Trial Discussion weekend Thread #18

Status
Not open for further replies.
Such a shame Botha is getting to testify 1st. Surely just so Oscar can match his testimony and evidence. A fresher, secure template to work from.

Accused is MEANT to go 1st in SA law. Grrr.

People will then have Botha's testimony uppermost in their minds. And with Oscar's obvs responses/answers matching that, they're hoping he'll definitely appear innocent :p

Well, hopefully it will remind him again of the gravity of what he has done as I think, during this week off, he's just been practising screaming like a woman and sitting around in cafe/restaurants laughing and joking with some of his 'team' .. might knock the reality back into him, and hopefully having to sit there listening to all the horrific injuries again will unnerve him for when he comes to testify.
 
No. Actually I recall Baba saying he was at the door when a lady opened it (must be Audice lol) and Johan Stander ran/pushed past him to get in. And Clarice only talks about her and Oscar NOT her dad, being there.


Hmm .. so Clarice was first on the scene then? Hmmm ...
 
So OP called the Standers at 3:19 and they walked through OP's front door at 3:20? Wow. That's very, very fast.
 
I don't recall .. from the cellphone records .. OP having called her separately. I was only aware that he had called Stander. Need to check back on those .. but will have to do it tomoz as I can't keep my eyes open, lol!
 
Hmm .. so Clarice was first on the scene then? Hmmm ...

Baba says "a lady let him in" (from the inside).

I remember during Baba's testimony thinking,"Eh? What lady? It was only Oscar left in the house . . .
 
So OP called the Standers at 3:19 and they walked through OP's front door at 3:20? Wow. That's very, very fast.

That's why I was querying when Baba arrived, as it was about the same time as Stander. Does Baba give a time?
 
It was shortly after 3am on February 14 when Oscar Pistorius called his close female friend and asked her to come to his home immediately. He was frantic. Something had gone horribly wrong. There had been a shooting.


I don't recall .. from the cellphone records .. OP having called her separately. I was only aware that he had called Stander. Need to check back on those .. but will have to do it tomoz as I can't keep my eyes open, lol!

Well I can't see anything here where OP called her, just after 3am :confused: .. he called Stander, but not her .. not directly .. I'm still confused :confused: .. that piece makes it sound like he called her directly (on her own cellphone, not via Standers phone)

ebruary 14

01:48:48 – GPRS – 309 seconds – tower closest to Oscar’s (the remaining are all on the same tower as well)

03:18:45 – GPRS – 75 seconds

03:19:03 – Outgoing call to 2251 (Johan Stander) – 24 seconds

03:20:02 – GPRS – 79 seconds

03:20:05 – Outgoing call to 082911 (ambulance service) – 66 seconds

03:21:22 – GPRS – 61 seconds

03:21:33 – Outgoing call to 6797 (Baba, security) – 9 seconds

03:21:47 – Outgoing call to 121 (voicemail) – 7 seconds

03:22:05 – Incoming call from 6797 (Baba, security)

03:55:02 – Outgoing call to 8888 (Justin Devaris) – 123 seconds
 
Baba says "a lady let him in" (from the inside).

I remember during Baba's testimony thinking,"Eh? What lady? It was only Oscar left in the house . . .

Yes, I remember that too .. and thinking exactly the same thing ..
 
That's why I was querying when Baba arrived, as it was about the same time as Stander. Does Baba give a time?

IIRC, Baba said he called from within his vehicle outside of OP's house. Then Stander and daughter arrived and ran up the front door. Baba and two other guards ran after them. The daughter opened the door and went inside. The father stood in the doorway. Baba did not enter OP's home.
 
.. so was she there even earlier than that, I wonder ..?
 
Yes, I remember that too .. and thinking exactly the same thing ..

I'm just wondering if we are getting confused with Dr Stipp's testimony .. everything I've googled says that Stander arrived with his daughter. I got the impression she was there before anyone else .. oh well, looks like I'm deffo barking up the wrong tree on that one then!
 
It was shortly after 3am on February 14 when Oscar Pistorius called his close female friend and asked her to come to his home immediately. He was frantic. Something had gone horribly wrong. There had been a shooting.

Also a resident of the upmarket SilverWoods housing estate, where she lives with her parents, the 20-something dressed and made her way there as quickly as she could. As she opened the front door of number 286, at exactly 3.20am on Valentine's morning, she saw Pistorius carry his girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp down the stairs, her body drenched in blood.

Pistorius placed his girlfriend's body on the floor and between him and the woman (who cannot be named for legal reasons) they tried to stop the profuse bleeding. But they couldn't.

The woman, a lawyer, and Pistorius did everything they could. But by then the 29- year-old was pumping blood and her slender body was limp as all life continued to drain from it. When the paramedics arrived a short while later, Pistorius and the woman stepped aside. Steenkamp was pronounced dead shortly after that.

The woman then asked her father to call for an ambulance. It is not clear if the neighbours, who alerted the security guards and police to the gunshots they heard just after 3am, had also called for an ambulance to come.

Pistorius was in a state of delirium, panic and shock as the woman tried to console him. It was all a mistake, he continued to tell her. He hadn't meant to do it. He thought Steenkamp was an intruder. That's why he shot her. He was crying. He was shaking. He was beyond consolation.

The police arrived. Steenkamp was dead. Pistorius's life was about to change forever. And number 286, until then the plush home of the well-loved and world-famous double-amputee athlete, was turned into a crime scene.

What is recounted above is what the woman relayed to the police on the morning of February 14 in a sworn statement. She joined the line-up of witnesses, along with neighbours who live next to and near number 286, members of the security company that operate SilverWoods gated housing estate and the paramedics who attended to Steenkamp at Pistorius's home.

Unlike the others, perhaps, the woman who was first on the scene is on Pistorius's side and appears to believe him. And, for now, she is the star witness for the defence.

The neighbours have already recounted to the police their recollection of the shouting and screaming they heard coming from 286 on February 13 and in the early hours of the 14th, which, on a first reading, makes a mockery of the blade-runner's claims that he mistook his girlfriend for an intruder and shot her in a tragic case of self-defence.

The security guards who were called to the house on the evening of the 13th to tell the occupant and his guest that neighbours were concerned about the commotion that was going on inside will also weaken Pistorius's claims that he shot Steenkamp by mistake in the middle of the night when he thought someone was trying to enter his fortified house.

Furthermore, the security company that controls SilverWoods has already given the police the CCTV footage that captured Steenkamp's time of arrival. She drove through the heavily guarded gates of SilverWoods on February 13 and not in the early hours of the 14th. Her remains were removed a day later.

Is there more to the Pistorius-Steenkamp tragedy than has met the public eye so far?

Apparently not. It has been noted from records and from statements taken from her family that the witness was awoken in the night by a call from Pistorius in what has turned out to be a desperate plea for help.

The only occupants of 286 throughout the night of the 13th and until the woman's arrival at 3.20am on the 14th were Oscar Pistorius and Reeva Steenkamp.

The state has charged him with premeditated murder, a charge that he has denied, in the strongest possible terms, in a statement he made via his family (and, oddly, not through his legal team) shortly after the court adjourned on Friday afternoon.

The state appears confident and seems to be sitting on strong evidence: a dead body; the weapon; the man who fired the shots; the neighbours; the security company; the CCTV footage.

There is a twist, however.


Her body took four bullets – some if not all of them through the bathroom door. He says he reached for his pistol and before firing the first shot, shouted out to the "intruder" that he was about to shoot. If that is the case, would Steenkamp not have shouted back words to the effect: "It's OK. It's just me, Reeva. I got up to use the bathroom."Perhaps she didn't hear him make the warning call.

Even still, surely she would have screamed out after the first shot was fired, appealing to him to stop, assuring him she wasn't the intruding threat he thought she may have been.

Or perhaps it did not happen like that at all. Perhaps it was a lovers' quarrel in the middle of the night that went horribly wrong.

The woman who arrived on the scene summoned by the phone call does not believe so. Apparently, she is very much on his side.

"Psychologists know the consequences of parental failure to mirror the infant's innermost experience of reality. The result is a creation of the narcissistic self, with it's fragile fake belief in self that hides utter worthlessness and vulnerability underneath.

The narcissistic self lacks empathy and takes abnormal risks. There is the crazy Pistorius we all heard about in the first week of the trial: the gun and speed freak; quick to anger, the plaster-over-the-creaks charm and his loyal band of unquestioning friends ready to take the rap when he fires a gun under the table of a crowded restaurant. There is a level of unreality about him: according to Dr Stipp, his neighbour and witness in the trial, the wife [and mother of Clarice, also at crime scene] of Johan Stander (the security manager, at the estate Oscar lived and first person Pistorius summoned to the scene), standing metres from Reeva's body remarked: "I hope this doesn't get out to the papers"."

http://www.timeslive.co.za/ilive/20...-and-psychology-of-poor-oscar-pistorius-ilive

Of all the strange moments that the wife of security manager Johan Stander, and mother of 'Chief Defense Withess' lawyer Clarice Stander, first thought was to hope the public would not find out good friend's Oscar dead bloody woman, is so morally warped it's jawdropping.
 
IIRC, Baba said he called from within his vehicle outside of OP's house. Then Stander and daughter arrived and ran up the front door. Baba and two other guards ran after them. The daughter opened the door and went inside. The father stood in the doorway. Baba did not enter OP's home.

Baba called from his vehicle? Is it possible that the first call OP made to security went to the house and that's why Baba was certain he was the first to call OP? Or were the calls going to Baba directly?
 
"Psychologists know the consequences of parental failure to mirror the infant's innermost experience of reality. The result is a creation of the narcissistic self, with it's fragile fake belief in self that hides utter worthlessness and vulnerability underneath.

The narcissistic self lacks empathy and takes abnormal risks. There is the crazy Pistorius we all heard about in the first week of the trial: the gun and speed freak; quick to anger, the plaster-over-the-creaks charm and his loyal band of unquestioning friends ready to take the rap when he fires a gun under the table of a crowded restaurant. There is a level of unreality about him: according to Dr Stipp, his neighbour and witness in the trial, the wife [incorrect, it was daughter] of Johan Stander (the security manager, at the estate Oscar lived and first person Pistorius summoned to the scene), standing metres from Reeva's body remarked: "I hope this doesn't get out to the papers"."

http://www.timeslive.co.za/ilive/20...-and-psychology-of-poor-oscar-pistorius-ilive

Of all the strange moments, that Chief Defense Witness, lawyer Clarice Stander, first thought was to hope the public would not find out good friend's Oscar dead bloody woman, is so morally warped it's jawdropping.

It is a strangely insensitive thing to say at that moment.
 
Baba called from his vehicle? Is it possible that the first call OP made to security went to the house and that's why Baba was certain he was the first to call OP? Or were the calls going to Baba directly?

Both were to security mobile phone - directly to Baba
 
Such a shame Botha is getting to testify 1st. Surely just so Oscar can match his testimony and evidence. A fresher, secure template to work from.

Accused is MEANT to go 1st in SA law. Grrr.

People will then have Botha's testimony uppermost in their minds. And with Oscar's obvs responses/answers matching that, they're hoping he'll definitely appear innocent :p

'Bob Hope and No Hope ' is as good as they'll get !
 
"Psychologists know the consequences of parental failure to mirror the infant's innermost experience of reality. The result is a creation of the narcissistic self, with it's fragile fake belief in self that hides utter worthlessness and vulnerability underneath.

The narcissistic self lacks empathy and takes abnormal risks. There is the crazy Pistorius we all heard about in the first week of the trial: the gun and speed freak; quick to anger, the plaster-over-the-creaks charm and his loyal band of unquestioning friends ready to take the rap when he fires a gun under the table of a crowded restaurant. There is a level of unreality about him: according to Dr Stipp, his neighbour and witness in the trial, the wife [incorrect, it was daughter] of Johan Stander (the security manager, at the estate Oscar lived and first person Pistorius summoned to the scene), standing metres from Reeva's body remarked: "I hope this doesn't get out to the papers"."

http://www.timeslive.co.za/ilive/20...-and-psychology-of-poor-oscar-pistorius-ilive

Of all the strange moments, that Chief Defense Witness, lawyer Clarice Stander, first thought was to hope the public would not find out good friend's Oscar dead bloody woman, is so morally warped it's jawdropping.

I believe Stipp said Mr. Stander's wife arrived later and it was she who made the comment about hoping the news wouldn't get out. It's my understanding that Stander and daughter arrived together and Stander's wife arrived a bit later, during the time Stipp was there.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
86
Guests online
3,107
Total visitors
3,193

Forum statistics

Threads
592,289
Messages
17,966,739
Members
228,735
Latest member
dil2288
Back
Top