Trial Discussion Thread #16

[jay-jay]

One thing I came across from checking the twitter link you posted https://mobile.twitter.com/reevasteenkamp/media/grid?idx=0&tid=301602849610141696 was image 16/50, literally sent chills down my spine when I read it. Whether it was sent from OP? I don't know how to check that far back, sorry.:/

That image really is quite chilling, isn't it .. I'm not sure that it would necessarily have been sent from anyone/OP, though .. I don't do twitter but I do facebook a lot, and you get thousands of these types of images going around, either shared by people you know (or by people they know), or by sites you are following .. and if something takes your eye, then you might make a quick comment on it, or share it yourself with friends/followers. It would be interesting to know for definite though, whether it was as I describe or if it was actually sent directly to her from someone/OP.

 

[MeeBee]

That image really is quite chilling, isn't it .. I'm not sure that it would necessarily have been sent from anyone/OP, though .. I don't do twitter but I do facebook a lot, and you get thousands of these types of images going around, either shared by people you know (or by people they know), or by sites you are following .. and if something takes your eye, then you might make a quick comment on it, or share it yourself with friends/followers. It would be interesting to know for definite though, whether it was as I describe or if it was actually sent directly to her from someone/OP.

There's no way of knowing where this came from or if she actually held it in her hand. It could definitely be something she found on the internet, thought was funny, and shared it herself. It wasn't sent to her twitter, she shared the photo so there's no way of knowing where it came from.

 

[MeeBee]

Ok looks like she took the image offline. It was originally posted to this tumblr on May 30 2012. So it couldn't have been from Oscar (unless he sent her the image in Dec.) Scroll down for the image.

http://ebrugalsol.tumblr.com

 

[jay-jay]

Apologies if others have posted link already, I know Shane and others have mentioned the dog shooting story around Pistorius psychology and behavior. Here’s the whole, good, wide-raging, article.
At the start of “End of the Rainbow”, Oscar Pistorius recounts to two journalists how he accidently ran over a dog, than, as the dog’s owner come out to berate him, he grabbed his gun and shot the dog in the back of head

Thanks for that, K.T. I had read about that some time back, but had forgotten about it. Another example of something which seems to equate with that certain type of personality, is that type of thing of 'caring' for animals by not having any qualms about putting them out of their misery by their own hand. It always come across to me as a slightly twisted way of trying to show that that person is not really warp-minded, and it's as if they are trying to distance themselves from the types who actively mistreat/torture animals as a child, and put a spin on it by saying they are killing these animals for the animals best interests (which they are, but could you just kill an animal with your own hand with such ease?). My ex partner used to be like that .. he used to tell me stories about how he accidentally ran over a cat and saw it in his rear view mirror (see how close this is to the OP story? ) but instead of shooting it, in the case of OP, what my ex says he did was to reverse back up the road to run it over and finish it off << -- all this said in such a way as to try and show that he is a caring person, but I don't know about anyone else, if I had accidentally run a cat over, I don't think I could find it within myself to actually go and run it over again and finish the job off .. regardless of whether it's better for the animal or not, it would just sicken me to do it.

My ex also once told me about how he was having a smoking break outside the office and saw a blackbird on the ground which was on it's last legs, so he stamped on the bird's head to put it out of it's misery .. again, he thought of it as a good thing, i.e. that he couldn't stand seeing the bird in pain .. which yes, we all do that if our pet is terminally sick and we take it to the vet to have it put down because we don't want to extend that animals suffering .. but to actually stamp on it's head?? (.. what the *advertiser censored** was I doing with this guy??? <<--- reason for that is once I started finding out all this stuff it was too late to try and get out of it, I was scared of him). But, on the other side of the coin, someone else I know is a game keeper, and he is also on the police register/on call if there are any RTA's involving deer and he has to go out and 'dispatch' the deer .. and yet he is a highly responsible individual (and incredibly responsible when it comes to guns and his own gun ownership, I may add). I see quite a difference between the person I know who goes out and shoots game, and who is called to the deer RTAs and my ex, because in the first case it is his job and he is responsible about it but with my ex, it was almost something he used to use when telling these stories (there were a few more of them in addition to the ones I've posted about), to try and demonstrate how 'caring' he was .. well it never came across to me that way, I always found it really quite sinister.

 

[Gbtaketwo]

Yep, the remodeling theory is certainly a strong possibility. If I had to make a guess between the two on probability this would be at the top of my list.

I think my mind's now settled that this wasn't damage wasn't caused by the direct hit from a weapon.

I don't think they look like they were hit directly by the bat either . It is either the bat vibration or door being violently slammed shut .
If it was down to remodelling and the tiling had been done that day then they could have dropped off with very little force .

 

[Gbtaketwo]

Could anyone please provide me with a link to Col Mike Sales testimony .I wanted to re read it and am only finding snippets .
I wanted to check his wording about the syncing of the 2 iPads the evening of the shooting .
TIA

 

[Gbtaketwo]

Thanks for that, K.T. I had read about that some time back, but had forgotten about it. Another example of something which seems to equate with that certain type of personality, is that type of thing of 'caring' for animals by not having any qualms about putting them out of their misery by their own hand. It always come across to me as a slightly twisted way of trying to show that that person is not really warp-minded, and it's as if they are trying to distance themselves from the types who actively mistreat/torture animals as a child, and put a spin on it by saying they are killing these animals for the animals best interests (which they are, but could you just kill an animal with your own hand with such ease?). My ex partner used to be like that .. he used to tell me stories about how he accidentally ran over a cat and saw it in his rear view mirror (see how close this is to the OP story? ) but instead of shooting it, in the case of OP, what my ex says he did was to reverse back up the road to run it over and finish it off << -- all this said in such a way as to try and show that he is a caring person, but I don't know about anyone else, if I had accidentally run a cat over, I don't think I could find it within myself to actually go and run it over again and finish the job off .. regardless of whether it's better for the animal or not, it would just sicken me to do it.

My ex also once told me about how he was having a smoking break outside the office and saw a blackbird on the ground which was on it's last legs, so he stamped on the bird's head to put it out of it's misery .. again, he thought of it as a good thing, i.e. that he couldn't stand seeing the bird in pain .. which yes, we all do that if our pet is terminally sick and we take it to the vet to have it put down because we don't want to extend that animals suffering .. but to actually stamp on it's head?? (.. what the *advertiser censored** was I doing with this guy??? <<--- reason for that is once I started finding out all this stuff it was too late to try and get out of it, I was scared of him). But, on the other side of the coin, someone else I know is a game keeper, and he is also on the police register/on call if there are any RTA's involving deer and he has to go out and 'dispatch' the deer .. and yet he is a highly responsible individual (and incredibly responsible when it comes to guns and his own gun ownership, I may add). I see quite a difference between the person I know who goes out and shoots game, and who is called to the deer RTAs and my ex, because in the first case it is his job and he is responsible about it but with my ex, it was almost something he used to use when telling these stories (there were a few more of them in addition to the ones I've posted about), to try and demonstrate how 'caring' he was .. well it never came across to me that way, I always found it really quite sinister.

As I said yesterday we don't know for sure that this incident I occurred but hypothetically putting a dog out of its misery is not too sinister to me it would be more the lack of empathy for the owner and him not asking him first .

 

[jay-jay]

Just bringing this over from the end of the last thread as I wanted to reply to it .. Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Trial Discussion Thread #15

The killer told Baba "Everything's fine" just after killing a woman in his bathroom.

I think it's safe to say Pistorius has lied.
Thanks

When I first heard that, it came across as rather telling .. but actually, thinking about it, people don't really react in ways that you think they might, in tragic circumstances .. for instance, when my dad died years ago and I was working at the time, about a week later someone in another office I used to speak to on the phone quite regularly asked me how my dad was .. and I have absolutely no idea why I did this (well, I do, I'll explain in a minute) but I actually started to say that he was ok even though he had died about a week before .. it was because I just didn't know how to say that he had died/couldn't bring myself to say it. I can't remember exactly how that phone conversation went, but eventually I was passed over to another work college because I was quite distressed and in tears by then and I explained to her that I didn't know why I started saying my dad was ok when in fact he had died, and she was thoroughly understanding about it. So it is actually possible for completely the wrong words to come out of your mouth in such circumstances, and doesn't necessarily mean you are lying. Not that I am sticking up for OP, as I think most here will already know, I'm pretty sure OP knew exactly who he was shooting, in a fit of pique .. but I just kept thinking about this particular comment of OP's and how I had once said to someone on the phone that my dad was ok, when actually he was dead.

 

[jay-jay]

As I said yesterday we don't know for sure that this incident I occurred but hypothetically putting a dog out of its misery is not too sinister to me it would be more the lack of empathy for the owner and him not asking him first .

I'm not really sure how to describe this .. it's not so much the 'putting the animal out of it's misery' that is the problem, it's the way that that type of person talks about it to other people, and the way they recount the story to them .. I can't quite explain it, but there is something quite odd about the way they do it .. this bit might help, taken from the original post on this thread:

"A couple of years ago, two journalist friends of mine spent an afternoon with Oscar Pistorius. For much of the time, they recall, Oscar was quiet and self-contained. And then, apropos of nothing, he told a story. "


.. and then, apropros of nothing, he told a story ..

.. there is something about the way in which these types of stories are recounted, by these types of people .. as I tried to explain in my initial post where I described how my ex partner used to talk about similar experiences. I used to find it odd at the time he was telling them, because it was always done in such a way as to try and show what a caring person he was. I dunno, it's difficult to describe, sorry.

 

[Gbtaketwo]

I'm not really sure how to describe this .. it's not so much the 'putting the animal out of it's misery' that is the problem, it's the way that that type of person talks about it to other people, and the way they recount the story to them .. I can't quite explain it, but there is something quite odd about the way they do it .. this bit might help, taken from the original post on this thread:

"A couple of years ago, two journalist friends of mine spent an afternoon with Oscar Pistorius. For much of the time, they recall, Oscar was quiet and self-contained. And then, apropos of nothing, he told a story. "


.. and then, apropros of nothing, he told a story ..

.. there is something about the way in which these types of stories are recounted, by these types of people .. as I tried to explain in my initial post where I described how my ex partner used to talk about similar experiences. I used to find it odd at the time he was telling them, because it was always done in such a way as to try and show what a caring person he was. I dunno, it's difficult to describe, sorry.

Ah yes see what your saying . It was odd that he would bring it up voluntary in an interview if true that is .

 

[Interested Bystander]

Just catching up on overnight/morning posts. Thank you everyone.

I wonder if Nel has looked at her Twitter account. Some telling tweets there. However, OP's name is not mentioned so it may be difficult to tie them specifically to their relationship (in the legal sense).

Not sure about the tiles. From what I can see in the photos before the door was removed, there are tiles displaced. However, the photos are not too clear. Maybe the power of the shots hitting the door (or the bat hitting the door) reverberated through the door frame and loosened them. I don't think if a tiler had been working on them during the day he would have left the bathroom that untidy. The tiles would have been stacked somewhere out of the way.

 

[Viper]

@reevasteenkamp 1 Nov 2012
Whatsapp. Keeping me up wayyyy beyond my bedtime since 2011. *puts phone down*

All those whatsapps messages............all of them Oscar........all of them.

I believe the WharsApp texts are coming next week. We will see. But it would seem highly unusual for Reeva to not use electronic communications / media (WhatsApp texts and Twitter) past 10:00pm.

 

[katydid23]

Just bringing this over from the end of the last thread as I wanted to reply to it .. Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Trial Discussion Thread #15



When I first heard that, it came across as rather telling .. but actually, thinking about it, people don't really react in ways that you think they might, in tragic circumstances .. for instance, when my dad died years ago and I was working at the time, about a week later someone in another office I used to speak to on the phone quite regularly asked me how my dad was .. and I have absolutely no idea why I did this (well, I do, I'll explain in a minute) but I actually started to say that he was ok even though he had died about a week before .. it was because I just didn't know how to say that he had died/couldn't bring myself to say it. I can't remember exactly how that phone conversation went, but eventually I was passed over to another work college because I was quite distressed and in tears by then and I explained to her that I didn't know why I started saying my dad was ok when in fact he had died, and she was thoroughly understanding about it. So it is actually possible for completely the wrong words to come out of your mouth in such circumstances, and doesn't necessarily mean you are lying. Not that I am sticking up for OP, as I think most here will already know, I'm pretty sure OP knew exactly who he was shooting, in a fit of pique .. but I just kept thinking about this particular comment of OP's and how I had once said to someone on the phone that my dad was ok, when actually he was dead.

I completely understand what you are saying, in your situation. However, if in fact, your father had been laying on the cold floor, near death, and a security guard called from right outside your door, would u have said things were fine?

I think these 2 situations are very different. jmo :moo:

 

[patCee]

I completely understand what you are saying, in your situation. However, if in fact, your father had been laying on the cold floor, near death, and a security guard called from right outside your door, would u have said things were fine?

I think these 2 situations are very different. jmo :moo:

I agree the 2 situations are different. Most people develop emotional intelligence whilst growing up, and continue to do so throughout their adult years. When this is lacking a person learnsfrom others what are normal feelings rather than developing them for themselves. This becomes evident when someone uses stories, as quoted above, to show they care (have feelings) but do so out of context. Therefore it comes across as odd, or inappropriate.
As we know OP is able to show a caring side (learned, rather than internalised), but this also masks his impulsive, irrational behaviour, that shows lack of care towards others.
I hope I've explained this in a reasonably clear way.

 

[jay-jay]

I've been poking around online trying to find more details about OP's previous relationships and life in general, and found this article below that I hadn't seen before.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/oscar-pistorius-nearly-died-car-1740073

I want to be careful not to give 100% weight to all of these articles, being that they are not evidence and merely just things we are reading online.

“I woke up as my car ploughed into the guardrail. One side of the vehicle was completely destroyed. My behaviour was unforgivably stupid and I regret it to this day,” he wrote.


:facepalm:

Killer Oscar Pistorius nearly died when he crashed his car while *driving 400 miles through the night to settle a “blistering row” with an ex-girlfriend.

The South African Paralympic hero later sneaked to the home of Vicky Miles to surprise her on St Valentine’s Day.

He's got quite a thing about Valentine's Day, hasn't he ..

Revealing his bizarre surprise for Vicky he said: “On Valentine’s Day in 2006 Vicky awoke to find that while she was sleeping I had been to her house to hang 200 coloured balloons (I blew up each one individually) in the trees, in her driveway and on her fence. I then took a can of spray paint and artfully wrote ‘I Love You, Tiger’ on the road in front of her gate. She was deeply touched.”

I'm not sure about anyone else, but I find that quite an extreme type of surprise .. (and you don't just go spray painting stuff all over roads .. well, not in the UK you don't).

 

[james83]

Just bringing this over from the end of the last thread as I wanted to reply to it .. Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Trial Discussion Thread #15



When I first heard that, it came across as rather telling .. but actually, thinking about it, people don't really react in ways that you think they might, in tragic circumstances .. for instance, when my dad died years ago and I was working at the time, about a week later someone in another office I used to speak to on the phone quite regularly asked me how my dad was .. and I have absolutely no idea why I did this (well, I do, I'll explain in a minute) but I actually started to say that he was ok even though he had died about a week before .. it was because I just didn't know how to say that he had died/couldn't bring myself to say it. I can't remember exactly how that phone conversation went, but eventually I was passed over to another work college because I was quite distressed and in tears by then and I explained to her that I didn't know why I started saying my dad was ok when in fact he had died, and she was thoroughly understanding about it. So it is actually possible for completely the wrong words to come out of your mouth in such circumstances, and doesn't necessarily mean you are lying. Not that I am sticking up for OP, as I think most here will already know, I'm pretty sure OP knew exactly who he was shooting, in a fit of pique .. but I just kept thinking about this particular comment of OP's and how I had once said to someone on the phone that my dad was ok, when actually he was dead.

What bothers me about the everything is fine line is this
at 3:21:11 Oscar gets of the phone from Netcare and says they told him to bring Reeva to hospital, yet at 3:22:05 he answers the call from Baba, further more at 3:26 when the Stander's and Baba arrive Oscar is only just carrying Reeva down the stairs.
Correct me if i'm wrong here but to me if your partner is laying seriously injured and you have been told to bring her in at 3:21:11 how long would it be before you had her in your car?.
There's something fishy about that period of time.

 

[Val1]

That image really is quite chilling, isn't it .. I'm not sure that it would necessarily have been sent from anyone/OP, though .. I don't do twitter but I do facebook a lot, and you get thousands of these types of images going around, either shared by people you know (or by people they know), or by sites you are following .. and if something takes your eye, then you might make a quick comment on it, or share it yourself with friends/followers. It would be interesting to know for definite though, whether it was as I describe or if it was actually sent directly to her from someone/OP.

I agree, probably no way to know for sure. What made me think someone had sent it to her was that she seemed to be responding to it:

Hahahahaha. Ha. Ha. Ha. pic.twitter.com/fCDcmP35
11:13am - 29 Dec 12

but it does have "by Reeva Steenkamp" under it. I don't know if just adding it to your pics in Twitter will do that, anyone know?

 

[jay-jay]

What bothers me about the everything is fine line is this
at 3:21:11 Oscar gets of the phone from Netcare and says they told him to bring Reeva to hospital, yet at 3:22:05 he answers the call from Baba, further more at 3:26 when the Stander's and Baba arrive Oscar is only just carrying Reeva down the stairs.
Correct me if i'm wrong here but to me if your partner is laying seriously injured and you have been told to bring her in at 3:21:11 how long would it be before you had her in your car?.
There's something fishy about that period of time.

Yup ..

.. and anyway, is it really the case that they would advise someone to bring them in themselves in a car? I know that the supposed reason for this is because it would've taken longer for an ambulance to reach the scene than it would be for him to take her to the hospital in a car, but I would've thought that usually the advice would be not to move the patient in case you end up doing even more damage. Would our ambulance service in the UK ever advise someone who has been extremely seriously injured, to bring them in in the car? There are many places in this country that are quite remote, but I can't ever see a scenario when our ambulance service would actually say to someone to move the patient, pick them up, shove them into a car and drive hell for leather to the hospital.

The emergency services will have recordings of those calls though, and what was said, so he would be incredibly stupid to have lied about that bit .. but it will be interesting to see if he did or not. But, if that really is their procedure over there, then I find it really quite bizzare.

 

[Viper]

The tiles were bashed down with the bat IMO, they and the bashed in tub plate account for the first set of bangs that the neighbors heard. Finding alternatives for why they are on the floor is cool, but they were still bashed and fell off from strikes by the bat.

Regarding vibration causing it related to the two "minor" marks on the WC door, that is not likely at all; "minor" damage from just two strikes, those strikes appear to have much less force behind them and are consistent with OP trying to scare a defiant Reeva. And then the Vibration Theory? The greatest amount of energy that the door created when it was shut is delivered to the right side door frame. So if is was vibration (energy) that caused the damage to the tiles then it would have been the tiles on the right that would be on the floor.

The tiles bashed and lying on the floor, the bathtub plate bashed, the dead woman lying in the WC, the barged through bedroom doors, the damaged window in the bathroom, the victims phone found outside of the WC, and the killer's spare phone that he did not use that night set on the bathroom floor as a prop; there really is no way to explain this other than to take all of them as one. Finding an innocent excuse for them one by one overlooks what one sees with ones own eyes. IMHO

 

[jay-jay]

I agree, probably no way to know for sure. What made me think someone had sent it to her was that she seemed to be responding to it:

I do that all the time with pix that come up on my facebook feed (pix that have come from all over the place on facebook) .. if it's something funny I might reply to it with a 'LOL' type comment (and then I might share it as well, if I think it's something that my facebook friends will like)