Discussion in 'JonBenet Ramsey' started by BeeBee, May 4, 2005.
At 9PM. JonBenet, Anatomy of a Murder.
Thanks!!!! I haven't seen it yet!
Sorry. It's Anatomy of an Investigation.
Thanks for the heads up! I haven't seen this one yet.
PS...the pic of Samantha is beautiful. I just can't stand seeing this gorgeous children taken from us.
I know it, such a tragedy about Samantha, my heart breaks for her and her family.
Is this new???
I doubt that this is new. I've got the exact title recorded from years ago (I'm guessing maybe it came out in 2000 or 2001, it's right behind my recording of the Ramseys on LKL with Steve Thomas and that was in 2000). Bill Kurtis narrated it. They replay it from time to time.
It was slightly updated, but with nothing we don't know about. The DNA under the fingernails and in the panties matched, but Henry Lee is still downplaying the DNA. Lee used the example of a hypothetical drop of blood on the pavement could have landed on the same spot where a different person had spit. I'm beginning to wonder about Henry Lee.
One big mistake was they said there was a three year span after the 1997 interviews before the Ramseys were interviewed again. They forgot about the 1998 interviews.
If you missed the show, you didn't miss much.
If you wish to see the program, It's available at the A&E store
So am I. After the Ketchup fiasco, I'm starting to wonder if Lee isn't losing his mind. I'm also utterly baffled by why so many people who, in any other case, would regard that DNA is being crucial (and it is) utterly dismiss it in this case. It's like if it isn't Ramsey DNA, it's immaterial. Odd way to run a case.
Oliva (I'm using names here because the names have been used on TV shows), Helgoth, XXXX (boarder) would seem to be serious suspects. I think Oliva most likely is out on DNA. He has a record, and he would not have been able to refuse giving a sample. Helgoth, well, they'll have to dig him up to make the match. But sans evidence he was anywhere near the Ramsey house on Dec 25/26, he's not much of a suspect no matter what kind of shoes he had or stungun.
XXXX (yes, I know I'm being obsessed) gave samples, but there is no report I've ever been able to find on what the results of his tests were, or if the tests were even run.
The DNA found on the victim will conclusively ID the killer. One of these days, maybe someone will be able to look at BPD files and see just who was tested and who wasn't.
Helgoth was cleared on DNA evidence. This was reported in the CourtTV special amongst other places, which ironically enough tried to implicate Helgoth in the JBR case.
The depth of journalism on this case has plummetted to previously unexplored depths IMO.
I think folks in the world of journalism lost interest in the case some time ago and stopped following developments. Then Michael Tracey produced a piece of dire fiction and a few journalists who hadn't been "following the game" took what he said at face value.
They certainly cannot call themselves investigative journalists - because they clearly didn't investigate the facts.
So there was foreign DNA found on the victim was there? What was its source? blood? semen? skin? hair? do you know? And what results, if any have been released?
BlueCrab Please do you have any more information on the DNA results? Or where I can look them up? Like was the DNA under her fingernails from skin and on the panties from what? And which suspects have had their DNA analysed?
Some believe the DNA is from saliva.
There are several interpretations of the DNA evidence. Here's my take:
o There is foreign DNA under the fingernails that matches the foreign DNA in JonBenet's panties.
o The foreign DNA in the crotch area of the panties was mixed with blood from JonBenet. There were two spots. One spot was tested early in the case, and the other spot was tested much later. Both spots consisted of mixed DNA, the primary DNA being JonBenet's; the secondary DNA being from a male caucasian.
o All male Ramseys were eliminated as contributors of the foreign DNA.
o the source of the foreign male DNA was saliva.
o The second spot on the panties allowed 10 markers of foreign DNA to be identified -- thus allowing the sample to be entered into the federal government's CODIS, which prefers 13 markers to be identified but which will accept 10 markers as a minimum.
o The contributor of the foreign male DNA in JonBenet's panties is likely the killer (although my personal theory involves two perpetrators).
The above are my opinions as I understand the DNA evidence in this case.
Thank you very much Bluecrab for that DNA information.
And yes I would agree with your conclusions.
Foreign male DNA on the panties.
And that is all we are allowed to know.
I would love to know which males in Boulder have had their DNA tested and compared with that on the panties.
Probably only the Ramseys I suppose. And a few other nobody child sex offenders probably.
Noone within the circle of the Ramsey friends and neighbours.
I saw this program about a week ago for the FIRST time. The NEW NEW tidbit of information brought out WHICH WAS NEW TO ME WAS THAT, there was saliva found on JonBenets body. OTHER NEW TO ME STUFF was that there was SALIVA found on the body of the 12 yr old girl, who had a sexual attack in her home. She was a student at the same dance studio as JonBenet.
NOW then what did not stick with my mind from watching the program was whether those two sources of saliva, were ever CROSSMATCHED TO SEE IF THEY WERE FROM THE SAME PERP. I seem to recall that that part of the show was a 'DAISY DANCE'.
The program seemed to INFER that Helgoths death was suspicious, he was right handed, the gun was found by his right side, the bullet hole entered from his left side lower belly and traveled upward to the right at a nearly impossible angle IF IF he was using his right hand.
The program seemed to infer to me that 'someone who may have been involved in the death of JonBenet, WITH him, had PERHAPS killed him.
Another impossible thought (imop) at the end of the program said 'that it would take 60 investigators to put all of the pieces together.
The inference was that there had never been a dna test of the saliva found on JonBenet's body, but of course WE here in MUSHROOM country do NOT know if that is a fact or just a fairy tale. :boohoo:
My thoughts of course are open to discussion and or correction.
The show was full of inaccuracies.(nice way to say lies)
The original show was broadcast in the UK, the suspect was completely edited out of this program after some internet sleuths exposed them and found in 5 minutes with a google search the man they claimed was "on the run".Read about it at Forums For Justice.
Helgoth died of a gunshot to the chest, not stomach. What was portrayed on the show was deceptive.
Suicide victims will often use their thumb to pull the trigger and this is common trajectory for self inflicted gun shots in the chest. Try it with a toy gun. Use your thumb, the gun will naturally slide in and go left to right. It's not uncommon. Believe me, the trajectory and location of the wound on Helgoth's body IS consistant with a suicide. I think Tracey was hoping people would mix this up with self inflicted gun shots to the head ending up on the opposite side! Funny how they didn't tell you about fingerprints and gunshot residue and hammer spurs which are the other items of evidence that investigators use when determining a death is a suicide or homicide.
They slipped though when they mentioned the saliva/DNA in the other Dance West case. Now we are expected to believe there are two more unknown perps besides Helgoth. You see, Helgoth's DNA does not match either DNA, aside from the fact he was already dead when the Dance West attack occured, and the Dance West DNA does not match the JonBenet DNA.
--------------->>>Alrighty then, got me convinced. SOOO the show I actually, and finally saw was a remodeled version, am I correct?
Yep that ninja black clothing dealy, at the 12 yr olds home, was described by the person who KNEW how coo coo Helgoth appeared to be. Helgoth musta given his black duds to someone else who is currently unknown, laffin here.
That little detail about Helgoth being dead at the time of the 12 yr old attack, is a good one, slappin my knee here.
I remember reading that Helgoth killed himself on Valentines day, am I right, and the OLDE version tried to tie in the heart ?, in JonBenets hand, am I right?
Thanks, I was not aware that they had revamped the program, since I had never seen the original one.
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