Trial Discussion Thread #38 - 14.05.13 Day 31

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His version cannot be true because 4witness heard her bloodcurdling screams before and whilst the gun was fired four times.
A fifth witness heard an argument lasting over 1 hour before the shots.
You cannot just ignore what these witnesses heard.
Furthermore, the bullets were aimed directly at reeva, where she was standing behind the door, and directly at the magazine rack. Look at the photo of the lazer beams showing the angle of the shots and where they hit. They were intended to hit the victim, and kill her, because that's what hollow point bullets do. He CANNOT say he didn't mean to kill anyone.

Many agree with this. The question is does the Court believe/disbelieve it?
 
The states case is that OP and Reeva had an imaginary fight and he chased her to the bathroom and intentionally shot her through the toilet door while on his stumps. And somehow before he shot her she was screaming and he was also yelling for help and there are three unexplained gunshots that woke up the Stipps 10 minutes before Reeva was actually shot.

And the states case has changed over the course of the trial. At first they claimed premeditation because OP had on his prosthesis and was a couple inches from the door when he shot; and because he never called security or ambulance - but then they had to concede that he was actually on his stumps when he shot and he did call both ambulance and security. And the states witnesses agree the gunshots were before the cricket bat, and the Stipps heard gunshots at 3-ish, but apparently the state is going to argue against their own witnesses.

Makes no sense.

"Imaginary fight"? A neighbour heard it so I'm not sure how it is imaginary.

"Somehow before he shot her she was screaming ". What do you mean" somehow "? Why would she not be able to scream? Again, this wasn't dreamed up by the prosecution, it as heard by many neighbours who have no vested interest in this at all.

Can you explain why there was other damage such as the smashed in plate on the bathtub, broken bedroom door, ipads thrown about on the floor out of their cases etc?

I've been on the receiving end of a crazy boyfriend in a rage, and that's exactly the damage left in the wake of one of his rampages.

I also ended up locked in the toilet with him smashing on the door to get at my while I screamed for my life.

How you can look at all the evidence and say "it doesn't make sense" is astounding. It's OP's story that does not make sense.
 
Yep agreed - they are going with whatever sticks. I guess sorta like conspiracy theories. That's how Roux has been working anyway. Make all these random theories.

Here are some others that they can consider:

1. Demonic possession
2. Alien abduction
3. Cyborg chip insertion (aka Robocop style)
4. Violent transformation (aka the HULK)
etc

Don't forget this one....

5. he's part of the Illuminati http://s2.hubimg.com/u/8026103_f260.jpg
 
So we'll find out in a few minutes whether judge refers OP for evaluation or not. Pins and needles ...
 
http://www.saflii.org/za/cases/ZAGPPHC/2014/169.html

After the testimony of the accused the State applied to re-open its case, which application was not opposed and was granted.

[17] Jacobus Cornelius Coetzee (Coetzee) is a registered Clinical Psychologist who.....(snipped).

[18] He evaluated the accused at the request of the court whilst the accused was under observation at Weskoppies Hospital in Pretoria.

[19] In his psychological interview with the accused, the accused reported to him the voices that scream at him usually at night, and throw him with birds and chickens. The voices tell him to take a cable wire to hang himself and sometimes cut himself with a razor or to fight people.

[20] Coetzee conducted a psychometric test on the accused.

20.1 Under the personality assessment inventory (PAI), which test provides information relevant for clinical diagnosis, treatment planning and screening for psychypathology and covers constructs most relevant to a broad-based assessment of mental disorders, the accused answered the questions in a way to create a distorted profile. His interpretation of the marked elevation on the negative impression scale is that the accused made a deliberate attempt to create an overly negative impression of himself. Coetzee holds the view that this is indicative of an attempt to malinger psychiatric symptoms.

20.2 Under structured inventory of malingered symptomatology (SIMS), which test is a multi-axial, self-administered screening measure for detection of malingering in clinical and forensic settings, the accused scored positive for attempted malingering for all of the scales on psychosis, neurologic impairment, amnestic disorders, low intelligence and affective disorders. Coetzee interprets this as that the accused endorsed a high frequency of symptoms that are highly atypical in patients with genuine psychiatric or cognitive disorders, this may indicate an attempt to malinger these symptoms.

20.3 Under the inventory of legal knowledge (ILK), which is a test designed to assist the forensic examiner in assessing reponse styles of defendants undergoing evaluations of their competency to stand trial and is a measure of a defendant’s approach to inquiries about his legal knowledge, the accused obtained a score of 50, which score falls in the upper end of the normal range. Coetzee interprets this as that the test results support the fact that the accused did not attempt to feign limitations in his ability to understand or participate in the legal process.

[21] Coetzee’s opinion is that the accused does not currently suffer from any clinical psychiatric disorders and that at the time of the incident he did not suffer from any clinical psychiatric disorder. Coetzee’s opinion is that the accused shows antisocial and narcissistic personality traits. Coetzee is also of the opinion that the accused is currently malingering some psychiatric symptoms, specifically those in the psychotic disorder spectrum.

[22] Coetzee’s conclusion is that the accused is capable of understanding the court proceedings and can meaningfully contribute to his own defence, and that at the time of the commission of the offence, the accused was able to distinguish between right and wrong and was able to act in accordance with such understanding.

[23] Dr K Naidu, a State Psychiatrist and Dr PH De Wet, a Psychiatrist appointed by the Court, are both duly registered psychiatrists who compiled a joint report regarding the mental condition of the accused, which was handed in by agreement between the parties.

[24] Their examination consisted of clinical interviews with the accused and observation of his general behaviour in the ward. He was physically examined. A summary of court proceedings was made available to them, a psychosocial report was complied and he was psychologically evaluated.

[25] The two Psychiatrists found no psychiatric diagnosis. The diagnosis they found was malingering. They both noted his previous medical and psychiatric history.

[26] Their opinion is that the accused is capable of understanding court proceedings and is able to contribute meaningfully to his defence.

[27] Their opinion is also that at the time of the alleged offences, the accused did not suffer from a mental disorder or mental defect that affected his ability to distinguish between the rightful or wrongful nature of his deeds. A mental disorder or mental defect did not affect his ability to act in accordance with the said appreciation of the rightful or wrongful nature of his deeds.

[32] The court accepts the opinion of Coetzee, and finds that the accused has anti-social and narcissistic personality traits.

[54] The court also takes into account that the accused has an antisocial personality disorder and a narcissistic personality disorder. The evidence of Coetzee is that these disorders may be genetically transferred, but can also be acquired from the systems under which one grows up or from the society from which one emerges.

The court is inclined to find that the accused’s antisocial personality disorder and narcissistic personality disorder were nurtured and developed by the family from which he emerges.

In my view, the presence of the accused within the environment of his family constitutes a danger to society, unless and until there are programmes for interventions. As things stand, the accused is a danger to society.

http://www.saflii.org/za/cases/ZAGPPHC/2014/169.html

Thank you for this post Estelle. Very helpful and it outlines the thoroughness of this type of inpatient clinical assessment IMO.
 
"Imaginary fight"? A neighbour heard it so I'm not sure how it is imaginary.

"Somehow before he shot her she was screaming ". What do you mean" somehow "? Why would she not be able to scream? Again, this wasn't dreamed up by the prosecution, it as heard by many neighbours who have no vested interest in this at all.

Can you explain why there was other damage such as the smashed in plate on the bathtub, broken bedroom door, ipads thrown about on the floor out of their cases etc?

I've been on the receiving end of a crazy boyfriend in a rage, and that's exactly the damage left in the wake of one of his rampages.

I also ended up locked in the toilet with him smashing on the door to get at my while I screamed for my life.

How you can look at all the evidence and say "it doesn't make sense" is astounding. It's OP's story that does not make sense.


I agree that OP's story does not make sense either. And that's why I find this trial so frustrating - I don't completely accept either the state or defense case
 
It's that time again...

tick-tock.jpg


Trial Discussion Thread #39 - 14.05.14 Day 32 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
 
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