trial day 49: REBUTTAL; #149

[KPinMN]

To state malice implies a decided lack of compassion and for the overwhelming majority of people here, nothing could be further from the truth.

My ex is diagnosed disordered. I know all too well just how serious his mental illness is. Any compassion, any empathy, I feel for him - for the small, broken boy he once was - ends at the very moment he made a conscious decision that hurting anyone else was acceptable, for any reason. What I feel now, towards him, is more apathy than anything else. I refuse to pity an adult man who terrified me and our children, deliberately, for years; who raped his teenage niece; who stole from my parents shortly before they died; who consistently uses, manipulates, and abuses those who only love him. (There was a time though, because I am only human, that I visited vast pain and great violence to him mentally. I wanted him to feel just a smidgen of what he'd dished out.)

That really is the difference between personality disorders and other mental health diagnoses - a conscious choice to harm, manipulate, or abuse others to your gain. Jodi knew something was wrong with her. Jodi knew she had moments of intense, seemingly uncontrollable anger. Jodi knew she had the capability to, and even did, hurt others. Jodi chose never to pursue treatment that may have afforded her a someday 'normal' life with healthy, loving relationships.

MOO...and perhaps because of my own personal experience having lived with and once loving someone disordered, the only way I can see it.

I agree with you wholeheartedly. I've lived with my BPD mother all my life. She knows there is something wrong with her but the most you can get her to admit is she's depressed, which she asserts usually when is serves her to get the attention she wants. I love her, I think it's sad, but I don't feel bad for her. She has been given opportunity after opportunity to get help for her issues and she has never taken one of these opportunities seriously.

 

[Bravo]

TH's in Court today report Jodie looked pale. I dont think she looked well. If it was a migraine I say pop her a pill. Put a pair of night shades on her. Strap her in her chair and good to go. Oh and an emesis basin.

 

[luvtenniss]

4 words: Aileen Wuornos, Charlize Theron

Very true!

 

[Kattrca]

This has to be so very taxing on the family. I'm sure they want this over as much as anyone, as I am sure they would be mortified if there were a mistrial. Perplexing that she is still manipulating everyone and everything around her.

 

[kmn]

Saw this on another site. Is it true?
Just read another tweet on the home page that the delay was because the duhfense wants to strike all testimony of Dr. D because she’s not a domestic violence expert. Maybe that’s the reason for Mr. M smiling because the judge said no!!! Judge said Dr. will be there in the AM.

I don't think this is true. She has not been confirmed a DV victim.
Dr. D is testifying to another diagnosis, borderline personality disorder. The state is entitled to offer their own experts and diagnoses.

 

[Bravo]

:bump:

Here you go Bravo....

HA!!!!!!! Thanks. It's a hoot :floorlaugh:

 

[Shadow5618]

I am firmly focused on the realities. I put my super-hear-every-detail-of-the-music earphones in my ears, got in a silent room, held my hands over my ears to block any ambient noise and turned the volume up. She said it. I'm sorry, but she did - and I couldn't believe it either. It was REALLY fast - but she said it.

 

[JusticeJunkie]

There is a motion pending about JM not being able to bring up JA's lack of remorse on the basis that it is essentially in conflict with the self defense claim. JSS has postponed ruling on this, but I can't remember how far ago the this was in the minutes.

I remember reading that. IIRC, the judge deferred ruling until after the case had been presented.
I believe she was waiting to see if Arias showed any remorse at all during the proceedings - which of course, she hasn't, and probably never will.

 

[gcharlie]

I'm just now watching testimony from this morning. I gotta' tell you: As much as this trial has destroyed the expert careers of Alyce Laviolette and Dr. Samuels it is going to set Demarte's career for life. She is very good, super bright. Excellent. People will be clamoring to hire her after this.

Really interesting to see her handle JW's questioning.

"That does not sound accurate" and "I am not aware of that" in response to JW asking JDM about recent work in BWS if she is aware that Lenore Walker no longer uses the six criteria, instead uses a trauma informed approach.

It appears that JW was misrepresenting Lenore Walker's work. I only find podcasts which reference a trauma informed approach and that is dealing strictly with children. I am unable to locate any major published works subsequent to the release of the third edition (2009) The Battered Woman Syndrome.

I'm not a lawyer, so I don't know about the ethics of this type of questioning. Nevertheless, JDM answered the questions correctly, including her statement regarding accuracy.

 

[luvtenniss]

Ya but remember how bad Charlize Theron (sp?) looked in the movie Monster? And she is a beauty :floorlaugh:

True. I just can't imagine a truly beautiful person portraying the true evil that is JA.

 

[RadarLuv]

OMG! I am totally dying over here. Best post of the ENTIRE trial!

 

[Lorelilly]

Just heard that JM has 16 rebuttal witnesses. Do we have a list yet?

HE certainly doesn't need all of them. This needs to get to the jury stat, before anymore "weirdness" happens.

 

[VALee]

Please do not be right. I might jump off the "WS jury" if she plays sick all week! :banghead:

I have to say this...I'll bet anyone that says they are jumping off the WS jury if trial is cancelled for tomorrow, they will be back on by Monday at oh, about noon PST (if they ever really logoff WS in the first place after saying they are leaving.) So say I, been there done that one. :rocker:

 

[luvmygarden]

I feel like all the testifying ALV did was really speaking for Jodi. She talked about so much more than just being clinical. Maybe I am wrong but ALV was JA's mouth piece

 

[KPinMN]

Exactly, it's called malingering. Michael Jackson pulled the same carp during his trial, claiming he got a spider bite.

You're right, but I prefer to call it faking illness when I do it to leave work just sounds better :floorlaugh:

 

[nwmouse]

:bump:

Here you go Bravo....

OMG At first I thought "it" looked like Gollum sneaking about, but now when I look at JA's pasty face I keep having flashbacks to: "It rubs the lotion on its skin or it gits the hose again". ala Jame Gumb :floorlaugh:

 

[elementary]

Agreed. Everything.

I was taking issue with the malicious gloating over failure which is, at least in part, due to a very serious disorder. Never said there wasn't choice involved, never said responsibility and justice isn't due, because that's beside my point. What I'm hearing a lot of is that it's OK to make fun of mental illness and a failed life, so long as we agree that the target deserves it.

Personality disorder is not a mental illness, it is a character disorder. The disordered are ego syntonic not ego dystonic, which means, they see nothing wrong with themselves and do not suffer any sort of neurosis or worry about themselves, do not suffer anxiety about themselves like the latter, nor any sense of failure. They are not suffering. And nobody's making fun of mental illness and a 'failed life'. Her life did not fail, she did. She chose to murder. Savagely.

I disagree, choice is what it's all about. And responsibility. Those are the priorities in a civilised, mature world. Not feeling sorry for the bad guy without conscience. Not making out the perpetrator to be the victim.

 

[HildyMac]

To be fair, two psychologists who used different assessments both came up with personality disorder (bipolar is totally different to borderline). Samuels didn't address it, DeMarte diagnosed it as borderline.

I'm overwhelmingly biased, but for me it doesn't get a whole lot more serious than Cluster B personality disorders. And because of that bias, and personal knowledge, it makes her even more potentially dangerous and destructive before she had any diagnosis at all.

It does nothing, nor should it, to excuse or absolve even the tiniest iota of responsibility from Jodi. Because of her disorder, this may very well be the first time Jodi is actually forced to take responsibility for her actions, in fact. Disordered persons sometimes use emotional manipulators, abuse, deceit, etc. in order to avoid culpability with loved ones, friends, co-workers, etc.

JMO

Sorry, meant 'borderline personality disorder' NOT bi-polar....what is the phrase? "I mis-spoke":blushing:

Anyway, my point is that whether her mental condition has anything to do with her confessed killing or not, some juror may feel sorry for her, have empathy for her and base their feelings on that and come up with a not guilty vote. It only takes one, that scares me - and IF that happens, meaning, she has garnered sympathy from ONE juror, then game is over! She is found not guilty!

 

[AZWatcher]

I am firmly focused on the realities. I put my super-hear-every-detail-of-the-music earphones in my ears, got in a silent room, held my hands over my ears to block any ambient noise and turned the volume up. She said it. I'm sorry, but she did - and I couldn't believe it either. It was REALLY fast - but she said it.

I was prepared to totally poo poo this claim... BUT I saw Jodi look up and sort of smirk and KN did too... so maybe she did say it.

 

[JusticeJunkie]

Really interesting to see her handle JW's questioning.

"That does not sound accurate" and "I am not aware of that" in response to JW asking JDM about recent work in BWS if she is aware that Lenore Walker no longer uses the six criteria, instead uses a trauma informed approach.

It appears that JW was misrepresenting Lenore Walker's work. I only find podcasts which reference a trauma informed approach and that is dealing strictly with children. I am unable to locate any major published works subsequent to the release of the third edition (2009) The Battered Woman Syndrome.

I'm not a lawyer, so I don't know about the ethics of this type of questioning. Nevertheless, JDM answered the questions correctly, including her statement regarding accuracy.

Ha ha - I'm thinking willmott looked up the answer over lunch break, said, "Oh, I feel sick", and JA decided she did too. lol