TRIAL OF CHAD DAYBELL CHARGED WITH MURDER OF JJ VALLOW, TYLEE RYAN AND TAMMY DAYBELL #6

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No, I dont think LE was looking at overall picture yet and were not suspicious at that time

CV murdered in July 2019 -but LE thought it was self defense-- no suspicion

Tammy was killed In Oct 2019- cremated-nothing suspicious at that time per LE

JJ and Tylee were not Reported / investigated as missing until Nov 2019

Alex died Dec 11 2019

CD & LVD found in Hawaii in Jan 2020

I really don't think LE would have been looking too deep into AxC death when he died..
They did NOT test for any unusual drugs, etc in the toxicology testing as they would not have a reason to AT THAT TIME.

I do believe ZP asked about being a suspect exactly because she was privy to all the info -- which to me, IMO, makes her compliant as well.

Which is why she sought Immunity. JMO
Ok I think he committed suicide but…LE were in the room with the ME during Alex’s autopsy. They did think it was suspicious and said ME did a thorough job.
So I will defend them on that.

Still, I do believe Alex found a way to commit suicide and the pulmonary embolisms were gonna take him out anyway.
 
excellent recap of LE's incident report regarding AC. unfortunately, the report was redacted. always wondered about all of the pieces of evidence they collected, all redacted. Z obtained immunity to testify. no one knows why.

trip to mexico...her reason: prescriptions for her AND AC. he did not take any prescription medication and none were found in his toxicology. except narcan. some guess administered by first responders.....however, no info if they did administer especially since Z was giving CPR when they arrived and she would be able to answer questions about drug use. vomiting and losing bowels and unresponsive can be anything...if responders were administering to him they would be asking her questions about his health and drugs so why administer it? IMO
She wasn’t home. I thought her son called her and she came home. A little late for COR. Her son called 911 and he told police Alex was just her boyfriend. You would think the son would know.
 
It could have been ANYTHING. Yep.
But….
Whatever it was, it takes mere seconds to delete from a device. But, anyone who knows about storage of digital data knows that deletion from one device is not certain elimination of that data record.

Given the very long time that passed between TD’s death and the call to 911 and the discrepancies in Garth’s accounting of some of those hours - discrepancies which seem designed to serve Chad’s defense - it seems reasonable to question whether destruction of and/or tampering with evidence was occurring.

Garth should have his own attorney, and not just for his grand jury appearance.
 
I checked some of her dates, all in 2021 (dates for EIN articles):

May 21: Lori is declared indigent
May 25: Murder charges drop for her and Chad
May 27: Lori is declared incompetent

I's likely that Chad's money stopped funding her defense even earlier. I can imagine her commissary money also stopping. She was transferred to a state hospital for several months. But her defense could have been prepaid to some extent and someone else could have contributed towards it. It likely wasn't her or Chad's family. The Daybell children went on 48 Hours a whole year later (in July 2022), claiming that dad had been framed. By that point Lori would have been on her own for a while. How did she keep up her spirit?
I’ve always been a bit puzzled how she was declared indigent in 2021 when her husband had all that life insurance money and he wasn’t at the same time.

But I think the 48 Hours Episode “The Secrets of Chad Daybell’s Backyard” actually first aired in Sept 2021 not July 2022 - that may have been a re-airing date or something - see the link below - and if it’s wrong please let me know as I’ve been referring to 2021 for it for a while now. So a little over a year after the remains of Tylee & JJ were found and CD was arrested his children were defending him and accusing her.

But at the time (2021 & 2022) CD & LVD were still going to be tried together and in early 2023 (maybe January) they even requested that they be allowed to meet together with their attorneys for a strategy meeting. The request was denied and a couple of months later the trials were severed when LVD insisted on her right to a speedy trial and CD waived his when the thing about discovery came up and more time was required. Still an odd strategy on JP’s part not to push for the speedy trial and get the death penalty taken off the table for his client too. One has to wonder if he really thought he could win this case and if so, when did he realize he couldn’t or does he really think that they still have a chance.

My best guess is that there was some level of cooperation at least until the trials were severed which I think was maybe Feb or March of 2023! Does that mean EDM kept putting money on LVD’s commissary account after the 48 hours interview in 2021 where she accused LVD & AC of framing her dad? Doesn’t sound likely…but…it could have been a strategic advantage for CD to stay in LVD’s favor through her trial and I’m sure if CD told EDM to continue to put money on her account that she did it. Otherwise I’m sure that Janice Cox took that over whenever the Daybells stopped.

I’m also reasonably sure that when LVD was transferred to AZ and asked if her husband would face charges there too that she was still convinced that they were still in this together. Has that changed since JP started blaming her for everything during CD’s trial? I don’t know. Most people would have seen the writing on the wall long ago but LVD isn’t most people. She’s been living in a fantasy world of her own delusions for years - in my opinion likely most of her life but it was definitely escalated in 2017 when the book “Visions of Glory” came out with an anniversary edition and that led her into the delusional world of CD & his NDEs and seeing beyond the veil nonsense. I wouldn’t be surprised if she thinks JP threw her under the bus all on his own & CD is still madly in love with her and meeting her via portals every night.

 
I’ve always been a bit puzzled how she was declared indigent in 2021 when her husband had all that life insurance money and he wasn’t at the same time.

But I think the 48 Hours Episode “The Secrets of Chad Daybell’s Backyard” actually first aired in Sept 2021 not July 2022 - that may have been a re-airing date or something - see the link below - and if it’s wrong please let me know as I’ve been referring to 2021 for it for a while now. So a little over a year after the remains of Tylee & JJ were found and CD was arrested his children were defending him and accusing her.

But at the time (2021 & 2022) CD & LVD were still going to be tried together and in early 2023 (maybe January) they even requested that they be allowed to meet together with their attorneys for a strategy meeting. The request was denied and a couple of months later the trials were severed when LVD insisted on her right to a speedy trial and CD waived his when the thing about discovery came up and more time was required. Still an odd strategy on JP’s part not to push for the speedy trial and get the death penalty taken off the table for his client too. One has to wonder if he really thought he could win this case and if so, when did he realize he couldn’t or does he really think that they still have a chance.

My best guess is that there was some level of cooperation at least until the trials were severed which I think was maybe Feb or March of 2023! Does that mean EDM kept putting money on LVD’s commissary account after the 48 hours interview in 2021 where she accused LVD & AC of framing her dad? Doesn’t sound likely…but…it could have been a strategic advantage for CD to stay in LVD’s favor through her trial and I’m sure if CD told EDM to continue to put money on her account that she did it. Otherwise I’m sure that Janice Cox took that over whenever the Daybells stopped.

I’m also reasonably sure that when LVD was transferred to AZ and asked if her husband would face charges there too that she was still convinced that they were still in this together. Has that changed since JP started blaming her for everything during CD’s trial? I don’t know. Most people would have seen the writing on the wall long ago but LVD isn’t most people. She’s been living in a fantasy world of her own delusions for years - in my opinion likely most of her life but it was definitely escalated in 2017 when the book “Visions of Glory” came out with an anniversary edition and that led her into the delusional world of CD & his NDEs and seeing beyond the veil nonsense. I wouldn’t be surprised if she thinks JP threw her under the bus all on his own & CD is still madly in love with her and meeting her via portals every night.

I would not be surprised if Chad isn’t charged as a conspirator in Charles murder after this trial has ended. The AZ LE know much more now.

I also think Chad may still be crazy about Lori but doesn’t want his children to know.

And one thing still is a head scratcher to me. Charles is dead and Lori married Chad. WHY is she not called Lori Daybell? Her marriage to Chad was legal right? Or maybe when you kill one husband, you aren’t legally free to marry another? No one has ever answered that.
 
There is a Facebook conversation that is posted on unapproved sources. So this thought is MOOing like a herd of cows.

I saw a conversation that is in screen shots and I didn't detect the dates. Maybe someone knows them, but I never tried to see initial screenshots and dates. It is a conversation with Daybell daughter Leah and ann unknown friend. It was before the kids were found but after Lori was refusing to follow an order to produce them.

In the convo Leah says she can't explain why the kids are not produced, but says it is per lawyer advice do there must be a good reason. She also explains that part of the reason there is so much heat is because of coincidences that arose suspicion. One of the coincidences she mentioned was Alex dying of (per her in this exchange) an asthma attack.

I found it an indication that some investigators somewhere were saying, "Help me out...this is quite a string of bad luck..." and mentioning in the list of strange things Alex dying. Because, it was one of the things she explained, right up there with her mother's recently upping the life insurance.

Leah comes off as the child most able to emote. Or maybe I mean, as the child with her humanity in tact; she doesn't come off robotic. Even in those texts defending her father and step mother.

Garth, even though I believe he lied and may have allowed himself to be pressured to help cover a murder and commit perjury, also seems to have humanity not hidden far below.

But my point I wandered from was not the level of indoctrination of the kids. My point was Alex.

It does appear that Leah was at least questioned about Alex' death.

MOO
Thanks for sharing that about Leah. I have often thought that she might have a bit clearer perspective than the others because she does not live in Rexburg and was away from CD’s direct influence and perhaps her husband and his family have been able to help her see things more realistically. I hope so.

Regarding her being questioned after Alex’s death… With CD & LVD in Hawaii & known not to have Tylee & JJ with them but having told everyone they were safe in hiding, my guess is that LE reached out to Leah to see if CD & LVD had stashed the kids with her & her husband in UT. They knew better but were just leaving no stones unturned but were also going to ask about anything she knew which would have been very little.

I know on the 48 hrs interview she was defending CD with her siblings but my guess is that of all the Daybell siblings she is the most likely one to see the truth now. She’s also the one in the best position to heal as she has more influence from her in-laws at this point than she does from CD. And while I’d love to hear what she has to say now, they have probably cautioned her about doing anymore interviews and good for them if they have. My curiosity pales in the face of her having a chance to heal away from the Daybells & without being quite so easily identified with the Daybell name or Rexburg.
 
Just wanted to point out that Tammy was NOT cremated. She was buried in Springville, Utah on Oct 22, 2019 and her body was exhumed Dec 12, 2019 for an autopsy.

Not trying to be the police or anything, but this is the 2nd or 3rd time I have read that Tammy was cremated and I just don't want that misrepresentation to get repeated over and over.

Thanks!
Thank you-- I did know that she was buried and not cremated

Apparently, I type and post before thinking LOL :oops:

Thank you for the correction :)
 
I know that this doesn't have anything to do with the murders. But I am still puzzled by the marriage of Zulema and AC. Was that arranged by CD? I wish we knew more about that relationship. It seemed incongruous to me. They go married in Las Vegas.
I think…I don’t know….that Chad arranged that marriage and Melaniecr’s marriage to Ian.
By Zulema’s own admission, their wedding night was not filled with making love. Why go to Walmart and buy a large tarp before you even consummate the marriage? His excuse was not to get the bed greasy when he gave her a massage. Then he stayed on the phone and watched TV the next day. And let’s not forget, when they married he took her name. When he died he was not Alex Cox but Alex Pastenes. I would be filing for annulment. Then Zulema moves him into her apartment with her son and tells her son he is a boyfriend. Of course the son bought that story because Alex was her 6th husband!
 
No, I dont think LE was looking at overall picture yet and were not suspicious at that time

CV murdered in July 2019 -but LE thought it was self defense-- no suspicion

Tammy was killed In Oct 2019- cremated-nothing suspicious at that time per LE

JJ and Tylee were not Reported / investigated as missing until Nov 2019

Alex died Dec 11 2019

CD & LVD found in Hawaii in Jan 2020

I really don't think LE would have been looking too deep into AxC death when he died..
They did NOT test for any unusual drugs, etc in the toxicology testing as they would not have a reason to AT THAT TIME.

I do believe ZP asked about being a suspect exactly because she was privy to all the info -- which to me, IMO, makes her compliant as well.

Which is why she sought Immunity. JMO
I think this trial is making it seem more like Alex Cox was not a natural death. The prosecution is implying this. Also. who can forget that Zulema herself asked LE if she's a suspect in his death!?!

But...the autopsy doesn't lie.

I think emergency response spent hours more than average trying to talk his heart into beating. I recall that LE was just having a multi-agency meeting regarding Charles' shooting. I believe they already strongly suspected the children were dead, having had them under surveillance and knowing the children were not with Lori. In addition, I noted that Heather Daybell stated that Alex's death brought some relief- I don't remember her exact words. She said something to the effect that they more or less knew even back then that he was the one Heather had to worry about. Heather wouldn't have known that if LE wasn't already focused on investigating Alex as a "contractor," to use Chad and Lori's term.

I think Alex's autopsy was thorough. I think the authorities immediately suspected foul play. Authorities immediately secured the home and sought a search warrant. I'm sure they still have tissue and fluids stored in case a new toxicological test comes to mind in further investigation. But IMO, even if there were the intention by anybody to hasten Alex's death, Mother Nature stepped in and killed him herself.

MOO
 
I’ve always been a bit puzzled how she was declared indigent in 2021 when her husband had all that life insurance money and he wasn’t at the same time.

But I think the 48 Hours Episode “The Secrets of Chad Daybell’s Backyard” actually first aired in Sept 2021 not July 2022 - that may have been a re-airing date or something - see the link below - and if it’s wrong please let me know as I’ve been referring to 2021 for it for a while now. So a little over a year after the remains of Tylee & JJ were found and CD was arrested his children were defending him and accusing her.

But at the time (2021 & 2022) CD & LVD were still going to be tried together and in early 2023 (maybe January) they even requested that they be allowed to meet together with their attorneys for a strategy meeting. The request was denied and a couple of months later the trials were severed when LVD insisted on her right to a speedy trial and CD waived his when the thing about discovery came up and more time was required. Still an odd strategy on JP’s part not to push for the speedy trial and get the death penalty taken off the table for his client too. One has to wonder if he really thought he could win this case and if so, when did he realize he couldn’t or does he really think that they still have a chance.

My best guess is that there was some level of cooperation at least until the trials were severed which I think was maybe Feb or March of 2023! Does that mean EDM kept putting money on LVD’s commissary account after the 48 hours interview in 2021 where she accused LVD & AC of framing her dad? Doesn’t sound likely…but…it could have been a strategic advantage for CD to stay in LVD’s favor through her trial and I’m sure if CD told EDM to continue to put money on her account that she did it. Otherwise I’m sure that Janice Cox took that over whenever the Daybells stopped.

I’m also reasonably sure that when LVD was transferred to AZ and asked if her husband would face charges there too that she was still convinced that they were still in this together. Has that changed since JP started blaming her for everything during CD’s trial? I don’t know. Most people would have seen the writing on the wall long ago but LVD isn’t most people. She’s been living in a fantasy world of her own delusions for years - in my opinion likely most of her life but it was definitely escalated in 2017 when the book “Visions of Glory” came out with an anniversary edition and that led her into the delusional world of CD & his NDEs and seeing beyond the veil nonsense. I wouldn’t be surprised if she thinks JP threw her under the bus all on his own & CD is still madly in love with her and meeting her via portals every night.

You're right, the 48 Hours episode with Chad's children first aired in early September 2021. Lori would have been receiving treatment at the hospital at the time. Was she even aware of the accusation that she and Alex framed Chad?
 
Because it was all too convenient for Alex to die, it seems like murder but I can't see how anyone could have given him a pulmonary embolism.
I think it would be challenging to trigger a pulmonary embolism in someone but if someone gave Alex something increased clotting, that might do it. The problem as I understand it, is that many poisons are not tested for in an autopsy unless there is a reason to suspect one in particular.

All MOO
 
.

Yes, we did hear that. And that it was deleted from her phone. I (not being a technical whiz) can't really understand why it can't be retrieved - after all, there have been previous cases where murderers have deleted incriminating things on their phones/computers, and they have been retrieved (the Men end ez brothers?)
Tammy was murdered in mid- October, and her phone was taken in January, IIRC. I don't know what would happen on the device, but I don't think Android would still have it.

As far as the device is concerned, and if a photo was taken with it, we have never heard. We also haven't heard that it wasn't recovered. Just that it was deleted. We were told an image was deleted, but not when it got there.

I am inclined the theorize that Chad deleted the image during or shortly after her murder, but I don't know that. I also now theorize that Tammy was lured while awake to her murder, rather than ambushed while sleeping. She may have heard a noise and tried to photograph an intruder or her husband acting strangely.

MOO
 
I can't for the life of me envision a scenario where these two - CD and LCYLRVD - discover or otherwise stumble upon a toxin or drug that can't be discovered by a modern forensic autopsy. You don't just Walter White your way into a poison bean. I think AC died as natural a death a man in his early 50s could die. The life-style, the diet, and the stress of having realized that you were pawned into committing 4 maybe 5 murders all conspired to put him down. Surely it had some effect on Chad and Lori, tho.

Thinking about when this first started to come to light, Chad was LARPing his own Mormon fan-fiction predicting the Apocalypse, and Covid hits soon after. Some of those early images coming out of Europe sure had that End-of-Days tinge to them. The BLM riots and Jan 6 shenanigans; the Tweedles probably thought they were right on course with their... 'visions.' At some point the two probably thought they had to get Alex gone, and he up and taps out on his own? If they weren't already 100 percent invested, that had to staple them permanently to their delusions.

I'm sure they both still believe their story, that these literal trials and tribulations will end and they'll have the last maniacal laugh. Every morning Lori wakes up, thinking this is the day the trumpets blast and the prison walls crash and El Chaddo can get back to storming her beaches.

It makes you wonder, how far gone are Melanie, Melanie, David, Zulema and whomever else is part of this harem of the absurd? Anybody get any deprogramming of which we are aware? If by some freak Chad gets found innocent, it won't take much of a shove, IMO, to get part or all of this group back on board. From the testimony we've heard, none strike me as being blessed with any critical thinking.
 
Just listening to Lauren from Hidden True Crime talking with Tricia.
It occurred to me that Garth says he found her frozen on the ground. Not the floor. Then Garth called out to his dad who was in the house. Maybe Alex killed her outside. Then Garth and Chad moved her into the house in the bed.
Why would anyone say they found her on the ground? I think Chad talked Garth into saying that so there would be no reason for an autopsy.
 
I would not be surprised if Chad isn’t charged as a conspirator in Charles murder after this trial has ended. The AZ LE know much more now.

I also think Chad may still be crazy about Lori but doesn’t want his children to know.

And one thing still is a head scratcher to me. Charles is dead and Lori married Chad. WHY is she not called Lori Daybell? Her marriage to Chad was legal right? Or maybe when you kill one husband, you aren’t legally free to marry another? No one has ever answered that.

Legally, she can use Daybell or Vallow or Ryan or Cox- whatever she wants as long as she is not using her chosen name nefariously. She has to stick with one name that is attached to her SSN, and document any changing of that name. And certain institutions may insist that she use her SSN name, such as mortgage lenders.

As I understand it, she wants to be called Mrs. Daybell but John Prior insists on calling her Miss Vallow. That is probably part of his strategy to separate her from Chad.

MOO
 
I can't for the life of me envision a scenario where these two - CD and LCYLRVD - discover or otherwise stumble upon a toxin or drug that can't be discovered by a modern forensic autopsy. You don't just Walter White your way into a poison bean. I think AC died as natural a death a man in his early 50s could die. The life-style, the diet, and the stress of having realized that you were pawned into committing 4 maybe 5 murders all conspired to put him down. Surely it had some effect on Chad and Lori, tho.

Thinking about when this first started to come to light, Chad was LARPing his own Mormon fan-fiction predicting the Apocalypse, and Covid hits soon after. Some of those early images coming out of Europe sure had that End-of-Days tinge to them. The BLM riots and Jan 6 shenanigans; the Tweedles probably thought they were right on course with their... 'visions.' At some point the two probably thought they had to get Alex gone, and he up and taps out on his own? If they weren't already 100 percent invested, that had to staple them permanently to their delusions.

I'm sure they both still believe their story, that these literal trials and tribulations will end and they'll have the last maniacal laugh. Every morning Lori wakes up, thinking this is the day the trumpets blast and the prison walls crash and El Chaddo can get back to storming her beaches.

It makes you wonder, how far gone are Melanie, Melanie, David, Zulema and whomever else is part of this harem of the absurd? Anybody get any deprogramming of which we are aware? If by some freak Chad gets found innocent, it won't take much of a shove, IMO, to get part or all of this group back on board. From the testimony we've heard, none strike me as being blessed with any critical thinking.
Agree.

Maybe Alex was the guy they managed to pray to death.

MOO
 
(snipped)

I'm sure they both still believe their story, that these literal trials and tribulations will end and they'll have the last maniacal laugh. Every morning Lori wakes up, thinking this is the day the trumpets blast and the prison walls crash and El Chaddo can get back to storming her beaches.
This has me laughing so loud, I can just see Lori every morning waiting on her savior.
 
Legally, she can use Daybell or Vallow or Ryan or Cox- whatever she wants as long as she is not using her chosen name nefariously. She has to stick with one name that is attached to her SSN, and document any changing of that name. And certain institutions may insist that she use her SSN name, such as mortgage lenders.

As I understand it, she wants to be called Mrs. Daybell but John Prior insists on calling her Miss Vallow. That is probably part of his strategy to separate her from Chad.

MOO
Well I notice the Judge calls her Miss Vallow. But it makes sense that since she was defrauding the US government under the name of Vallow for the two kids, then she should have to stick with that name. She likely never tried to change her name to Daybell for her SSN, seeing as how she was a criminal and had children missing.
 
No, I dont think LE was looking at overall picture yet and were not suspicious at that time

CV murdered in July 2019 -but LE thought it was self defense-- no suspicion

Tammy was killed In Oct 2019- cremated-nothing suspicious at that time per LE

JJ and Tylee were not Reported / investigated as missing until Nov 2019

Alex died Dec 11 2019

CD & LVD found in Hawaii in Jan 2020

I really don't think LE would have been looking too deep into AxC death when he died..
They did NOT test for any unusual drugs, etc in the toxicology testing as they would not have a reason to AT THAT TIME.

I do believe ZP asked about being a suspect exactly because she was privy to all the info -- which to me, IMO, makes her compliant as well.

Which is why she sought Immunity. JMO
But @SteveS said they did suspect murder and did extensive testing to find evidence of it.
 
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