AMBER ALERT TN - Summer Moon-Utah Wells, 5, Rogersville, 15 Jun 2021 #30

Discussion in 'Missing Persons Discussion' started by hollye, Jun 16, 2021.

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  1. December

    December Verified insider - Kathy Jones case

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    One thing I will add... Going through this search that i did for dogs on the scene...

    The search effort has been massive. They have used everything they can think of to aid the searches (dogs, helicopters, etc.)

    Numerous people tried to help search and, when they were unable to help actively search, they tried to support the searchers by bring food, drinks, various supplies until they were asked to stop. This was a well-supported effort by the community.

    More and more agencies joined the search. The last number i heard was 80. But, it was something like 18 within 24-30 hours. Six states participated in this search. It has been a huge undertaking.

    And, in a lot of articles i have linked, DW is saying confusing things. Both DW and CB are kind of complaining a lot. I am going to say this is perhaps a situation where maybe listening to them has given the wrong impression. I don't know what they are going through, i am sure there are things going on in the background that are causing some of this...

    So, i don't know who to listen to, really. LE isn't telling us much and the media hasn't said much more. They have covered the story, i just don't know if there is much information for them to report.

    I have tried to find out what social media rumors are so detrimental to the case. I don't really have SM, but i can't find all that much that people have cooked up in their own heads that i think would really interfere with the case. I don't think people should call these in as "tips" to the police because they're just various types of speculation. But, as long as people refrain from doing that...

    In fact, probably the most detrimental thing was DW telling people that LE had found the truck when they hadn't. I don't know if maybe he thought they did... Or what was going on there. Maybe it started as a rumor that he picked up on?
     
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  2. December

    December Verified insider - Kathy Jones case

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    I have always thought that they focused on "wandered off" so much at the very first because if they didn't find Summer, she would not last very long in the woods and might not find her way home.

    However, I just took for granted that they were grilling the heck out of the adults just in case.

    CB did complain that the TBI would look in the same places many times including places she didn't think SW would fit such as the crafts tote and the septic thing for the camper. (This was in CB's interview in the Rogersville paper.)

    To me, this does sound like CB really can't imagine why they were doing that, but they were doing it. So we can only hope they went over the Silverado (and other vehicles) with great care. She says the vehicles were looked at... But, obviously, all she knows is SW was not in any of these when they looked. Eta... Looked at is not her exact wording. I am not implying anything by using this phrase, to be clear.

    I hope they didn't miss anything...

    Of course, CB might think everyone who isn't HCSO is TBI. The FBI CARD team showed up pretty soon. So, hoping....
     
  3. Knox

    Knox Well-Known Member

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    Seems like the attention for Summer is slowing down. I hate how this happens, will she ever be found?

    Did they get the boys back yet?
     
  4. December

    December Verified insider - Kathy Jones case

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    I don't think so... (Eta: this is about the boys not being returned; i am still holding out hope for Summer)

    I am pretty sure that there has to be another hearing in court in order to return custody. MSM probably would have mentioned if DW and CB went to court.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2021
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  5. hey-Debbie

    hey-Debbie Well-Known Member

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    I'm still hoping this baby girl will be found soon.
     
  6. Dre

    Dre Well-Known Member

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    Ugh this is really reminding me so much of the Orson and Orrin West case… I so hope this doesn’t go cold :( I think about summer every day and hope to see some developments sooner than later..
     
  7. Allabouttrial

    Allabouttrial Well-Known Member

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    @Trackergd @Oriah

    This might help. This is what Dave (Equusearch) said in his first interview with Duty Ron.

    Bill
    The folks are gonna ask. There's different types of dogs, bloodhounds there's cadaver dogs. Were all manner of dogs on the scene?

    Dave
    Yeah, they were actually using live track and they were also using cadaver. From what I understand they could not get a very good scent article from the house for Summer because I think that everything was kind of shared. So I'm not sure how well that played out but they did use cadaver and they also used live track. And not one of them took us in any one direction.

    Ron
    So was it confirmed Dave that they did bring in multiple dogs into the home and outside of the home? Because there's been reports that some dogs got the scent to the end of the road of the house, and that it stopped there. Is there any truth to that statement Dave?

    Dave
    From what I understand, yes. You know as far as the interior of the house I have no knowledge of that working but I did hear on several occasions that the live track took them to the end of the driveway and that's where they lost it, and usually that means they get into a car.
     
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  8. December

    December Verified insider - Kathy Jones case

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    @Allabouttrial , thank you for pulling out that part of the interview.

    This brings me back to what got me started with dogs: scent item.

    How in the world could one not have been easy to produce? Summer supposedly sat on that stupid pillow for hours. She wore two or three (depending on if you listen to H or CB) different outfits that day including a pair of shoes, surely.

    Yes, CB did her epic laundry with 80 pairs of jeans. It takes more than 30 minutes to wash all the clothes in the house where 6-7 people (depending on whether this laundry included CH's clothes) live.

    I know that is Mrs. CM's estimate and that is impossibly short. For one thing, all this stuff cannot fit in one load unless you have a washer and dryer out of a hotel. And they don't. There are pictures.

    Back to scent item:

    Wouldn't this pillow have been a good scent item? Is it plausible that there was nothing? How could her clothes be shared? She had dolls and it sounds like she was the only one who played with those. Would the dolls be a suitable item?

    I am sure dog handlers have worked with all sorts of things, so they would have been suggesting things, surely. How much does a person have to use an item before it is going to be pretty much theirs (as far as the dog can tell)?

    If i sit on a pillow all day, even if other people may have used the pillow before me, is that pillow mine as far as the dog's nose can tell because i used it last and literally sat on it for hours the same day the dog sniffs it?

    ETA: i guess the pillow could have been washed, too.

    It just seems that probably no good scent item was ever found.

    Because it seems like if there was a good scent item, the dogs would have all tracked her to the end of the driveway.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2021
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  9. Oriah

    Oriah Verified SAR (K9, Police, Maritime)

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    Ugh. That interview (with Dave) concerns me. It seems like it's a lot of second and third hand unauthorized info. Honestly, from my perspective it also doesn't make a lot of sense. All of this property, hundreds of people, multiple dogs (not to mention any personal or stray dogs on site) a contaminated scene, no 'good' scent articles, no pickup of any scent trails except one that goes down the driveway and then...suddenly stops indicating a likely vehicle....I don't know. Sounds like a lot of he said/she said/I heard/they said/ and let's play telephone another round. :(
    This is absolutely NO slur against either LE or SAR- I am certain that they worked/are working tremendously hard to locate Summer, utilizing SO many resources. It's just that sometimes that's the way searches can go- very chaotically, and often with a who's on first communication style. I guess it just concerns me that this might have happened early on in Summer's case.
    And the thing about the driveway trail that K9 SAR allegedly picked up on...if accurate, why was that disclosed to the public at all? This is an active investigation- that would be scent evidence. In active investigations where K9 SAR is utilized, you cannot divulge findings of potential evidence until you are cleared to do so. If LE was already thinking this was an abduction, and SAR scent evidence was supportive of that...then a crime has likely been committed. A K9 handler might be called on to testify in court re: their K9, their training, scent work, logs, etc. It can be used in court just like any other potential evidence discovered during a search.
    How did that particular scent trail- the ONLY one they are saying was identified as Summer's alone- make it to the media and the general public?
     
  10. December

    December Verified insider - Kathy Jones case

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    @Oriah, DW is quoted in those news articles talking about the dog tracking to the end of the driveway (in later interviews he calls this "the dog trail" which is confusing). He saw it.
     
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  11. Oriah

    Oriah Verified SAR (K9, Police, Maritime)

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    The 'dog trail' that he's referring to isn't the tiny path that he shows through brush etc down to the road? Not down the driveway proper?
    And are you saying DW claimed to have witnessed the scent K9 and handler tracking and/or trailing Summer's scent down the driveway- only to be lost at the bottom/road with his own eyes?
     
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  12. Megnut

    Megnut Well-Known Member

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    It sounds like the parents had trouble producing a scent item... perhaps they didn't want to produce one.

    I wonder where Summer's warm back to school outfit went, where her skirted swimsuit went.... we know why her sheets weren't likely provided. What about pajamas? Cringe.

    If Summer spent most of the day running errands, save a few minutes in the horse pond, and most of the rest of the day, did the scent dog get all serious between the house and camper? Doing some figure eights there or whatever the pattern would me?

    If the freshest path was the one to the road, and that was the only area of interest, I have some questions.

    Was her freshest scent trail more likely from a previous day?

    Had she chased her brother on their dirt bikes the day prior? Did they ever let her catch up, say maybe at the road? Ever give her a ride back, especially if there was extra traffic and maybe some tree trimmers?

    Since Candus left the house with Summer before 8 am, maybe the boy/s were telling the truth. The last time he/they saw Summer she WAS headed down the driveway. And about 7 pm. The day before. Didn't see her a breakfast, whatever and whenever that was, didn't see her at lunch, whenever that was, maybe that was in fact the last time and place.

    That would make sense. And fill in some holes.

    Just my thoughts, trying to make sense of confusion.
     
  13. December

    December Verified insider - Kathy Jones case

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    It is unclear (to me) exactly what he saw. But, he starts talking about it this event early on and the stuff in the media seems to originate with him. He doesn't really talk about anyone reporting this to him, so at least in part, i think he just saw something. I don't know that he could have seen everything unless he followed the handler and i do not think that would be permitted.

    However, everything he says is in Donspeak, which is confusing. So, i cannot pin down exactly how he came to know this. It just seemed to me when the media was talking about this, they were quoting DW not LE.

    I don't know that the information about the dog was really supposed to be public information. But, according to DW, he knew from the start SW had been abducted, so this is part of him talking about that.

    I don't know for sure if he was 100 percent the source o
    No. I am not saying he directly said he witnessed that entire event take place.

    I am saying the information about the dog seems to come from media interviews with DW. He did see some of the search, but i don't know in precise detail how much.

    I don't know if LE put out the information about the dog or if DW saw/heard/inferred (some combination of this) some things and this is the result.

    He employs Donspeak which is confusing to me. He might be relying correct information, but i don't really get Donspeak.

    There might be a LE source, idk. In all the stuff I saw, it came from a MSM interview with DW.

    As for the "dog trail", I am saying in earlier versions it was "the driveway", then it became "the dog trail". I think a lot of us thought that was two things, but maybe it is two names for the same thing. Again, these are interviews where DW is being quoted. So, i really don't know.

    I think it is interesting that when CM asked CB where the dog trail was, she said she didn't know.

    Eta sorry i messed up my reply.
     
  14. Gigiky

    Gigiky Well-Known Member

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    I have always took issue with the grandmother leaving. I understand about helping your family. But to leave her daughter at such a horrific time just doesn't hold water with me.
    And also who ever the family member is that was in need of help would have surely said to grandma, you have enough to deal with and find someone else to help them. IMO grandma could be the key to a lot of unanswered questions. It has also occurred to me that if the grandmother was in such a bad way to need medical attention herself how could she be in a position to care for someone else.
     
  15. Megnut

    Megnut Well-Known Member

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    Grandma may have left at the urging of LE, if she had somewhere safe to stay. They have LE connections in every state! Perhaps she's been a tremendous source of information, with history, CPS, etc.

    It would be good if someone is telling some truth.

    We could use more of that.

    JMO
     
  16. Gigiky

    Gigiky Well-Known Member

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    I was just watching the video that lookinInn2 posted, what happened at the swimming hole. You see H bending over looking at something before standing up and doing the hand gestures. I don't know if this is what H was referring to as a gang sign. But it appears to me (MO) that he is implying with those hand gestures that something is good to go, Then if you look very close you see that there is a milk jug. It looks to me like it is under a small amount of water. And then I think back to a post where someone ask why H went into the woods when they arrived at the park. This is just MO. But after watching that video and seeing that milk jug it immediately made me think, mobile meth lab.
     
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  17. flashy09

    flashy09 Well-Known Member

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    Police issue 'meth warning' for discarded bottles, risk of exposure

    "The bottles often are wrapped in duct tape or contain aluminum foil inside. Officers said meth users will mix chemicals inside the bottles or jugs, ending up with a small amount of the drug.

    Police Lt. Bob Yander Yacht called the problem a "newer concern," that could endanger adults, young children and pets."
     
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  18. Trackergd

    Trackergd Verified SAR Manager and Tracker - Retired

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    I'm just a little bit confused by the DW speak. Live Track (at least the one I know about) is a map tracking device that dog handlers and search groups with them that allows the SAR Manager to see on a computer map, where the team is and where they have searched. A pair of SW's shoes should have been a rich source of scent. If there was no scent article, what did the dog handler(s) use to imprint the scent on the dog(s)? If there was no scent article at all, the scent trail attributed to SW loses credibility, the dog could have been following any scent. If there was a scent article and a dog was imprinted with it and followed the scent trail to the road, DW discussing it with the media may have made it useless as evidence.
     
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  19. Trackergd

    Trackergd Verified SAR Manager and Tracker - Retired

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    H going into the woods could have been to answer the call of nature (pee). If the water was cold enough, could H have put a jug of milk there to keep it cold until they left for home?
     
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  20. hey-Debbie

    hey-Debbie Well-Known Member

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    Have we even thought about the fact that maybe Summer did get in a car but she could have gotten in a car with another family member. Like could have Candace and Summer walked down the driveway to go somewhere quick with someone or even Summer walk down the driveway to meet her Dad?
     
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