GUILTY TX - Alanna Gallagher, 6, Saginaw, 1 July 2013 - #12

[bessie]

Yes, :+:MrTT:+:, thinking along similar lines is a main reason I was wondering about the HRD dog question.

You and I have both sort of been looking at the possibility that Alanna might not have died at TH's residence.

I'm inclined to agree with both of you, BW.

 

[CBTampa]

Thanks wasn't enough, but I still think it is odd. First he was shot in the head and then it was the chin. Then they wouldn't tell his mother his condition. It isn't any wonder that people thought he had been actually shot and killed. I just think the whole thing is strange.

 

[Midwestmama78]

Thanks wasn't enough, but I still think it is odd. First he was shot in the head and then it was the chin. Then they wouldn't tell his mother his condition. It isn't any wonder that people thought he had been actually shot and killed. I just think the whole thing is strange.

It does seem strange, but maybe the conflicting stories arose by hurried reporting in the heat of the moment.

 

[ArianeEmory]

For folks who think she wasn't killed in the Holder house, what details or motives are causing you to think that?

If he had walked somewhere with her, chances are better they would have been seen by witnesses or caught on the cameras. (I don't believe they cut through people's backyards.) We know his car didn't leave. So I can't figure out what scenario is being proposed. Accomplice shows up, they load a probably unwilling child into the accomplice's car, at much greater risk of discovery, drive to a second house/location, unload child from car (more risk of witnesses) then kill her there, then drop her body at another location? Meanwhile they've brought a bunch of stuff, including physical evidence from the home like dog hairs, to the kill site, and then brought all these supplies like red tape back? How does TH get home? In a car? Is that car on camera bringing him home?

I guess I'm failing to see the incentive versus far greater risk of exposure of taking her somewhere else. What makes people like that scenario better?

 

[Midwestmama78]

Yes, :+:MrTT:+:, thinking along similar lines is a main reason I was wondering about the HRD dog question.

You and I have both sort of been looking at the possibility that Alanna might not have died at TH's residence.

I am curious what leads you to this speculation.

 

[J1981]

This is a really positive article about the condition of the injured officer:

After hearing Lodatto had been shot, the mayor went straight to the hospital, where he found the same old Lodatto, he said.

"When I walked into his room, lots of people were around and he looked up at me and said, 'Hi mayor. What are you doing here?' That's him," Cluck said.

Cluck said Lodatto is in very positive spirits.

"That's the kind of individual he is -- he's a very positive person," he said. "This will be a temporary setback for him, and he'll be at it again."

http://m.nbcdfw.com/nbcdfw/pm_108123/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=7FauBqOJ

Also says he loves his job more than anything except his family.

 

[elmomom]

Totally o/t, apologies in advance.
I am suddenly getting all these targeted ads for assisted living. I think I must have gotten suddenly very old and infirm while reading WS.

Back on topic.
I just cannot fathom the reason to speculate that AG was taken somewhere and killed, rather than in TH's home, or garage. I hope we get those who think that way to speak up, I am really curious as to what I am missing!!

 

[human]

I'm inclined to agree with both of you, BW.

Why do you guys feel she did not die in the home?

Now I read everyone else's replies and they wonder as well.

 

[Backwoods]

For folks who think she wasn't killed in the Holder house, what details or motives are causing you to think that?

If he had walked somewhere with her, chances are better they would have been seen by witnesses or caught on the cameras. (I don't believe they cut through people's backyards.) We know his car didn't leave. So I can't figure out what scenario is being proposed. Accomplice shows up, they load a probably unwilling child into the accomplice's car, at much greater risk of discovery, drive to a second house/location, unload child from car (more risk of witnesses) then kill her there, then drop her body at another location? Meanwhile they've brought a bunch of stuff, including physical evidence from the home like dog hairs, to the kill site, and then brought all these supplies like red tape back? How does TH get home? In a car? Is that car on camera bringing him home?

I guess I'm failing to see the incentive versus far greater risk of exposure of taking her somewhere else. What makes people like that scenario better?

BBM: For starters, it is not so much that I think she wasn't but I thought earlier on that she might not have been, and I've not seen anything yet to convince me that it's not still a possibility.

All of the things like tarp, tape, toilet paper, etc. could have been brought by TH to another location -- either ahead of time, if this was a long-planned fantasy of his, or after he had Alanna stashed away somewhere, either bound or, who knows, just maybe by telling her "Wait here -- I'll be back with a surprise" -- horrid to think, I know, but we just don't know. If that tarp had been in his backyard, it easily could have been covered with dog hair, if their dogs shed anything like mine.

It's easy to assume that, because, as far as we know, Alanna was last seen in the neighbor's flowerbed, next door to TH's house, that he took her from there. But even that, we don't know for sure. They could have walked together somewhere, she could have headed somewhere else and he trailed her -- lots of possibilities. Yes, they likely would have been seen -- although possibly not! -- and we don't know for sure that something like this wasn't witnessed and just not released yet.

Also, if there was a vehicle other than TH's involved -- whether a 2nd person, or a vehicle he somehow, legitimately or not, had access to -- he could have transported her, alive, in that -- maybe after trailing her a bit, on the street.

The assault could have happened in a vehicle, in someone's yard, in a shed or garage he gained access to, in a vacant house -- probably some place closer to where Alanna was found.

All just theories -- not married to them, but just don't think it is certain yet that something other than him assaulting/killing her at his house can be ruled out.

 

[human]

She was gone for a lot of hours, so a car assault seems hard to believe

 

[Backwoods]

She was gone for a lot of hours, so a car assault seems hard to believe

Not what I think most likely, but possible. The assault could have been quick and death soon after she was taken. She could have been left in the vehicle for a while.

What about pools in the area/neighborhood? Could have been one in a yard where TH knew no one was home...? I keep thinking about the hot tub/pool chemicals taken in the search of Alanna's home. Yes, I know we're all thinking maybe straight-out-of-the-bottle bleach or other cleaner for the unknown liquid, but there could be another explanation.

 

[Txmedmom]

Yes, I know we're all thinking maybe straight-out-of-the-bottle bleach or other cleaner for the unknown liquid, but there could be another explanation.

Still I think "out of the bottle bleach" wouldn't be considered unknown. But does anyone know if they would classify it as unknown regardless as to what they thought it was until they tested it?

 

[bessie]

Links

Tyler Holder Capital Murder Arrest Warrant Affidavit

Search Warrant -- 6xx Babbling Brook Dr Residence

Search Warrant -- 2012 Kia Soul

Search Warrant -- Cell Phone

PDF's Attached

 

[Backwoods]

Still I think "out of the bottle bleach" wouldn't be considered unknown. But does anyone know if they would classify it as unknown regardless as to what they thought it was until they tested it?

bbm: Yes, I think that would happen. Maybe it smelled of chlorine but doubt they would just announce right off: "bleach!" until testing. The smell, or results of testing, probably might be what led to the interest in the hot tub/pool chemicals at Alanna's home. I think it's likely they know what it is by now, and probably have for a while.

 

[greenpalm]

For folks who think she wasn't killed in the Holder house, what details or motives are causing you to think that?

If he had walked somewhere with her, chances are better they would have been seen by witnesses or caught on the cameras. (I don't believe they cut through people's backyards.) We know his car didn't leave. So I can't figure out what scenario is being proposed. Accomplice shows up, they load a probably unwilling child into the accomplice's car, at much greater risk of discovery, drive to a second house/location, unload child from car (more risk of witnesses) then kill her there, then drop her body at another location? Meanwhile they've brought a bunch of stuff, including physical evidence from the home like dog hairs, to the kill site, and then brought all these supplies like red tape back? How does TH get home? In a car? Is that car on camera bringing him home?

I guess I'm failing to see the incentive versus far greater risk of exposure of taking her somewhere else. What makes people like that scenario better?

I'm confused by the idea of the murder being anywhere but his house too. I agree that we can't definitively rule it out, but I'm struggling to understand what his motivation would be to do it anywhere else.

The simplest, easiest, Occam's razor explanation is that he found her in his flower bed and got her into the house, and later disposed of her body. Whatever vehicle he used, possibly this Ford Edge to which he had a key, he could have pulled it into the garage to load her.

This scenario involves MUCH less risk of being seen.

I agree, we don't have certainty that it happened in Holder's home, but the preponderance of the evidence seems to have been there, and it's simply more complicated than it needs to be otherwise.

 

[Backwoods]

I'm confused by the idea of the murder being anywhere but his house too. I agree that we can't definitively rule it out, but I'm struggling to understand what his motivation would be to do it anywhere else.

The simplest, easiest, Occam's razor explanation is that he found her in his flower bed and got her into the house, and later disposed of her body. Whatever vehicle he used, possibly this Ford Edge to which he had a key, he could have pulled it into the garage to load her.

This scenario involves MUCH less risk of being seen.

I agree, we don't have certainty that it happened in Holder's home, but the preponderance of the evidence seems to have been there, and it's simply more complicated than it needs to be otherwise.

Fair warning: I'm often not an Occam's Razor sort of thinker! Which means, I'm wrong a lot of times -- but still, occasionally handy to have around. :blushing:

 

[ArianeEmory]

Greenpalm, yeah, that's what I mean. I don't mean to say that certain scenarios are impossible, I'm just not sure what details we've seen that make some people favor more complicated ones over what seems obvious/simpler.

(Maybe there's non-TOS details we just don't know yet. I don't tend to do a lot of off-the-record sleuthing (when I do I invariably find myself arguing with people on FB with my fake account this case finally caused me to make), so I do miss stuff.)

 

[manzana]

I'm confused by the idea of the murder being anywhere but his house too. I agree that we can't definitively rule it out, but I'm struggling to understand what his motivation would be to do it anywhere else.

The simplest, easiest, Occam's razor explanation is that he found her in his flower bed and got her into the house, and later disposed of her body. Whatever vehicle he used, possibly this Ford Edge to which he had a key, he could have pulled it into the garage to load her.

This scenario involves MUCH less risk of being seen.

I agree, we don't have certainty that it happened in Holder's home, but the preponderance of the evidence seems to have been there, and it's simply more complicated than it needs to be otherwise.

Home would be the last place I would think he would want to, leaving evidence in your own home, mom coming home early.

Not saying it did not happen there but I do think LE could at least declare it the crime scene without compromising anything.

 

[greenpalm]

Still I think "out of the bottle bleach" wouldn't be considered unknown. But does anyone know if they would classify it as unknown regardless as to what they thought it was until they tested it?

I was just talking about this to DH. I would imagine that they are trained not to make assumptions. I'm sure they know NOW what the liquid is, even if they didn't at the time. I would imagine that they'd have known what it was by the time they executed the search warrant at Alanna's home, and knowing what it was would explain why they might check the hot tub water. But as I recall, they took urine samples from her home too, right?

Just speculating… MOO

 

[Backwoods]

Greenpalm, yeah, that's what I mean. I don't mean to say that certain scenarios are impossible, I'm just not sure what details we've seen that make some people favor more complicated ones over what seems obvious/simpler.

(Maybe there's non-TOS details we just don't know yet. I don't tend to do a lot of off-the-record sleuthing (when I do I invariably find myself arguing with people on FB with my fake account this case finally caused me to make), so I do miss stuff.)

bbm: Speaking only for myself: No, not from non-TOS details, in my case, just my own convoluted thinking. (I don't Facebook, etc., at all, and hardly anybody ever sends me any juicy PMs, lol)