Trial Discussion weekend Thread #24

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And since Oscar was a well loved national hero, I believe he would get of with culpable homicide and suspended sentence, but I may be wrong of course, it's just my opinion :)...

edited by me for brevity....


The Govt of the Republic of South Africa has pursued 'heroes' immensely larger than Oscar for criminal activity... even larger sports 'heroes' than Oscar..

Members of Parliament, International business men, the successful revered and adored Captain of the South African Cricket Team... many many more..

Indicted them, put them on trial, convicted them and imprisoned them. one is still there, in solitary confinement at 74 years of age.. just down the road from Oscars home, oddly enough....
 
BBM

No. He says definitely (as only Oscar can do) that she DID NOT scream. Never mind that he's been deafened by firing his precious gun. He says she DID NOT scream.

And I don't think he will try. He will have to rely on his word. There is no way he CAN recreate Reeva's scream of terror.. any attempt would seal his fate.

His Barrister has promised to the court that he will table in evidence a demonstration of Oscar doing exactly this. This promise has been used by his defence counsel in rebuttal of previous witnesses..

its not a matter of choice..
 
Nel has edged Oscar up to the point where he is firing in the bathroom.... the Screaming Woman has been introduced to Oscar, and to no ones surprise, Oscar has stated he didn't hear her..

Its now coming up to the time where Oscar has to demonstrate to the courts satisfaction that it was indeed he, and not Reeva who did some of the screaming heard that night.. to lay to rest whether the witnesses heard , as they testified , a woman screaming with the descriptors of 'blood curdling' ' terrified, terrified', 'painfilled','frightened, fearful'...

His defence relies categorically on this fact.. its been presented as the defence to the entire argument.. that Oscar, and only Oscar uttered each and every sound, scream, cry, call, wail, shout, yell, and argumentary sound .

At this point in Oscars story, ( he is firing thru the door ) the last word Reeva ever spoke , the last sound she uttered on this earth, was, and its a late entry into the race, ' can't you sleep, baba'.... he now remembers this a year on. ..and this is now at least some 150 or 200 seconds ago....

He's bought the fans in, adjusted the curtains, thrown the jeans over the led light, heard the 'sound', grabbed his gun, whispered to Reeva, shouted to the intruder, shouted to Reeva, got himself on wobbly and unstable surfaces to the bathroom, fired the gun..

Now he has to replicate the same sounds the witnesses testified to , right here, at this point.. never mind the argumentative sounds mrs VD Merwe heard 40 minutes or so previously. its right here, at this precise point in time, where Oscar has to replicate screams of himself, and screams of Reeva, and also, mingled screams of both him and Reeva..

any takers he can do it??

Nel is going to walk him through the events, step by step, get him to focus on how he side-stepped the duvet, opened the door, played with the jeans, whatever, and OP is going to describe all that and not work the screams into the story.
 
Just rewatching some of it now and never really noticed before how much he inserts into his testimony "I was trying to protect Reeva - and myself". It's the only time he seems to have put her first in all of this.
 
Perhaps those 3:00am visits to the house with his lawyers were practice sessions? I found it to be quite interesting that the one woman who testified (the doctor's wife?) said she heard those screams from when they were "recreating" them. When asked if she had contacted anyone about these screams she said no she had not. Apparently one time of reporting screams in the night was enough for her!
 
in the particular cases you cite.. 2 pleaded guilty, and threw themselves on the mercy of the court, on the other, the man and the daughter, no prosecution was pursued due to so many mitigating circumstances..

Oscar has pleaded Not Guilty. which changes the parameters unequivocally.

I am waiting for Carol70 to tell me what she thinks :D

I put it to you Baba would walk free (in the scenario of a real intruder), and the whole SA would console him... (while Nel would have to hire a bunch of bodyguards :D)

It's Oscar, guys! Even now, in this scenario, there are still many people in SA convinced he is innocent and fiercely defending him. And there is a whole cult of female admirers...
 
So many problems with OS's version(s):
1. no good reason for not backing out the bedroom w/Reeva with his gun drawn;
2. no real explanation for shooting (he thought he heard a noise but did not intend to shoot???) or why he stopped shooting and withdrew to bedroom;
3. implausible that he would take time to disable alarm (or bash double bedroom door) before carrying Reeva downstairs....
Does anyone have a link to photos of blood over the bed or blood on the duvet? TIA

MOO.
 
Nel has edged Oscar up to the point where he is firing in the bathroom.... the Screaming Woman has been introduced to Oscar, and to no ones surprise, Oscar has stated he didn't hear her..

Its now coming up to the time where Oscar has to demonstrate to the courts satisfaction that it was indeed he, and not Reeva who did some of the screaming heard that night.. to lay to rest whether the witnesses heard , as they testified , a woman screaming with the descriptors of 'blood curdling' ' terrified, terrified', 'painfilled','frightened, fearful'...

His defence relies categorically on this fact.. its been presented as the defence to the entire argument.. that Oscar, and only Oscar uttered each and every sound, scream, cry, call, wail, shout, yell, and argumentary sound .

At this point in Oscars story, ( he is firing thru the door ) the last word Reeva ever spoke , the last sound she uttered on this earth, was, and its a late entry into the race, ' can't you sleep, baba'.... he now remembers this a year on. ..and this is now at least some 150 or 200 seconds ago....

He's bought the fans in, adjusted the curtains, thrown the jeans over the led light, heard the 'sound', grabbed his gun, whispered to Reeva, shouted to the intruder, shouted to Reeva, got himself on wobbly and unstable surfaces to the bathroom, fired the gun..

Now he has to replicate the same sounds the witnesses testified to , right here, at this point.. never mind the argumentative sounds mrs VD Merwe heard 40 minutes or so previously. its right here, at this precise point in time, where Oscar has to replicate screams of himself, and screams of Reeva, and also, mingled screams of both him and Reeva..

any takers he can do it??

You cannot squeeze straight answer from this guy, he is evasive, wiggles, squirms, talks in circles, does not admit to anything - guns shooting on their own, everybody else is wrong, lying, trying to frame him etc. etc. And if he ends up in the corner he gets emotional, sick, tired, ....... Maybe he will surprise everybody and will scream like an opera singer :banghead:

More and more I listen to him the less he is believable. IMOO
 
Why do you believe that a national hero will certainly get special treatment from the court? The SA courts have convicted much more powerful and influential men. OP is just a man. A SA man. He had a gun and he murdered his girlfriend, that is not particularly special.

It's just a feeling I have. That he will not get 25 years. But we'll see if I was right :)

If it wasn't in a bad taste, I would challenge you to have a bet with me :D
 
It's such a pity the duvet/jeans photos are ambiguous and possibly tainted as Nel just might have had a "gotcha" moment.
 
Just rewatching some of it now and never really noticed before how much he inserts into his testimony "I was trying to protect Reeva - and myself". It's the only time he seems to have put her first in all of this.

Because he learned it by heart. That sentence. It's not really his.
 
Which is mind boggling. Why turn off the alarm? Why not run downstairs and let it go off, so it would bring some more help to him?

Exactly! This also may be where Nel is heading with the alarm situation.
 
Just feel sorry for all the SA people who admired OP for all these years. Must be hard for them to change their views of a hero despite the fact that he is clearly lying in court. Sort of like Lance Armstrong. Many people still don't know how to come to terms with it.
 
His Barrister has promised to the court that he will table in evidence a demonstration of Oscar doing exactly this. This promise has been used by his defence counsel in rebuttal of previous witnesses..

its not a matter of choice..

I'm not sure to what you are referring.. I was trying to say how he never mentioned in his Affidavit that Reeva was awake and that she had spoken to him...

Or am I too tired to follow? It's half past 5 in the morning over here :)
 
I am waiting for Carol70 to tell me what she thinks :D

I put it to you Baba would walk free, and the whole SA would console him... (while Nel would have to hire a bunch of bodyguards :D)

It's Oscar, guys! Even now, in this scenario, there are still many people in SA convinced he is innocent and fiercely defending him. And there is a whole cult of female admirers...

Go back to the previous thread (very near the end) and read Carol70 detailing that 90% of SA despises OP, believes that he is a murderer. That national hero stuff only gets you just so far...
 
I'm not sure to what you are referring.. I was trying to say how he never mentioned in his Affidavit that Reeva was awake and that she had spoken to him...

Or am I too tired to follow? It's half past 5 in the morning over here :)

haha.. being tired is no excuse.. Oscar has been using that one all thru the trial.

I was responding to another poster, re Roux and Oscars definitive statement, that a demonstration of Oscars capacity to scream exactly like Reeva in terror and also, exactly like himself and Reeva at the same time mingled with gunshots in rebuttal of witnesses who testified to this .

Its been tabled as evidence, and as such, must be produced , by Roux and Oscar...
 
It's just a feeling I have. That he will not get 25 years. But we'll see if I was right :)

If it wasn't in a bad taste, I would challenge you to have a bet with me :D

Bet on. What is your wager?
 
Which is mind boggling. Why turn off the alarm? Why not run downstairs and let it go off, so it would bring some more help to him?

Imo, for the same reason he called Stander in the first place, to conceal the crime.
 
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