AMBER ALERT TN - Summer Moon-Utah Wells, 5, Rogersville, 15 Jun 2021 #31

Discussion in 'Missing Persons Discussion' started by hollye, Jun 16, 2021.

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  1. LietKynes

    LietKynes "Law is the ultimate science."- Liet Kynes

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    bbm
    Ita.
    Good points !

    I have some theories but I have to wait for LE to turn up the heat.
    That's the reason for the square one remark, imo.
    Back in the beginning I wondered if anything about anyone's lifestyle choices had changed ?
    There's a reason for wondering.

    Haleigh Cumming's case stood out as the persons of interest suddenly made changes in their lives, that seemed to indicate they knew Haleigh wasn't coming back.
    Although there's no poi in Summer's case; your comment makes it sound as if some theories may not be far fetched at all ?
    MOO.
     


  2. sallye818

    sallye818 Well-Known Member

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    PLEASE! From your lips to God's ears (and the ears of search and recovery teams!).
     
  3. kittythehare

    kittythehare Well-Known Member

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    I suppose it's no longer realistic to hold any hope of her still being alive.
    Even DW said as much in that interview.. he's losing hope.
    But, realistically it's an impossible call to make.
    We don't know what happened.
    If she was kidnapped it's possible she is alive, depending upon her kidnappers and their motivation.
    A big International trafficking ring could be keeping her alive for their own purposes.
    But is it fair to say a big trafficking organisation would have needed contacts with local knowledge to actually watch and seize the child?

    There is indeed plenty of places to hide undiscovered but that only makes sense if she was specifically targeted. By someone who knew she was en route home at a specific time.
    When they left that morning there was no way to hazard a guess at how long they were likely to be gone.
    The grandmother's medical issues could have taken a day or an hour to solve.

    The three boys were home all day.
    They weren't targeted or taken.
    Just Summer.
     
  4. Willow Knight

    Willow Knight Well-Known Member

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    Sheriff Lawson confirms SW's scent went down this dog trail and ended at the road. So, to me, that would mean she was on that trail. I wonder how long SW's scent would last on that trail?

    @Trackergd do you have an opinion as to how many days SW's scent would last? Also, would it be correct to say at some time, SW did go down that trail?

    This is what I found when I googled: ******* Some experts believe that scents can last up to 14 days, whereby they can be picked up by a trailing dog. Other experts believe most smells dissipate within 5 days. At the extreme, there are experts that say odors remain detectable for years.********
     
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  5. Allabouttrial

    Allabouttrial Well-Known Member

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    Not trying to argue semantics here but....In the video the reporter says to Sherrif Lawson:

    "I asked Sheriff Lawson about Well's claims. Did dogs follow Summer's scent down the trail to the main road? The Sheriff says, yes."

    Lawson
    "The dogs had a pretty good trail. They tracked for a little while but then it disappeared but they lost scent when they come to the road and sometimes canines they will lose the scent when it changes different type of...it maybe went from gravel to the pavement."

    I think we can infer that Lawson was talking about the dogs trailing and not that it was down the dog trail.

    Two reasons:
    • He mentioned the gravel leading onto the pavement, the dog trail doesn't have gravel.
    • If you look at the SS below that were shown when Lawson was talking about the scent, you can see the dogs on the driveway, not on the dog trail.
    upload_2021-10-9_9-49-27.png
    upload_2021-10-9_9-50-27.png upload_2021-10-9_9-51-20.png

    Exclusive Update: Summer Wells
    This link is the same video as the youtube one.
     
  6. mooseandcoffee

    mooseandcoffee Well-Known Member

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    Well, if you consider YT to be social media, then we have heard a lot of them on here.

    It sounds like there are a lot of people who hear something on FB and think it's new news that needs reporting to LE.
     
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  7. mooseandcoffee

    mooseandcoffee Well-Known Member

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    It is interesting that you see only 1 answer to that question.
     
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  8. Oriah

    Oriah Verified SAR (K9, Police, Maritime)

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    I think it is interesting that (per the Rogersville interview with CW) CW expressed some pretty strong opinions about how the SAR dogs were handled and analyzed, especially considering their 8 personal dogs on the property- but Lawson doesn't have anything to say about that, or the conditions under which the K9(s) were working. He doesn't imply that there could be any error or flaw in their scent tracking, trailing, or cadaver discoveries/non-discoveries.
    This concerns me, because there is ALWAYS room for error when it comes to scent detection. If accurate, losing Summer's scent at the end of the driveway could be a huge clue into her disappearance. If inaccurate, it could be a huge red herring. Ditto for all permutations in-between.
    Imho, that room for error is really something that should be addressed by LE when commenting on any hits, finds, or scent trails regarding K9's used in SAR work. Just for the sake of clarifying solid leads.
     
  9. LietKynes

    LietKynes "Law is the ultimate science."- Liet Kynes

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    Thanks for the link and also for clarifying !
    It would appear that Summer's scent may not have been on the dog trail ?
    And if someone said she walked down that rail it could be a red herring, whether deliberate or not ?
    It's important to follow what LE have said over other people .
    Imo.
     
  10. sallye818

    sallye818 Well-Known Member

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    RSBM
    But DW didn't seem to have any hope from the beginning. Although he's been all over the place with what he's thinking, he definitely said at the beginning he'd see her at the resurrection, and that tells me he thought she was gone (deceased) early on.
     
  11. kittythehare

    kittythehare Well-Known Member

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    At that stage he had taken it to the worst possible conclusion in his mind. It was not a definitive statement IMO. He has had intermittent hope subsequently and expressed it in various interviews. .
    There is not an atom of evidence connecting him to his child's disappearance in the public domain.
     
  12. LietKynes

    LietKynes "Law is the ultimate science."- Liet Kynes

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    Agreed, and DW also seemed to think she was kidnapped.
    So it was strange ... b/c IF that was the scenario (doubtful, as LE never said for the neighbors to be on the lookout for random kidnappers) --- of course she could be alive !
    Look at how long Jaycee Dugard was held .
    Imo.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2021
  13. tara83

    tara83 Well-Known Member

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    LE hasn't ruled anyone out so neither am I.
     
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  14. sk716

    sk716 Armchair Anthropologist

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    This discussion has always moved so fast and been pretty aggressive at times so I've steered clear for the most part. Something has been nagging at me, but with the constant dog pile on the Wells' it's impossible to point out any other possibility.

    Summer and H were in the car, in the parking lot, at the grocery store. Stranger abductions are rare, I know that, you know it, we all know it, now. But I've always wondered if a preferential predator spotted her in the car in the grocery store parking lot with H and followed them home.
     
  15. renarde

    renarde Well-Known Member

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    So where would an abductor park a vehicle? On Ben Hill Road? Bottom of the driveway? Ready to make a quick u-turn because it's a dead end?

    Or on Beech Creek Road? Maybe across the road, at the cemetery? Or a little closer to the house, maybe on the driveway at the "shack?"
     
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  16. sk716

    sk716 Armchair Anthropologist

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    It looks to me like some one could basically circle the property: Beech Creek, Ben Hill, Simpson Rd without parking until an opportune moment. I can't see for certain, but it looks like Simpson Rd comes out as a driveway here. Wouldn't be a problem for a Tacoma.

    Historically, a preferential offender would stalk the target until the target could be taken safely.

    They got home around 3. Summer is discovered missing around 5:30. That's two and a half hours for surveillance.

    If we can agree the the at home timeline is pretty fuzzy and Summer was probably doing her own thing for longer than two minutes, probably closer to thirty. Suppose she followed a dog out of the basement door (Who knows why five year olds wander, we just know that they do.), down the dog trail to a pleasantly surprised preferential offender staking out the property.

    I don't know where the report of the red truck came from, but I would think any vehicle on Simpson Rd that didn't live on that road might stand out.

    I get that it sounds like a boogeyman story, it just feels right to me.
     
  17. Dre

    Dre Well-Known Member

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    Yes, at this point her being abducted would be the ONLY way she’s still alive. The fact they seemed annoyed to have everyone in the woods, all hands on deck searching is astounding, should absolutely be the first and most realistic theory that a parent would develop. But then someone who disappears a child would push an abduction theory as they hope the child won’t be found. Moo
     
  18. 2.curious

    2.curious Well-Known Member

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    The story of little Christopher being found today reminds me how I thought it would turn out for Summer in the beginning.
    The first couple of days I thought she had wondered off into the woods and would be found.
    I'm so thankful Christopher was found.
    (569) FOUND! Grimes Co. missing toddler found alive and well after nearly 4 days - YouTube

    Tim Miller of Texas Equusearch is on this video too, thank you Tim!

    KAGS Texas

    I don't want to give up hope for Summer. It's been almost 4 months now.
    Something has to break in this case.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2021
  19. December

    December Verified insider - Kathy Jones case

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    Imo, the kind of unusual and extreme things that have happened to these people in their lives make their behavior difficult to compare to perhaps more average cases. Just the unsolved disappearance of RB alone is pretty unusual.

    RB is a grown woman and, at one point, did have a car. This was in 2009, so she probably had a phone. I believe there is a photo of her holding one. SW is only five years old. She had nothing, not even a pair of shoes. So, i can understand why SW's family would be pessimistic, even when they don't want to be.

    Also, CB was not at home with the boys. We don't know if they stayed inside every second of that day or not. No one except the boys knows. (Yes, i know children can play games all day, but since we weren't there, we have to admit they also can go outside for a bit.)

    We don't know if someone was just randomly scoping out children that day. We don't know if they considered another child.

    All we know is SW was the one taken. Due to her short hair, someone might have thought she was a boy. I know she was wearing pink, but it's current year, boys wear pink. I mean, I hope if someone took her, they really wanted SW specifically because that is her best chance to still be alive.
     
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  20. December

    December Verified insider - Kathy Jones case

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    I think if LE has any useful information from the dogs, we don't know it. The dog that tracked to the road lost SW's trail. I guess we just have to move on from the dogs, unfortunately. But jmo...
     
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