Trial Discussion Thread #19 - 14.04.07, Day 17

Discussion in 'Oscar Pistorius' started by bessie, Mar 25, 2014.

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  1. lisasalinger

    lisasalinger Juror13

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    He waffled greatly on the sequence of shots/injuries. He started off with Roux telling the court he felt very comfortable with his assertions and then Nel made it hugely apparent on cross that he didn't have a clue about how the holes in the door related to the injuries. If he wasn't sure, he shouldn't have committed to his testimony.

    The wood grain striations is a nonsensical conclusion to me as well. How does a flat pattern on wood leave a striation?? My impression of that was he pulled that opinion out of his butt.

    Botha claimed there was no blood spatter on the wall so she wasn't on top of the rack, then Nel shows him pics that blood spatter was on the wall and toilet lid and he's like ok, her head was near the toilet.

    In talking about the splinters, Botha tells the state they should probably do some testing of black talon bullets in the door. Um, they did! Clearly he didn't study Mangena's testimony very closely.

    The moment towards the end where Nel informs him that Reeva was primed for danger was classic. He had to concede that she likely could have screamed in those conditions.

    One of my favorite parts of the day... Roux pulled a big oops... Yea those double taps was a goof on his behalf. Are you kidding me? I think the manner in which the shooter shot his gun that night is a fairly huge point to understand. If Roux doesn't understand what happened that night, his client is screwed! Or maybe he just Stipped ;)
     
  2. TorisMom003

    TorisMom003 New Member

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    "In advance" can be anytime from a year before to a minute before, IMO. And no, I am not suggesting that OP decided to kill Reeva a year before.

    I do believe that OP decided sometime that night/early morning hours that he was going to kill Reeva. I believe that his reputation was on the line, as well as his sponsors and his career, if any more bad behavior on his part was revealed. OP enjoyed being the golden boy of SA. The one that overcame so much to become so famous, wealthy and adored by many. I believe that Reeva threatened all of that, by being able to tell the truth about their relationship and how OP really was behind closed doors.

    MOO
     
  3. BritsKate

    BritsKate Well-Known Member

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    Aww. Give poor Botha a break. He's not a ballistician after all. ;)

    Please pardon errors as posted via Tapatalk with a less than stellar user.
     
  4. Val1

    Val1 New Member

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    I definitely recall reading that RS had said at some point that Valentine's was important to OP. I'll try to find it..
     
  5. minor4th

    minor4th Verified Attorney

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    But really does any of that matter?

    Does it matter whether the marks on the back wounds were from cloth or magazine rack or whatever?

    Does it matter that he agrees that there's no way one can conclusively determine the order of the shots?

    Does it matter whether she landed on top of the magazine rack of in front of it?

    And the scenario given about Reeva being primed to scream - well that scenario assumes that Oscar told the truth about thinking there was an intruder and yelled out to Reeva to call police. So how does that help the state's case for premeditated murder?

    This is why I say this expert did not lend much to either side. He raised the possibility that Reeva would not scream if shot with 4 bullets in quick succession - and I think that is the only point the defense really needs to make with this witness.
     
  6. minor4th

    minor4th Verified Attorney

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    This is what I am wondering too - from those of you who thought he intended to kill Reeva. That just does not make any sense at all IMO
     
  7. lisasalinger

    lisasalinger Juror13

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    I respect your thoughts on this. I too felt emotional when he first took the stand.

    It's what makes us human, to have empathy for other people.

    I believe that he acted pretty horribly that night and I think it's a d@mn shame that he ruined everything he worked so hard for. I never want to see anybody's life turn out that way. But I can also separate out the responsibility I believe he needs to take because after all he CHOSE to use that gun. He has to live with that and pay for it.

    I don't deny him his moment on the stand to give some backstory if it's relevant. Hard to know what's really relevant, I suspect much of it was not. But this is his day in court so I can look the other way.

    I know many will say Reeva deserved her day in court and I don't disagree at all. Unfortunately, when you are on trial, trial is about you. So yea, we have to listen to his story.

    I do tend to believe that he has great remorse over this probably for both selfish and unselfish reasons. I choose to believe that most humans are not all evil and not all good.

    There are my thoughts about his start today. I wasn't pissed, I wasn't offended, I wasn't swayed, it just is what it is. Tragic.
     
  8. Gryffindor

    Gryffindor Former Member

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    Minor, if you wouldn't mind giving your opinion:

    Take it as Reeva didn't scream or Oscar couldn't hear them (ballistics acoustics in confined space etc)

    How would you account for the State witnesses hearing female screams?

    Thanks :)
     
  9. minor4th

    minor4th Verified Attorney

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    Well, if you think he intended to kill Reeva, it's either he planned it and carried it out, OR he thought it was an intruder but then heard Reeva scream and thought, "what the hell, it's Reeva and not an intruder, I'll just kill her anyway."

    I don't necessarily disagree that shooting into a door may be reckless and may indicate some culpability - but do not tell me that you consider it equally morally wrong to intend to shoot and kill your girlfriend compared to accidentally killing your girlfriend when you intended to kill an intruder.
     
  10. minor4th

    minor4th Verified Attorney

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    I don't know yet. There are two possibilities:

    1. They all heard female screams and they weren't mistaken, and somehow this is going to be proven through Nel's cross examination of defense witnesses, or

    2. They heard Oscar screaming and thought it was a female.

    And there's another possibility:

    Reeva screamed at some point after the first shot, and Oscar didn't hear her but some of the neighbors did.
     
  11. kittychi

    kittychi Active Member

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    Close. I think she ran in there in fear because she did or said something that angered him out of control. I think he could have had the gun then or grabbed it after she was already in there.

    I don't think he wanted her dead, per se, but in the heat and anger of the moment, that's what happened. Temporary insanity.

    I also think he had been drinking, but that point is moot because he spent most of the morning at the jailhouse before they took him to the hospital for toxicology tests. That is the only thing that explains his impulsive, extremely poor judgment IMO.
     
  12. lisasalinger

    lisasalinger Juror13

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    Yes it matters that witnesses be credible.
     
  13. laurvelous

    laurvelous Member

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    This, to me, could justify his accidentally shooting her: if he was shouting at what he thought was an intruder, and Reeva had been going to pee once he got up to get the fans, maybe she also thought there was an intruder and hid in the toilet. He came in shooting, before he realized she wasn't answering him from the other room and had gone into the toilet. Negligent on his part to shoot before seeing the threat, sure, but situations like this happen in the blink of an eye.
     
  14. minor4th

    minor4th Verified Attorney

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    You don't think being jumpy and paranoid explains it?
     
  15. minor4th

    minor4th Verified Attorney

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    Plausible and consistent with the evidence we have seen
     
  16. vansleuths

    vansleuths New Member

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    Just a thought but OP tends to vomit and get undone when he sees the autopsy pictures.

    Could Nel try and rattle him by showing him the autopsy pictures while he is in the witness stand and start by asking him questions on those pictures.
     
  17. minor4th

    minor4th Verified Attorney

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    Of course it does. But there was nothing in this expert's testimony that really makes or breaks the case. If you don't believe anything he said, it really doesn't change anything.
     
  18. TorisMom003

    TorisMom003 New Member

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    What intruder? That's the point here. According to OP he thought that it was an intruder. Thought. He didn't know, according to him. He fired a gun 4 times at "someone", intending to kill them. I make a habit of not shooting at anyone unless I know who they are, why they are there and if they have a weapon that they are going to use against me. But that's just me.

    MOO
     
  19. TorisMom003

    TorisMom003 New Member

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    It must have mattered to the defense, he was their witness after all.
     
  20. minor4th

    minor4th Verified Attorney

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    Ok, and as reckless as you believe that to be - you think that is just as morally wrong as chasing your girlfriend down and shooting her dead?

    I do not believe that.
     
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