Too many clues

[UKGuy]

I believe it was JB's nightie. The My Size dolls can wear real kids' clothing, but a child the size of JB at age 6, would probably not be able to wear the doll's clothing. I have seen those doll in person, and though they are the height of a toddler (about 3 feet) their proportions are more like a teen's, with small waist, small breasts and long, slimmer legs. More like the figure of a girl just about a "tween" age- 10-14. The doll might wear a child's size 3 or 4T, but might not fit the doll the same way it fits a child; but JB probably wore a 6 or 6X. at that age, a 7 of she were tall. Those sizes would swim on that doll.
Mattel made very few outfits for the My Size doll, compared to the hundreds made for the standard 11" Barbies.

DeeDee249,
thanks for your thoughts. This is what I had assumed also. Although if it had been her barbie-dolls nightgown then a claim for staging might appear less solid.

One question is why are her size-6 underwear missing but the bloodstained nightgown left in place?

Why even bother with the size-12's then leave a barbie-doll and nightgown at the crime-scene.

You have to wonder if John attempted some kind of crime scene staging when he went missing that morning?

The wine-cellar is one messed up crime-scene, particularly if you assume the stager had all night to sort stuff out?

.

 

[DeeDee249]

DeeDee249,
thanks for your thoughts. This is what I had assumed also. Although if it had been her barbie-dolls nightgown then a claim for staging might appear less solid.

One question is why are her size-6 underwear missing but the bloodstained nightgown left in place?

Why even bother with the size-12's then leave a barbie-doll and nightgown at the crime-scene.

You have to wonder if John attempted some kind of crime scene staging when he went missing that morning?

The wine-cellar is one messed up crime-scene, particularly if you assume the stager had all night to sort stuff out?

.

We know why the panties are missing- they were replaced with the larger size. We don't know where they are, though. There are a few theories about the panties. Here's mine: IF Patsy also bought the same panty gift set for JB was she bought for her niece (and I think she did), JB may have been wearing Bloomies size 6 panties that also said "Wednesday". Christmas was a Wednesday that year, and although JB couldn't read, Patsy would probably have been a stickler for wearing the appropriate "day". With JB's known bathroom habits (asking anyone to wipe her), there was a possibility that someone at the White's that day may have seen JB's panties and would have noticed they said "Wednesday".
So if those panties had to be replaced, it would be important to replace them with identical (except for the size) panties in case anyone was questioned about it. Obviously, this theory puts the parents as the stagers and redressers, as no intruder would have cared about what panties she wore nor replaced them at all.
I truly believe the Rs never thought anyone would notice the size or care about it if they did. JB wore the too-big panties under longjohns, and probably only after death. It's not like she was walking around with them obviously falling down.
Just like the pineapple- the Rs never expected THAT to turn up in the autopsy either, never gave it a thought. And if they did, figured it would not be identifiable at that point.
As far as the nightie- JR DID make this comment when shown a photo of it in the WC: "That wasn't supposed to be there". To me, this indicated a "slip"- where what he MEANT was that the white blanket WAS supposed to be there (covering up his dead daughter) but the pink nightie was not. We don't know how much blood there was on the nightie. Were there just a few tiny drops? (this is what I believe) or was it a seepage-type stain, perhaps from whatever made her bleed vaginally? No blood is visible in either photo, the one in the WC or the one where the we see the nightie in an evidence photo, where we see the front of it with the Barbie design.

 

[DeeDee249]

So what was found in the wine cellar was not in fact JonBenet's nightgown but her Barbie doll's nightgown?

No. I believe it was JB's nightie. I know about these dolls. They are about 3 feet tall, but much slimmer in built (more teen-like) than a child of 6. Possibly JB could have worn that doll's nightie the year she got the doll (age 4) but at age 6, probably not. The doll's shoulders, neck and waist are NOT the size of a real child at that age.
And remember that a standard Barbie is only about 11 inches tall and the nightie would fit in the palm of your hand, not on a real child of ANY age.

The actual doll may be seen on eBay. You do not need to be a member to see the dolls. Just type in "my size barbie doll" in the search box. Or "google it". It is easy to see the difference between the doll and a real child of the same height. The My Size doll has a body like a teenage girl, but a girl around 3 feet tall. No way is it like a child of 3 feet tall.

 

[txsvicki]

Patsy didn't clean, and wasn't all that concerned with too small of panties being in the drawer, and it sounds like she didn't go into JonBenet's room to inspect things that much, but instead concerned herself mostly with what outfits to wear and where they were going and to what activity. What if JonBenet really did dress herself that day, put on the too big panties under her tights for the party, and the murderer really did either put them back on her or pull them up? What if the Barbie nightgown really was up under or inside the blanket or washed with it since things were scattered around JonBenet's room. Patsy even allowed JonBenet to play with her crowns and the biggest recent one was sitting on the bathroom counter. That is not a picky obsessive Mom. The only thing I can think of with the panties relating to any Ramsey guilt would be wanting JonBenet to be found in clean new panties. Sort of like old fashioned Moms used to tell kids to put on fresh underwear in case they're in an accident. That doesn't answer the Wednesday panties though since JonBenet couldn't read yet. Unless she could make out the W and sound it out or could have even asked Burke. The police weren't doing their job very well and really may have missed locating the other day of the week new size 12 panties. They could have been anywhere if JonBenet had put them in a different place.

 

[SunnieRN]

The blood could easily be on the back of the nightgown, which could happen during a sexual assault. I agree with the body 'style' of the Barbie. My niece was very thin, but could only fit into Barbies dress until she was 4 1/2.

 

[UKGuy]

Patsy didn't clean, and wasn't all that concerned with too small of panties being in the drawer, and it sounds like she didn't go into JonBenet's room to inspect things that much, but instead concerned herself mostly with what outfits to wear and where they were going and to what activity. What if JonBenet really did dress herself that day, put on the too big panties under her tights for the party, and the murderer really did either put them back on her or pull them up? What if the Barbie nightgown really was up under or inside the blanket or washed with it since things were scattered around JonBenet's room. Patsy even allowed JonBenet to play with her crowns and the biggest recent one was sitting on the bathroom counter. That is not a picky obsessive Mom. The only thing I can think of with the panties relating to any Ramsey guilt would be wanting JonBenet to be found in clean new panties. Sort of like old fashioned Moms used to tell kids to put on fresh underwear in case they're in an accident. That doesn't answer the Wednesday panties though since JonBenet couldn't read yet. Unless she could make out the W and sound it out or could have even asked Burke. The police weren't doing their job very well and really may have missed locating the other day of the week new size 12 panties. They could have been anywhere if JonBenet had put them in a different place.

txsvicki,

Patsy didn't clean, and wasn't all that concerned with too small of panties being in the drawer, and it sounds like she didn't go into JonBenet's room to inspect things that much, but instead concerned herself mostly with what outfits to wear and where they were going and to what activity.

Well guess what. Patsy was concerned enough about JonBenet to directly place a pack of size-12, day of the week, Bloomingdale underwear into her drawer in the bathroom. This is Patsy's account.

But no size-12, day of the week, Bloomingdale underwear was ever found in JonBenet's underwear drawer.

.

 

[Toltec]

Patsy didn't clean, and wasn't all that concerned with too small of panties being in the drawer, and it sounds like she didn't go into JonBenet's room to inspect things that much, but instead concerned herself mostly with what outfits to wear and where they were going and to what activity. What if JonBenet really did dress herself that day, put on the too big panties under her tights for the party, and the murderer really did either put them back on her or pull them up? What if the Barbie nightgown really was up under or inside the blanket or washed with it since things were scattered around JonBenet's room. Patsy even allowed JonBenet to play with her crowns and the biggest recent one was sitting on the bathroom counter. That is not a picky obsessive Mom. The only thing I can think of with the panties relating to any Ramsey guilt would be wanting JonBenet to be found in clean new panties. Sort of like old fashioned Moms used to tell kids to put on fresh underwear in case they're in an accident. That doesn't answer the Wednesday panties though since JonBenet couldn't read yet. Unless she could make out the W and sound it out or could have even asked Burke. The police weren't doing their job very well and really may have missed locating the other day of the week new size 12 panties. They could have been anywhere if JonBenet had put them in a different place.

Yes...Patsy said she went into JonBenet's bathroom and pulled out a pair of long underwear. She did not notice the soiled pants on the floor and the poop in the toilet???

 

[Red Viewfinder]

This case makes my head spin!
I think there is a good possibility that Patsy accidentally killed her daughter in an exhausted fit of post-Christmas, leaving on a trip, you wet your bed again FIT OF RAGE.
However, I cannot reconcile how John could have helped her cover it up. He had already lost a child! Unless, he completely shut down mentally from the trauma, how could he possibly have been a part of the death/cover up of another?

I love my spouse dearly, but there is NOTHING in me that would protect him, or go to lengths to stage a sick crime scene for his benefit.

Also, wouldn't he have been terrified to have had her around Burke for all the years after?

What a mystery. Would I ever love to know what really happened that fateful night.

 

[BBB167893]

This case makes my head spin!
I think there is a good possibility that Patsy accidentally killed her daughter in an exhausted fit of post-Christmas, leaving on a trip, you wet your bed again FIT OF RAGE.
However, I cannot reconcile how John could have helped her cover it up. He had already lost a child! Unless, he completely shut down mentally from the trauma, how could he possibly have been a part of the death/cover up of another?

That's assuming he had nothing at stake? Is that what you mean?

I love my spouse dearly, but there is NOTHING in me that would protect him, or go to lengths to stage a sick crime scene for his benefit.

People always say that, Red Viewfinder, but it's a lot like skydiving: you can practice on the ground all you like, but it's not until you jump that you know.

And if that seems like too flippant a response, let me address both points at once. Let's say that JR had nothing at stake except his ego and his reputation. I'm reminded of what Jack Woltz said in The Godfather: "A man in my position cannot afford to look ridiculous."