came in at 10:12 a.m. from a man who said he was walking with a group of several children. Other voices could be heard in the background as they tried for several minutes to describe where the school was located and what part of the building the shooter was in.

2. The next call came in seconds later from a woman who said she was in a closet of the art room in the school. She was speaking in a whisper, her voice quavering, as she gently shushed students around her.

"I want to go home," a child said in the background.
The woman tried to describe what she was hearing. The sound of blaring alarms was in the background, along with a few sniffles and people gently shushing one another. Part way through the call, the woman said she heard more shots ringing out.

"Please hurry," the woman said. "I'm hearing more shots.

3. The third call came in less than a minute later at 10:13 a.m. from a man who said he was hiding in second floor room in the school. The alarms could be heard in his call, too.
“I think the shooter's on the second floor," he said.

'We need somebody fast.' New 911 calls capture pleas for help as dozens of shots fired inside school

Dozens of 911 calls reveal the chaos as teachers and students hid during the Covenant School shooting in Nashville.

www.usatoday.com

Three calls released.

A total of 24 calls came in during the shooting, according to Emergency Communications Director Steve Martini. He said the remaining calls will be released by 6 p.m. Thursday.

1. The first call came in at 10:12 a.m. from a man who said he was walking with a group of several children. Other voices could be heard in the background as they tried for several minutes to describe where the school was located and what part of the building the shooter was in.

2. The next call came in seconds later from a woman who said she was in a closet of the art room in the school. She was speaking in a whisper, her voice quavering, as she gently shushed students around her.

"I want to go home," a child said in the background.
The woman tried to describe what she was hearing. The sound of blaring alarms was in the background, along with a few sniffles and people gently shushing one another. Part way through the call, the woman said she heard more shots ringing out.

"Please hurry," the woman said. "I'm hearing more shots.

3. The third call came in less than a minute later at 10:13 a.m. from a man who said he was hiding in second floor room in the school. The alarms could be heard in his call, too.
“I think the shooter's on the second floor," he said.

Thank you.

As a general rule, I don't listen to these calls. I read the transcripts. Too much misery and nothing I can do to help.

Looking forward to the transcripts.

Imho