Transgenders express sex change regret...

Discussion in 'Up to the Minute' started by TrackerSam, Nov 11, 2014.

  1. TrackerSam

    TrackerSam New Member

    Messages:
    4,278
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Everyone has regrets. Some of us have big regrets. Most everyone has some place to go to get help dealing with them.

    Except for, say, a guy who had sex-change surgery and now would like to have his penis back. (The one God gave him.)

    If there was a drug that I could have taken that would have reduced the pressure, I would have been better off staying the way I was—a totally intact person. I know deep down that I’m a second-class woman. I get a lot of inquiries from would-be transsexuals, but I don’t want anyone to hold me out as an example to follow. Today there are better choices, including medication, for dealing with the compulsion to cross dress and the depression that comes from gender confusion. As far as being fulfilled as a woman, I’m not as fulfilled as I dreamed of being. I get a lot of letters from people who are considering having this operation…and I discourage them all.’ —Rene Richards, “The Liaison Legacy,” Tennis Magazine, March 1999.

    http://thefederalist.com/2014/11/11...ail&utm_term=0_cfcb868ceb-23d0544c79-83773797

    An interesting read.
     
  2. Loading...


  3. michmi

    michmi New Member

    Messages:
    1,674
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    That was interesting. I had no idea.
     
  4. Ballerina

    Ballerina New Member

    Messages:
    77
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Hmmmm. I'm curious if the high rate of suicide has to do more so with the hatred and violence that is often projected upon LGBT people.

    I also wondered, does the regret stem from the surgery itself, or from other aspects of life? Could the response from fellow society members create negative environments that would overall lead to regret?

    Regardless, certainly an interesting read.
     
  5. Donjeta

    Donjeta Adji Desir, missing from Florida

    Messages:
    19,248
    Likes Received:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    38
    There is no surgery in the whole of human existence that guarantees that you will never be unhappy and depressed about anything ever again, and imo no responsible professionals hype transgender surgery that way.

    Gender reassignment surgery is a big operation and like any surgery it's possible to have less than satisfactory results medically, functionally, and psychologically. There could be pain, there could be functional problems, there could be new stressors from negative family and community responses, career setbacks and other social disadvantages and psychologically the reality of the sex change may fall short of the expectations as life will continue to be imperfect and disappoint in countless ways and in case a transgender person had psychiatric problems before the surgery it's quite possible they don't all magically vanish with the surgery.

    This is not necessarily just a transgender surgery issue per se imo... there are tons of women who were born that way and aren't as fulfilled as women as they have dreamed of being.

    That's why people considering a sex change need lots of counseling and information about the process and the risks involved, and it should often continue after the operation (if decided to have the operation).
     
  6. Nova

    Nova Active Member

    Messages:
    19,111
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Let's be clear: TrackerSam linked to a blog with a clear agenda that "biology is truth" (see the final paragraph). It misuses stats (the "65% regret body modification surgery" figure tells us nothing as to how many of those were post-op transexuals) and relies heavily on Renee Richards, who--as the first famous post-op transexual--has had a unique experience.

    Are some post-ops dissatisfied? I'm sure. How many people think marriage will solve all their problems, only to find their lives are merely more complicated afterwards? The same may be said of parenthood, graduation, a dream job, a new house, a new city--really any major life change. We are all susceptible to the fiction that a single action will fix all our problems; most of us end up disappointed. There's no reason to expect transsexuals to be any different, especially when the surgery does NOT end the social discrimination against them.

    As for members of the transexual community, OF COURSE they are suspicious of claims that most post-ops are disappointed. Like the OP's link, many such discussions are deliberately stacked against acceptance of transexuals.
     
  7. Brightbird

    Brightbird New Member

    Messages:
    2,002
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    <modsnip>

    Interesting things are not immune to critique. I found the article interesting insofar it's against a pro transgender "narrative" when the author clearly has an agenda herself.
     
  8. Tulessa

    Tulessa Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    22,203
    Likes Received:
    313
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Great post Nova. :)
     
  9. EmmaliLucia

    EmmaliLucia New Member

    Messages:
    1,173
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I read a statistic somewhere where less than 10% of those who have had a sex change regretted it. I can't find the exact statistic at the moment. But I don't believe for a second that it's not true.

    The reason why the suicide rate in the trans* community is so high is the same reason why the murder rate in the trans* community is so high. People get confused and angry when they don't understand why someone is or is not a certain way. Trans* folk get raped, murdered, bullied, stalked, and harassed at a far higher rate than almost any category of cis folk (I do think that Native American cis women get raped at a higher rate than white trans women. But I'm not perfectly sure). I think that the best we can do is listen to this person's story, accept that this is their truth. But this isn't every person's truth, and we should not act like it is
     
  10. Donjeta

    Donjeta Adji Desir, missing from Florida

    Messages:
    19,248
    Likes Received:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    38
    http://link.springer.com/article/10.1023/A:1024086814364

    Abstract
    This study examined factors associated with satisfaction or regret following sex reassignment surgery (SRS) in 232 male-to-female transsexuals operated on between 1994 and 2000 by one surgeon using a consistent technique. Participants, all of whom were at least 1-year postoperative, completed a written questionnaire concerning their experiences and attitudes. Participants reported overwhelmingly that they were happy with their SRS results and that SRS had greatly improved the quality of their lives. None reported outright regret and only a few expressed even occasional regret. Dissatisfaction was most strongly associated with unsatisfactory physical and functional results of surgery. Most indicators of transsexual typology, such as age at surgery, previous marriage or parenthood, and sexual orientation, were not significantly associated with subjective outcomes. Compliance with minimum eligibility requirements for SRS specified by the Harry Benjamin International Gender Dysphoria Association was not associated with more favorable subjective outcomes. The physical results of SRS may be more important than preoperative factors such as transsexual typology or compliance with established treatment regimens in predicting postoperative satisfaction or regret.


    http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0016885

    Abstract

    Context

    The treatment for transsexualism is sex reassignment, including hormonal treatment and surgery aimed at making the person's body as congruent with the opposite sex as possible. There is a dearth of long term, follow-up studies after sex reassignment.

    Objective

    To estimate mortality, morbidity, and criminal rate after surgical sex reassignment of transsexual persons.

    Design

    A population-based matched cohort study.

    Setting

    Sweden, 1973-2003.

    Participants

    All 324 sex-reassigned persons (191 male-to-females, 133 female-to-males) in Sweden, 1973&#8211;2003. Random population controls (10:1) were matched by birth year and birth sex or reassigned (final) sex, respectively.

    Main Outcome Measures

    Hazard ratios (HR) with 95% confidence intervals (CI) for mortality and psychiatric morbidity were obtained with Cox regression models, which were adjusted for immigrant status and psychiatric morbidity prior to sex reassignment (adjusted HR [aHR]).

    Results

    The overall mortality for sex-reassigned persons was higher during follow-up (aHR 2.8; 95% CI 1.8&#8211;4.3) than for controls of the same birth sex, particularly death from suicide (aHR 19.1; 95% CI 5.8&#8211;62.9). Sex-reassigned persons also had an increased risk for suicide attempts (aHR 4.9; 95% CI 2.9&#8211;8.5) and psychiatric inpatient care (aHR 2.8; 95% CI 2.0&#8211;3.9). Comparisons with controls matched on reassigned sex yielded similar results. Female-to-males, but not male-to-females, had a higher risk for criminal convictions than their respective birth sex controls.

    Conclusions

    Persons with transsexualism, after sex reassignment, have considerably higher risks for mortality, suicidal behaviour, and psychiatric morbidity than the general population. Our findings suggest that sex reassignment, although alleviating gender dysphoria, may not suffice as treatment for transsexualism, and should inspire improved psychiatric and somatic care after sex reassignment for this patient group.
     
  11. gxm

    gxm New Member

    Messages:
    3,392
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    BBM

    My truth is that the term "cis women" is hate speech. It is hate speech created to marginalize and "other" born women. Born women face enough obstacles, discrimination, and abuse from patriarchal culture. The need for the so-called "pro-trans" community to pile on betrays their misogyny.
     
  12. Nova

    Nova Active Member

    Messages:
    19,111
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Why is the term "cis" hate speech? To me it's merely an attempt to avoid the doubly, no triply, loaded term "normal".

    gxm, you may have experiences I do not, but I've never heard the term used in a derogatory manner. For that matter, I've never heard a post-op friend say he or she regretted the surgery. I don't pretend to be an expert, but I do have post-op friends and relatives; I've never heard any of them assert superiority over anybody else.

    ****

    On a different note, isn't there quite a bit of maintenance required after sex-reassignment surgery? I know that once upon a time each M2F had to dilate her new vagina daily to keep it from growing closed; is this still true? I think most surgeons and F2Ms admit that an artificial penis is a poor replica of the real article, especially when it comes to functionality.

    Perhaps this is another reason why some people regret the surgery--not because they regret presenting as the opposite gender.
     
  13. AlwaysShocked

    AlwaysShocked Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,492
    Likes Received:
    266
    Trophy Points:
    83
    First of all, I don't know what the term "cis" means. Anyone?

    Secondly, it was my understanding that only a small percentage of transsexuals undergo the genital surgery. Is that no longer true?
     
  14. LaborDayRN

    LaborDayRN Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,643
    Likes Received:
    660
    Trophy Points:
    113
    cis and trans are Latin in origin.


    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/cis-

    cis-
    Word Origin
    1. a prefix occurring in loanwords from Latin meaning &#8220;on the near side of&#8221; ( cisalpine); on this model, used in the formation of compound words ( cisatlantic).
    2. Chemistry. a specialization of this denoting a geometric isomer having a pair of identical atoms or groups attached on the same side of two atoms linked by a double bond.
    Compare trans- (def 2).

    cis-
    prefix
    1. on this or the near side of: cisalpine

    2. indicating that two groups of atoms in an unsaturated compound lie on the same side of a double bond: cis-butadiene Compare trans
    Word Origin
    from Latin


    trans-
    Word Origin
    1. a prefix occurring in loanwords from Latin ( transcend; transfix); on this model, used with the meanings &#8220;across,&#8221; &#8220;beyond,&#8221; &#8220;through,&#8221; &#8220;changing thoroughly,&#8221; &#8220;transverse,&#8221; in combination with elements of any origin:
    transisthmian; trans-Siberian; transempirical; transvalue.
    2. Chemistry. a prefix denoting a geometric isomer having a pair of identical atoms or groups on the opposite sides of two atoms linked by a double bond.
    Compare cis- (def 2).

    Origin Expand < Latin, across, beyond, through
     
  15. Nova

    Nova Active Member

    Messages:
    19,111
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    36
    I had to look it up, but I think the following is the definition at issue here:

    (From Wiki)

    In other words, it's an academic term for what most lay people would call "normal", an attempt to avoid labels such as "normal" and "normative" and their biassed (even if positive) meanings.

    I still don't get why use of the term is "hate speech".
     
  16. gxm

    gxm New Member

    Messages:
    3,392
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    It's hate speech because it is a term recently “coined” (around 1994/95 by FtM transsexual Carl Buijs and I find it interesting that Wiki has been “revised” to erase this) to describe/define born women. It is a slur bereft of understanding of what it means to be born female in a patriarchal culture. It's especially hypocritical that people who consider it a "right" to be called by the pronoun of their choice, would find it acceptable to invent terms for people who differ from them. It’s incredibly callous and lacking in empathy to actually believe that to be born female and to be heterosexual is somehow “gender conforming.” When in reality, the most gender-conforming people are those that believe that if a child born with an XY chromosome and male anatomy likes sparkly pink clothing and playing with dolls, well that means that he’s really a girl trapped in a boy’s body because he likes things society (not biology) has classified as "feminine." This is ridiculous. Gender is a man-made tool of oppression. What colors, clothing and/or toys a child prefers does not change their biological sex. XY kids can play with dolls and make-up and XX kids can play with trucks and like to get muddy—that’s simply an individual preference and it has nothing to do with their anatomy.There are plenty of born women who are not gender conforming. Unfortunately, transactivists don’t see us because they have gender tunnel vision. But just because they insist on wearing blinders, doesn’t make us disappear. Stop insulting us by calling us “cis.” Call us what we are: born women. Transactivists like Carl Buijs and Julia Serano do not get to name or define me or my life experience. It's as simple as that.
     
  17. Nova

    Nova Active Member

    Messages:
    19,111
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Uh, gxm, I appreciate your passion, but, with all due respect, I can help but chuckle at your use of the word "heterosexual".

    Where do you think that term originated? Like "cis", it was coined in an attempt to differentiate those with socially normative sexual orientation in contrast with homosexuals, whose preferences are non-conforming relative to socially expected norms.

    I.e., just like "cis". Neither term is per se perjorative. Myself, I am gay ("homosexual") but also cis (my gender identity conforms to my biology). So what?

    I do agree with much of your post, however. Gender identity, perhaps even more than sexual orientation, can be quite fluid. There's no reason to assume a boy who plays with dolls or a girl who plays with trucks is a transexual. (OTOH, a child who tries to cut off her penis at age 10 is sending a pretty clear signal, IMO.)

    What we ought to do is let kids play with whatever they like (as long as it's a safe toy) without our worrying "what it means".
     
  18. AzPistonsGirl

    AzPistonsGirl Detroit to the Bone

    Messages:
    3,930
    Likes Received:
    820
    Trophy Points:
    113
    when I saw this thread title a few days ago, I thought, "no way am I visiting that thread" as I assumed it was all trans bashing. I am so relived to read a respectful discussion going on in here. Tough topic for so many people to understand and discuss. Thank you all for your enlightening thoughts here.
     
  19. gxm

    gxm New Member

    Messages:
    3,392
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Actually that's their definition, not mine. As I stated, I am a born woman. To be frank, I've never understood why people identify themselves by their sexual preferences.

    Using the word "cis" is a way for transactivists to diminish a born woman's life experience. I've read transactivists who accuse born women of "cis privilege" when they discuss their menstrual cycles. As if born women are simply supposed to make their female reproductive organs disappear because it makes a MtF feel less womanly. Sorry, but much of transactivism is just sheer misogyny. Born women menstruate. Born men don't. That's a simple biological fact that can not be wish-fulfilled away.

    And as far as language goes, from a feminist perspective, many words are problematic. "Cis" just happens to be one of the more hateful ones.

    (And please don't bother pointing out that not all born women menstruate, I'm referring to healthy, reproductive-age women.)
     
  20. LaborDayRN

    LaborDayRN Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,643
    Likes Received:
    660
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Many people don't think of their sexual orientation as a preference.
     
  21. Nova

    Nova Active Member

    Messages:
    19,111
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    36
    If we identify ourselves by our sexuality (whether it is considered orientation or preference), it is primarily because we have been taught to do so by a society that considers us queer first, male or female second, and human no higher than third. Moreover, some of us learned a bitter lesson in the 1980s: unless we stand up to be counted, when a so-called "gay" disease such as AIDS comes along, politicians will feel no pressure to fund research for treatment or a cure.

    As for labels, we (gays or transsexuals) didn't invent most of them. I can't help but smile at the umbrage taken by a woman who discovers that social scientists have invented a label for her. I'm sorry she's upset, but welcome to the club!

    The cis label can be applied to men or women. I doubt it will catch on with the general public (it's too close to "sissy"); but I still don't see why it is evidence of misogyny.

    The idea that discussing menstruation is an offense born in privilege is pretty silly. Again, I wouldn't worry that it will become a rule in mainstream society. Thirty years ago a few radical feminists decreed that no one should ever be on top or on the bottom during sex, that all sex must be conducted face to face with both partners at the same level. I'm sure anyone with cable TV can tell us how that idea turned out. People who are trying to improve the world--and God bless 'em!--often misfire along the way. We needn't panic.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice