Trial Discussion Thread #17

[MeeBee]

No, he clearly states he heard the window sliding open, he somehow missed the door shutting, the key turning in the lock, toilet being flushed.
Funny that oscar only ever hears what suits him.

Again, it's possible the door shutting could sound like a window opening with the fans blaring in his ears. If he thought it was a window opening, then that's what he's going to say.

 

[james83]

Again, it's possible the door shutting could sound like a window opening with the fans blaring in his ears. If he thought it was a window opening, then that's what he's going to say.

Sorry but your jumping the shark now.

 

[BritsKate]

Me neither .. after having read K.T.'s Daily Mail link (and I tried reading that with a bit of scepticism, it being the DM an all ..! but it did sound fairly factual). But, to be honest, I don't think it has any bearing on the case itself whether she had previously been in an abusive relationship or not .. it's interesting to know just as background in regard to Reeva, but doesn't make a lot of difference as regards her relationship with OP. Even if she hadn't had a previous abusive relationship, I think she would've recognised when she was being treated badly by him, and taken him to task over it.

People who have been in an abusive relationship very often repeat that cycle with new relationships...that's why I find it relevant. I personally find a lot of Oscar's behaviors to be giant, neon red flags.

I'm not certain that Reeva would have recognised it for what I believe it was either. If her past abuse was overt, covert abuse such as gaslighting or ridicule may not have been easily identifiable as actual abuse. Emotional abuse can be notoriously difficult to identify, often even for victims.

JMO

 

[soozieqtips]

No, he clearly states he heard the window sliding open, he somehow missed the door shutting, the key turning in the lock, toilet being flushed.
Funny that oscar only ever hears what suits him.

BBM - And missed other noises the 'intruder' would have made climbing through the window and landing on the floor. I'd like that scene to be replicated with fans on to know if he could really only hear ONE sound (conveniently). Also, what made him wake up in the first place? He doesn't say what woke him up at 3am. He just says: "I woke up at 3am and went to bring in the fans..." - if I wake up at an odd time like that, it's normally to go to the loo, or because I'm thirsty, or because I'm too hot or too cold. I don't wake up for no reason like OP apparently did.

 

[MeeBee]

Sorry but your jumping the shark now.

That's why they call me Fonzie.

 

[steveml]

I am confused about the ipads being synced. I thought the two synced ipads belonged to Oscar, one was a 2 and one was a 3 and they were being synced to load 3 with content from 2. That Reeva's ipad was totally separate and was hers alone.

Can anyone clarify this?

Thanks in advance; just trying to keep up!

I think from memory iPad2 and iPad3 were OP's and were synched, the identical bookmarks are what led me to believe this, as this would be normal when you get a newer device. I'll try and find out though.

The deleting of the history doesn't surprise me as the vast majority of guys would delete the iPad history if they've been looking at *advertiser censored*...

...allegedly...so my mate tells me...:angel:

 

[Cherwell]

However, if her uncle had said it, that is different. I still don't know how her uncle would know and not her own mother.

I sometimes kept things from my mother if I thought it would upset or worry her. I confided in my uncle instead. So I can relate to that.

 

[steveml]

The PT have got to be a bit careful in pursuing the phone delay issue too intensely.
Once they start down that road, the DT could really start to push hard for the case to be thrown out due to contamination.

Any suggestion of not using the phone info. because it could be contaminated evidence is probably insignificant compared to the crime scene being walked over without shoe covers, a bullet shell not recovered from the scene, missing items from the house, and the gun handled without gloves. The police will be mightily relieved that this is a case where the shooter admits to handling the gun, as this had led to many prosecution cases being dismissed.

Dismissal of the case is the last thing I want to see, as it would let OP off the hook. He deserves the correct punishment whatever the outcome.

 

[Gbtaketwo]

I think from memory iPad2 and iPad3 were OP's and were synched, the identical bookmarks are what led me to believe this, as this would be normal when you get a newer device. I'll try and find out though.

The deleting of the history doesn't surprise me as the vast majority of guys would delete the iPad history if they've been looking at *advertiser censored*...

...allegedly...so my mate tells me...:angel:

We believe you lol

Back to iPads ,I have been trying to get to the bottom of this myself .
I understood ( but could be wrong ) that there were only 2 iPads on the scene 1 Reeva's 1 op's .
This is where I am thinking there may be some evidence that has been put before the judge that we can't relate fully to yet .
If OP and Reeva's iPads had been synced intentionally then that could indicate many things that could cause an argument if indeed one had taken place .
I was think when i checked the iPad was used for *advertiser censored* after the history had been deleted ..... again could be wrong as I am not a very experienced web sleuth
Another thing I have been reading up on is Nel and his reputation and am still fairly confident that he wouldn't have brought these charges if he wasn't reasonably confident of his case ?
Surely he would have just charged him with murder or culpable homicide ?

 

[MeeBee]

We believe you lol

Back to iPads ,I have been trying to get to the bottom of this myself .
I understood ( but could be wrong ) that there were only 2 iPads on the scene 1 Reeva's 1 op's .
This is where I am thinking there may be some evidence that has been put before the judge that we can't relate fully to yet .
If OP and Reeva's iPads had been synced intentionally then that could indicate many things that could cause an argument if indeed one had taken place .
I was think when i checked the iPad was used for *advertiser censored* after the history had been deleted ..... again could be wrong as I am not a very experienced web sleuth
Another thing I have been reading up on is Nel and his reputation and am still fairly confident that he wouldn't have brought these charges if he wasn't reasonably confident of his case ?
Surely he would have just charged him with murder or culpable homicide ?

I'm still fairly certain the synced iPads were Oscar's, probably due to a common application that was open and recording his history to the devices.

 

[MeeBee]

http://olympictalk.nbcsports.com/2014/03/19/oscar-pistorius-trial-ipad-web-history/

I think Reeva's phone was in the house and Oscar's two iPads. This article indicates he has more than one ipad.

Also Wednesday, a technology expert testified while court-room screens displayed the web search history of one of Pistorius’ iPads from Feb. 13, 2013, the day before he fatally shot girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp.

 

[Viper]

Then it appears her mother simply may not have known.

But driving/speeding recklessly is not abuse. Neither is arguing.

Yes it is. The later, arguing, goes without comment. The speeding and driving recklessly with an unwilling terrified passenger really needs very little comment as well.

 

[Gbtaketwo]

I'm still fairly certain the synced iPads were Oscar's, probably due to a common application that was open and recording his history to the devices.

So were there 3 at the scene ?
I am going to re read the IT guys evidence because I definitely thought one was Reeva's . Unless I am confusing that with her phone .

 

[MeeBee]

Yes it is. The later, arguing, goes without comment. The speeding and driving recklessly with an unwilling terrified passenger really needs very little comment as well.

You think arguing is abuse? You've never argued with a significant other?

 

[MeeBee]

So were there 3 at the scene ?
I am going to re read the IT guys evidence because I definitely thought one was Reeva's . Unless I am confusing that with her phone .

From what I can tell there were only two and they were Oscar's.

 

[Gbtaketwo]

Yes it is. The later, arguing, goes without comment. The speeding and driving recklessly with an unwilling terrified passenger really needs very little comment as well.

I think in one of the texts OP does actually say that Reeva didn't like him to drive so fast so it was an issue between them but not sure to what extent .

 

[Gbtaketwo]

From what I can tell there were only two and they were Oscar's.

Don't suppose you have a link to Col Mike Sales full testimony and cross examination . I have only read it on Lisa's blog .

 

[Viper]

You think arguing is abuse? You've never argued with a significant other?

Reeva in her tweets speaks of OPs constant "tantrums" directed at Reeva's actions, jealousy, her accent, gum chewing, (wanting Reeva to change to suit what OP believed she should be) etc... Having an argument, like you and I are now or like we might have with a family member, is not abusive until it turns personal and is done constantly, like OP did to Reeva.

 

[Noisy Fan]

It reached 91.4F in Pretoria on Feb 13, 2013. At 8pm it was 75F. At 2am it was in the 62F range. Pretoria is at an elevation of 4500' above sea level.

http://www.wunderground.com/history...retoria&req_state=&req_statename=South+Africa

The air conditioning in Oscars home was broken. The use of fans to cool the house and being placed outside on the deck so they would not be noisy, makes perfect sense.

Retiring to bed at 10pm does not preclude minor activity by either party between that time and 3am.

The house cooled down and the ambient noise level in the neighbourhood dropped between 10pm and 3am. It is most likely that they woke up slightly chilly (outside temperature was 62F at 3am) and aware of the noisy fan (ambient noise level was now lower than at 10pm). That big fan on the stand looks like it could move a lot of air and my experience with that type of fan is that they are noisy.


Being chilly increases the need to pee and slipping quietly to the toilet while Oscar is bringing in the fans seems in context with normal human behaviour. (Also possibly using phone light to navigate trip). Oscar needed to wait for the fans to power down before moving them. Does he have to hurry in the middle of the night?


It has been confirmed (phone data and other) that Oscar had a bad right shoulder. Roux says he had a medical patch on the night in question. It is probable he slept on the left side of the bed so he could face Reeva. Door to deck was open with noisy fans going. At some time before he brought the fans in he spoke to Reeva. Possibly since Reeva was on the window side closest to the fans now blowing in 62F air, she might have mentioned to him that she was cold and ask him to close up the room. If the bathroom window was closed then the bathroom would still be muggy and hot compared to the bedroom.

Sunrise was at around 5:51 AM on Feb. 14 2013 so closing the curtains and drapes to keep the room dark for sleeping is also normal. Doors were closed because it was now chilly in the room.

This is based on the defence model and is not necessarily what really happened but rather an attempt to understand if the model is workable.

:coldout:

 

[MeeBee]

Don't suppose you have a link to Col Mike Sales full testimony and cross examination . I have only read it on Lisa's blog .

I don't! I was watching his testimony but finding the testimony from video archives has proven difficult for me. Here is the video archive for the trial if you'd like to try and see if you can find it. I don't know if it's the full archive though.

http://www.wildabouttrial.com/one_off/oscar-pistorius-trial-archive/