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Tulsa exorcist facing increasing 'demonic activity'; Black Mass Sunday in OKC

Discussion in 'Bizarre and Off-Beat News' started by wfgodot, Sep 15, 2014.

  1. wfgodot

    wfgodot Former Member

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    Much more here in Tulsa World: http://www.tulsaworld.com/homepage1...cle_78b25dd2-0aa6-537e-9062-d1777ce54478.html

    Um....so what ya'll think about this?
     
  2. Ruby

    Ruby New Member

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    If the Civic Center is a government building then a religious event should not take place - state and religion can not mix? (at least that's what I thought)

    To each their own for their belief systems. Personally I am not a Satanic follower, I am a Christian.

    I do believe if there is good, there is evil.

    It's a sad day in America when my niece could not put the birth of Christ as a historical event on her study papers. Even though our calendar years are based on said event.
     
  3. TrackerSam

    TrackerSam New Member

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    Good points. Ignore them and they'll go away.
     
  4. Nova

    Nova Active Member

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    I'm not sure about this, but I believe a community center can be rented by any group. It is government-sponsored events or adorning government buildings with public displays of religious belief that are problematic.

    As for the "birth of Christ", how could your niece locate it when scholars cannot? The best estimates are 4-7 BCE, but if indeed Jesus was an historical person, he was born before the dawn of the Common Era.
     
  5. Nova

    Nova Active Member

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    I think Satan and so-called "satanism" are entirely constructs of Christianity, so why not get everybody involved? But if Jesus was anything like he is portrayed in the Gospels, I'm sure He'd say that hour would be better spent ministering to the needy.
     
  6. Jacie Estes

    Jacie Estes Medical Marijuana Advocate

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  7. Ruby

    Ruby New Member

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    I was not sure about the Civic Center being a government building.

    My niece was not trying to locate the actual date, just that the event took place.

    They don't have the actual date on record, but they do know he was born.
    Jesus was a historical person, and if he wasn't he sure made an impact and changed the course of history.
     
  8. sloane7777

    sloane7777 Well-Known Member

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    Gah BBM: I am not really one for mixing Church with State, but a birth happened and Christ is a famed figure in history, so I dont see noting that on a calendar on her homework is not promoting Christianity!!!!!
    that would tick me off as well!!!!!!!
     
  9. Salem

    Salem Former Member

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    Well I think if folks are going to gather to call out negative energy, other folks should gather to call out positive energy.

    And may more positive energy be released than negative.

    :)

    Salem
     
  10. wfgodot

    wfgodot Former Member

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  11. Laughing

    Laughing Well-Known Member

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    What Salem said! :loveyou:
     
  12. animlzrule

    animlzrule New Member

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    The whole thing gives me a chuckle. To think it's 2014 and this continues to be an issue......:crazy:
     
  13. Nova

    Nova Active Member

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    In fact, there is considerable reason to doubt that Jesus existed as an historical person. We have only one contemporary reference to Jesus (by the Jewish historian, Josephus) and that brief mention is probably an interpolation by a copyist years after the fact.

    The other accounts of Jesus--including the Gospels--ALL date from well after His alleged death. What is particularly odd is that those copious keepers of legal records, the Romans, felt a need to crucify a dangerous radical and yet never mentioned Him in any of their accounts.

    To be fair, nobody can prove Jesus was NOT an actual historical person; it's virtually impossible to prove a negative. But the historical evidence for Jesus is very slight.

    The stories of the Gospels have been repeated so often in Western culture, we all just sort of "feel" like they must represent some sort of historical account. Yet it's at least equally possible that writers in the late first century were creating a mythology to teach their worldview. (There are even some interesting works showing how almost everything about the Jesus story--including the Resurrection--is taken directly from Egyptian mythology.)

    To me, the wisdom of Jesus' message is self-evident and more important than the historical record and whether the accounts are historically accurate.

    (ETA you'll get no argument from me on the historical impact of the Jesus story, be it historical or allegorical.)
     
  14. Ruby

    Ruby New Member

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    Hey Nova :seeya:

    No argument needed - Live and let live - we all have our own belief system. :grouphug:

    My niece is in the fifth grade - she needed to list 15 historical items/events that changed the earth/world.
    Could be natural, a discovery, a person, an event, an invention - she happened to think of Jesus.
    It was a no go with her teacher, it did not count towards her assignment.
    I thought that was sad.

    I like what Salem suggests - may more positive energy be released than negative :loveyou:
     
  15. gitana1

    gitana1 Verified Attorney

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    As a Catholic, I think the Church could spend its time on something more productive. People like that are desperate for attention. The best thing that could happen is if they were totally and completely ignored.

    If we knew the actual date that might be true, but we don't. Our calendar years are not based on his birth because we don't even know what month he was actually born in or year, except it wasn't in winter. December 25 was picked as that was the last day of the Roman pagan holiday of Saturnalia.

    Education is important. Maybe it is because I'm an attorney but I feel that accuracy in education and in facts is super important.

    And since the actual date is unknown and there is no consensus historically as to the actual, physical existence of Christ, I understand why, in a public school, a teacher might not allow that answer. And I say this as a Christian myself. Belief and fact can be two different things.
     
  16. Nova

    Nova Active Member

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    Oh, I agree with Salem, too. But it's a matter of opinion as to which energy is positive and which is negative. (Christianity has produced its share of both over the years, IMO. :))

    I think your niece should have simply substituted "The rise of Christianity" (and "The rise of Islam", as well, since the question was historical influence, not theological validity) and the teacher wouldn't have had any legitimate argument. (That's not to say the result wouldn't have been the same; some people get a little nutty trying to define separation of church and state. I agree with your niece: whatever one's belief system, nobody can deny the historical importance of Christianity. I think a strong case can be made that it is the most influential development of the past two millennia.)
     
  17. Sonya610

    Sonya610 Former Member

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    Regarding the calling forth of negative or positive energy, the Black Mass does neither. Satanists do not consider it to be a religious ritual, it is merely a parody of a religious ritual done for entertainments sake.

    When I read the headline my first thought was these must be the most boring Satanists on the planet if they hold their events at a civic center (which would ban nudity, orgies, etc...).


     
  18. Ruby

    Ruby New Member

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    AD comes from Latin Anno Domini meaning "In the year of Our Lord"
    BC comes from Before Christ
    http://www.mathsisfun.com/ad-bc.html

    There were many websites, I chose one a public school student may use.

    The Julian Calender has been based off of BC, AD.
    Now some use BCE Before Common Era, and CE Common Era.
    (The word Christian can replace the word Common)

    My niece did not put down Christmas as Jesus' birthday.
    She used the birth of Christ with the reason being the calender (a measurement of time and a way to track history).
    Which the life of, or times of Jesus does play a role. One would then think that the "birth of" would be an event.
    I still think it's sad she did not receive credit for that example, even though it was part of the assignment.
    To list 15 historical items/events that changed the earth/world - natural, a discovery, a person, an invention.
    I thought it was clever for a fifth grader to think of an every day item that's used world wide, and to break it down the way she did.
    I am not sure I can explain myself any better :seeya:
     
  19. hambirg

    hambirg New Member

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    You took the words right out of my mouth! This!
     
  20. Nova

    Nova Active Member

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    Ruby, there has been nothing wrong with your explanation, not even from your very first post.

    What some of us are saying is that the physical birth of Jesus cannot be proven through the historical record. It is entirely hearsay spread by others decades after Jesus' alleged death. No physical witness left us an account of the birth.

    On the other hand, Christianity as a belief system (whether theological or political) CAN be documented and so can its importance; that's why I suggested going with that.

    If I had been the teacher, I might have cautioned your niece against assuming sacred texts are historical records. (Would she also claim that Poseidon changed coastlines with his power to make volcanos erupt? Would she claim that Zeus and Ares won the Trojan War and gave Greek civilization hegemony over the Aegean world?)

    But I certainly would have given her credit.
     

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