TN - Shooting at private Christian Covenant School, Nashville, suspect dead, multiple victims, 27 Mar 2023 #2

[MyJoey]

Think schools should be built right next to police stations, seems it would deter some shootings….just my thoughts.

 

[Eli9]

Think schools should be built right next to police stations, seems it would deter some shootings….just my thoughts.

With the amount of schools far outnumbering police stations it's just not possible. Sub stations? IDK

 

[whatsupp]

BBM. I've wondered if she studied other mass shootings because she pulled the fire alarm. I think her purpose was to summon police.

‘Radiant’ 9-Year-Old Killed While Leading Nashville Classmates to Safety, Family Believes

“We’re finding out the shooter may have pulled the fire alarm to get kids out of their classroom."

 

[10ofRods]

Very interesting! There are several things about this case that concern me. Hale drove right past the children on the playground in her own car. She could have opened fire from her car, sped away. Instead, she chose to enter the school and pulled the fire alarm knowing full well first responders would quickly be there.

The other thing she did was stop shooting at the students/teachers and turned her gun on the arriving police cruisers. I think she had a grudge against the government. The basis of that grudge, I can only speculate.

I think she planned extensive suicide (suicide by cop) well in advance. Every student I've interviewed who brought a gun on campus had suicidal ideation, usually documenting and usually telling other people they wanted to die, just as in this case.

Extensive suicide is not as well-studied as it could be. But one of my mentors said, "If a person is willing to kill themselves, which is a human tabu, they are willing to kill anyone and should be considered at risk of homicide as well." I agree.

I think this shooter was in that group. Hearing anyone say, "And I wanted to take these people with me" or "I want to take a lot of people with me" are two of the most chilling things I've ever heard someone say or write. Serial killers sometimes use similar language. Of course, inside jails and prisons, people say a lot of things and not everyone who says this is going to act on it. But within the workplace, I believe such statements should be taken very seriously and not laughed off (although, truthfully, most people are very afraid of upsetting such people further - the guy who shot the welfare office up near where I live - and killed a policeman in the chase following - was one such person; lots of people had heard him make threats, everyone knew he had guns, police said they could do nothing about wild talk, it's not like he walked around with his guns - this is California, he couldn't do that). He was likely on his way to shoot more people when he was himself brought down.

We know from 19th century studies by Durkheim that the rate of stranger murder (by whatever means) goes up, in urban settings and the rates soared when the car was invented. Anonymity, rapid get-away, etc. There's a lot to unpack.

IMO.

 

[Sundog]

BBM. I've wondered if she studied other mass shootings because she pulled the fire alarm. I think her purpose was to summon police. If she had wanted to shoot more students, there already was a large group outside and she drove right past them. I also wonder why schools are more concerned about fires than they are about the safety of their students and staff. Maybe fire alarm devices should be within reach of principals and doors be equipped with bulletproof glass.

Pulling the fire alarm would likely result in all the students leaving their classrooms and entering the hallway where they would be sitting ducks for the shooter.

 

[PawneeDew]

Pulling the fire alarm would likely result in all the students leaving their classrooms and entering the hallway where they would be sitting ducks for the shooter.

Yes, that makes sense.

 

[YepperBepper]

BBM. I've wondered if she studied other mass shootings because she pulled the fire alarm. I think her purpose was to summon police. If she had wanted to shoot more students, there already was a large group outside and she drove right past them. I also wonder why schools are more concerned about fires than they are about the safety of their students and staff. Maybe fire alarm devices should be within reach of principals and doors be equipped with bulletproof glass.

It was reported today in a link provided earlier that Hale studied other mass shooting cases. Cruz from Parkland purposely pulled the fire alarm to draw children out. He wanted more bang for the buck I suppose....and his death toll ended up being 17 or so?

Fortunately, it seems once the perp shot through the door...the school enacted their particular procedures for an active shooter...and did NOT respond to that alarm. I wonder if that was something added after parkland? Don't respond to fire alarm after active shooting procedure is initiated?

IMHO

 

[MyBelle]

I think she planned extensive suicide (suicide by cop) well in advance. Every student I've interviewed who brought a gun on campus had suicidal ideation, usually documenting and usually telling other people they wanted to die, just as in this case.

Extensive suicide is not as well-studied as it could be. But one of my mentors said, "If a person is willing to kill themselves, which is a human tabu, they are willing to kill anyone and should be considered at risk of homicide as well." I agree.

I think this shooter was in that group. Hearing anyone say, "And I wanted to take these people with me" or "I want to take a lot of people with me" are two of the most chilling things I've ever heard someone say or write. Serial killers sometimes use similar language. Of course, inside jails and prisons, people say a lot of things and not everyone who says this is going to act on it. But within the workplace, I believe such statements should be taken very seriously and not laughed off (although, truthfully, most people are very afraid of upsetting such people further - the guy who shot the welfare office up near where I live - and killed a policeman in the chase following - was one such person; lots of people had heard him make threats, everyone knew he had guns, police said they could do nothing about wild talk, it's not like he walked around with his guns - this is California, he couldn't do that). He was likely on his way to shoot more people when he was himself brought down.

We know from 19th century studies by Durkheim that the rate of stranger murder (by whatever means) goes up, in urban settings and the rates soared when the car was invented. Anonymity, rapid get-away, etc. There's a lot to unpack.

IMO.

BBM. I agree she planned this methodically for a long time. That manifesto and her journals will be so helpful to experts. The AG has said it's premature to call it a hate crime.

 

[Cappuccino]

BBM. I've wondered if she studied other mass shootings because she pulled the fire alarm. I think her purpose was to summon police. If she had wanted to shoot more students, there already was a large group outside and she drove right past them. I also wonder why schools are more concerned about fires than they are about the safety of their students and staff. Maybe fire alarm devices should be within reach of principals and doors be equipped with bulletproof glass.

I think her purpose in pulling the fire alarm was to bring the children out of their classrooms to make it easier to shoot them. She drove right past the group outside because they weren't in the plan she'd honed for months - she'd planned a horrific massacre of children in a school, the children out in the playground weren't in her scenario.

Trivial as this may sound, I don't think she was all that bright - she had a rigid plan walked through many times in her head, she simply wasn't intelligent enough to adapt it when she saw children outside where she didn't expect them to be.

As for the manifesto, whatever it may turn out to be, I hope it isn't her legacy. Her real legacy should be that she is remembered with utter contempt, if it is even worth bothering to remember such a piece of scum at all.

 

[MyBelle]

It was reported today in a link provided earlier that Hale studied other mass shooting cases. Cruz from Parkland purposely pulled the fire alarm to draw children out. He wanted more bang for the buck I suppose....and his death toll ended up being 17 or so?

Fortunately, it seems once the perp shot through the door...the school enacted their particular procedures for an active shooter...and did NOT respond to that alarm. I wonder if that was something added after parkland? Don't respond to fire alarm after active shooting procedure is initiated?

IMHO

I don't know if it is true in this case but because so many school shootings have involved pulling the fire alarm, many of those alarms trigger a LE and fire response which is why I think LE got there so quickly.

It's likely the teachers heard the gunshots and had those children take cover.

 

[K9Enzo]

She didn’t shoot the kids on the playground because there was no hunt in that. She’s deranged. I don’t know how much value there is in a case study of her, but she will be added to a list, non student adult. imo

 

[MyBelle]

I think her purpose in pulling the fire alarm was to bring the children out of their classrooms to make it easier to shoot them. She drove right past the group outside because they weren't in the plan she'd honed for months - she'd planned a horrific massacre of children in a school, the children out in the playground weren't in her scenario.

Trivial as this may sound, I don't think she was all that bright - she had a rigid plan walked through many times in her head, she simply wasn't intelligent enough to adapt it when she saw children outside where she didn't expect them to be.

As for the manifesto, whatever it may turn out to be, I hope it isn't her legacy. Her real legacy should be that she is remembered with utter contempt, if it is even worth bothering to remember such a piece of scum at all.

Her gunfire through the door would have been heard by staff and she would know that. I do believe she pulled the alarm to summon police. She had been a student at that school and may have remembered the drills for active shooter.

 

[MyBelle]

She didn’t shoot the kids on the playground because there was no hunt in that. She’s deranged. I don’t know how much value there is in a case study of her, but she will be added to a list, non student adult. imo

LE must have seen value in her writings because they sent it to the FBI BAU for careful analysis.

 

[Sundog]

BBM. I agree she planned this methodically for a long time. That manifesto and her journals will be so helpful to experts. The AG has said it's premature to call it a hate crime.

Do you have a link for that statement by the Attorney General? In his testimony before Congress that I watched, he said that the Dept of Justice was reviewing the case and it has yet to be determined if this was a hate crime or not.

 

[Cappuccino]

Her gunfire through the door would have been heard by staff and she would know that. I do believe she pulled the alarm to summon police. She had been a student at that school and may have remembered the drills for active shooter.

She pulled the alarm to bring children out into the hall so she could shoot them. She would have known that this was the only way to get them out in the hall after some of their teachers had heard gunfire.

 

[K9Enzo]

LE must have seen value in her writings because they sent it to the FBI BAU for careful analysis.

Yes, it’s evidence of multiple homicides. A crime. imo

 

[MyBelle]

Do you have a link for that statement by the Attorney General? In his testimony before Congress that I watched, he said that the Dept of Justice was reviewing the case and it has yet to be determined if this was a hate crime or not.

Isn't that what I said?

“We are certainly working full-time with them to try to determine what the motive is, and motive determines whether it’s a hate crime,” the attorney general said in testimony to the Senate Appropriations Committee.

Attorney General Garland: Too early to call Nashville shooting a hate crime

Attorney General Merrick Garland said Tuesday that it’s too early for the Justice Department to say whether the horrific shooting at a Christian school in Nashville should be considered a hate crime.

www.washingtontimes.com

 

[YepperBepper]

LE must have seen value in her writings because they sent it to the FBI BAU for careful analysis.

I think the writings of all mass and serial killers go to the FBI, BAU division. It is they who generally speak on what "type" of killer one is. I'd expect they'd like to come to a general conclusion on things before it's released by the public. Imho

 

[YepperBepper]

LE must have seen value in her writings because they sent it to the FBI BAU for careful analysis.

I think the writings of all mass and serial killers go to the FBI, BAU division. It is they who generally speak on what "type" of killer one is. I'd expect they'd like to come to a general conclusion on things before it's released by the public. Imho

 

[MyBelle]

I think the writings of all mass and serial killers go to the FBI, BAU division. It is they who generally speak on what "type" of killer one is. I'd expect they'd like to come to a general conclusion on things before it's released by the public. Imho

I agree. Especially since social media has such an influence.